Jumping question

[Serenity087]

How can you teach a horse to jump upwards?

I just ask because Dorey's favourite height is 2ft3. Which at 15hh is very small.

I've seen her jump 3ft6, but it's a struggle.

If I were to want to teach her how to jump bigger (bear in mind I'd need to see it from the ground before I got on her!!) how could I do it?

Also how to teach respect for a fence? Dorey knows if she hits a pole it just falls down and thats the end of that. I daren't jump cross country fences because they don't fall down!

I'm no jumper, so I probably won't, but I'm curious to how it would be done.

 

[xspiralx]

Perfect reason to go xc. After she's careless with her legs once or twice over a solid fence she'll soon start being more careful! Keep it small obviously.

She's not really built to jump, so I wouldn't push her to jump bigger if she doesn't enjoy it. But you can build it up by jumping more, getting her fitter and stronger, really getting a good quality powerful canter to give her the best chance to jump well.

 

[Serenity087]

Interesting you say she isn't built to jump, Spiral - our cob Zak used to ace 4ft plus and he was smaller and much heavier... he litrelly flew!

It's not a case she doesn't enjoy it, she just has a dangly leg which comes into play more and more as the jumps get bigger. 2ft3 and she's a very tidy little jumper. 3ft and we end up with legs all over the place.

I'd just presumed it was down to lack of training?

It's funny how you're the first to reply, I remember how easy it was to point your horse at a jump and clear 3ft without effort and wonder why mine isn't half as easy to jump!

ETA: It terrifies me the thought of doing XC on her when I can't trust she'll clear it... I don't want to hurt her or myself in the process!!

 

[teddyt]

It's not a case she doesn't enjoy it, she just has a dangly leg which comes into play more and more as the jumps get bigger. 2ft3 and she's a very tidy little jumper. 3ft and we end up with legs all over the place.

Higher jumps need more effort. Therefore if your horse has a weaker limb it will be more likely to dangle over bigger jumps because they require more effort.

Im guessing from spirals post that she is a cob/heavier type? They arent really built to jump and comparing her to another horse may not be appropriate- they are all individuals. Maybe 3ft is pushing her ability?

In general though, practice builds strength and suppleness, which will improve technique.

 

[Serenity087]

All my horses have been cobs, Dorey is one of our lightweights. Zak was actually a true to type heavyweight traditional cob!

He used to ODE as well as showjump... you could feel the ground shake!! (downside, EVERYONE used to have to come watch the little fat coloured thing jump... so embarrasing!)

 

[xspiralx]

I'd imagine he was the exception rather than the rule though for a chunky cob.

If you get her stronger and really work on her strength and power in canter, and do lots of grids and exercises to make her think, then she'll get better and be able to jump higher more easily.

For an athletic or scopey horse then 3ft is seriously easy - Dorey will be able to clear it, but it won't be as easy or natural for her - you'll have to work that much harder.

FWIW, Paris wasn't the ideal build for a showjumper whatsoever - she wasn't terribly well built or scopey - but she really used herself properly, and that was the only reason she could jump round 1.10 courses.

I ride another horse who has the most scope I've ever felt - yet he struggles to jump clear around a 1m course, because he throws himself miles in the air but he has the technique of a camel and dangles his legs. When he pulls it together he'll be amazing but at the moment none of his ability helps him out.

So training can really do a lot - although I would say that if she's not showing a real aptitude for the job its never going to be her forte.

 

[Serenity087]

No, it won't be. I accepted that a long time ago.

However I'd like to go to shows over the summer and it doesn't feel quite right when you have a 15hh cob up against a bunch of 11hh ponies

Once upon a time I used to jump 3ft on a dartmoor (all the poise and elegance of rotting fish, but he'd clear them!). Seems ironic that the bigger my horse, the smaller my jumps

Anyway, thanks Spiral, I'll certainly work on her canter, which is only just starting to come together anyway, and see what happens

 

[JFTDWS]

I'd imagine he was the exception rather than the rule though for a chunky cob.

