Jumping - Rider Technique Poll - I want your opinions

[Ziggy_]

After a seriously confusing lesson from my instructor, I'm looking for opinions on jumping and I want to hear opinions from different riders at different levels.

I'm of the opinion that its my job to show my horse what she is jumping and approach at a suitable speed and angle at which she can jump it. Everything else, from seeing a stride to choosing the take off point is up to her. I keep a rein contact and keep my leg there to support her but the actual jumping is her job.

I'm sure John Whitaker would disagree with this and argue that you should be in control of the exact point at which your horse takes off. So I want to know at what level does show jumping really become technical to the point where you have to know exactly what you are doing and be in total control of the horse, and is eventing any different?

I want to hear from riders who compete at any level from clear round upwards

 

[arwenplusone]

IMO it is my job to get the horse to the fence on a good line in a collected canter with sufficient impulsion. The actual jumping of the fence is up to him. This was taught to me (albeit a few years ago now) by the current chef d'equipe for Germany. I'm not going to argue with him!

 

[Madam_max]

Ohhh get you.

 

[arwenplusone]

lol. he did also have me cantering with my knee on the ground (motorbike style) though I suspect that may have just been for his own amusement....

 

[dieseldog]

I think you can get away with the point and kick approach up to Newcomers, after that you need to be a bit more than a passenger.

A bit of advice, if you are an average amateur rider never buy a pro's horse as they are so used to being told what to do that when we have 'amateur moments' and can't see a stride they haven't a clue what to do.

 

[Weezy]

Most important thing is an established canter. You do your utmost until the last 3 strides then you leave it to your horse. Therefore you have to be a canny and exact rider and read your lines, pace and rhythm throughout the round and be delicate enough to make minute changes as and when is needed without altering that.

 

[Hanz]

I think rhythm must stay the same and you must keep a contact with your leg on right until he takes off.

My own horse would take me over a 6ft hedge at a gallop quite easily, he would take me to and over the fence even when I pointed