Although cobs are unlikely to take the upper levels of the jumping world by storm, I would hardly call this sort of competition on a cob exceptional - there are plenty of us out there competing successfully over reasonable unaffiliated heights on heavyweight cobs. I have a friend who used to BE90 / 100 her 14,2 cob - now he was pretty exceptional. You also have to normalise for the fact that so many cobs dont have the opportunity to express their skill over jumps because they're hindered by their novice owners... My veteran HW is still jumping 85cm TB-type classes, and he has his own weight in hair to get over the jumps too!

 

[xspiralx]

Although cobs are unlikely to take the upper levels of the jumping world by storm, I would hardly call this sort of competition on a cob exceptional - there are plenty of us out there competing successfully over reasonable unaffiliated heights on heavyweight cobs. I have a friend who used to BE90 / 100 her 14,2 cob - now he was pretty exceptional. You also have to normalise for the fact that so many cobs dont have the opportunity to express their skill over jumps because they're hindered by their novice owners... My veteran HW is still jumping 85cm TB-type classes, and he has his own weight in hair to get over the jumps too!

Personally I would say that clearing 4ft with ease [Serenity's example] would be an exception.

Of course most cobs are capable of jumping round a 3ft course - but my point is that it generally won't be as natural or easy for them to do as a TB or a WB, as they're built for pulling rather than jumping - I refer of course to proper stocky cobs, as opposed to Welshies or similarly built sporty cobs.

 

[JFTDWS]

Personally I would say that clearing 4ft with ease [Serenity's example] would be an exception.

Of course most cobs are capable of jumping round a 3ft course -

I would say this is a contradiction in itself - most horses capable of clearing a 3ft course could clear a single 4ft fence with relative ease. And again I can think of a dozen heavyweight cob examples, my lad being just one.

I do agree with you that it is not as easy for them as for a finer horse, it would be absurd to dispute that. I just disagree with your branding of this horse as exceptional. I also disagree with the idea that TBs/WB are "built" for jumping and cobs are "built" for dressage. They're actually built to live in the wild as horses doing neither. They're selectively bred to have traits desirable for jumping / pulling, but that is somewhat a different matter. That's pedantic though...

 

[ilovecobs]

Take her XC and use heavy poles with either no boots or open fronted ones, also put the jumps bigger (but don't risk knocking her confidence) I have to disagree as i'v recently started jumping my cob (well we did before but just over small grids.) And before I was of the thinking that her jumping 3 foot would look a little like a large sack of spuds being hurled over but she does it with surprising ease. Shes changed my mind about her, i'v always said to my dad 'oh, she doesn't jump' but this was most probably because id only ever given her the opportunity to jump 2 foot grids and she found this a bit boring.

Then on the other hand my cob isn't a very stocky one, shes a lw-maxi, 50%ID 25%TB 25%gypsy cob.

 

[xspiralx]

I would say this is a contradiction in itself - most horses capable of clearing a 3ft course could clear a single 4ft fence with relative ease. And again I can think of a dozen heavyweight cob examples, my lad being just one.

I do agree with you that it is not as easy for them as for a finer horse, it would be absurd to dispute that. I just disagree with your branding of this horse as exceptional. I also disagree with the idea that TBs/WB are "built" for jumping and cobs are "built" for dressage. They're actually built to live in the wild as horses doing neither. They're selectively bred to have traits desirable for jumping / pulling, but that is somewhat a different matter. That's pedantic though...

A dozen examples? - to me that is still an exception. If you can think of 12 HW cob examples that ping over 4ft and pop round 90cm courses - I can probably only think of 12 tb/wb types that couldn't do that.

Also Serenity didn't say 'a single fence at 4ft' - she said he would "ace 4ft" and I take that to mean capable of a course at that height.

Also I didn't say dressage - I said pulling! Yes obviously horses used to live in the wild doing nothing - that is irrelevant. Humans have spent hundreds of years selectively breeding horses to do different jobs. Chunky cobs were bred to be able to pull heavy loads - physically they are not built to be sports horses. That doesn't mean that some won't be brilliant at jumping or dressage - but simply that generally, they will find it more difficult than a sports horse.

 

[JFTDWS]

A dozen examples? - to me that is still an exception. If you can think of 12 HW cob examples that ping over 4ft and pop round 90cm courses - I can probably only think of 12 tb/wb types that couldn't do that.

Also Serenity didn't say 'a single fence at 4ft' - she said he would "ace 4ft" and I take that to mean capable of a course at that height.

Also I didn't say dressage - I said pulling! Yes obviously horses used to live in the wild doing nothing - that is irrelevant. Humans have spent hundreds of years selectively breeding horses to do different jobs. Chunky cobs were bred to be able to pull heavy loads - physically they are not built to be sports horses. That doesn't mean that some won't be brilliant at jumping or dressage - but simply that generally, they will find it more difficult than a sports horse.

firstly, I say a dozen cobs who could do that - I can only think of a couple who couldn't, and mostly that is because they are owned by novices who don't do them any favours - so I maintain it is not the exception, merely that people aren't used to seeing it for a variety of reasons.

I didn't interpret Serenity's post that way, but yes, it is open to debate as to what she meant...

I apologise, dressage was clearly some form of freudian slip, not a clue why that popped out of my brain, obviously I was aiming for pull. The point is that they were not built to pull, nor were TBs built to jump - it's a technicality and a terminology point I'm making - they were bred to pull / jump etc - and that is a significant difference. And again, I point out that I've already said that it is more difficult for them than TBs.

The reason I'm rambling on about this is because I don't agree with the idea that Serenity's mare is limited to 2ft3 by her type, or with the idea that because she is a cob she won't hack higher classes (because only exceptional cobs can do them ). The chances are, Dorey needs to be taught to jump with better form, to increase her fitness and develop muscles to make it easier for her, to be given more help / less hinderance from her rider (I have no idea how well Serenity rides, I'm not being critical, but it will affect Dorey's apparent ability) - rather than being written off as unable to do it...

 

[xspiralx]

And if you read my advice to Serenity, you'll see that I said she'll be fine to jump higher, but she will just need to put that much more effort into working on the quality of her canter and her strength, as it doesn't come naturally to her [evidential by the fact that she currently struggles above 2ft3.]

I never said she should be limited to 2ft3.

 

[JFTDWS]

I'm aware of what you have said, it's the somewhat dismissive way you have approached the issue in your replies that I felt needed commenting on... Regardless, I've made my point, I think.

 

[xspiralx]

I'm aware of what you have said, it's the somewhat dismissive way you have approached the issue in your replies that I felt needed commenting on... Regardless, I've made my point, I think.

Ah okay - I'm sorry that I didn't sugar coat my opinion enough for you - I was actually just trying to have a rational discussion with the OP, who didn't seem offended by my advice

 

[Serenity087]

Just to help clear some speculation, I don't think Zak ever competed much above 3.6ft as eventually his bolshy attitude kicked in and he decided he knew best - which he didn't - and anything above 3ft started to get dangerous for him and rider.

I can't jump. I often struggle to get Dorey over 2ft nicely. I used to once upon a time, but now I'm just rubbish at it.

Zak, for what he used to do, was an exception. He would go to an ODE and come 2nd out of 30 warmbloods. Thats just not normal as a cob.
Since he retired from trying to break his neck with wooden poles, I mean showjumping, he's kept up his dressage and last we heard was beating his new owners two dressage WBs at competition...

Dorey is actually a very nice hacking pony. She can go for hours. Yes, she's capable of decent dressage and yes she can pelt her way around a small course of jumps, but the only thing she is exceptional at is not getting tired!!

Which is why, although I disagree with Spiral that build is a limiting factor all of the time, I agree with Spiral in that with Dorey, her build probably does limit her.

However, no more than her rider or her rubbish canter. So we shall see.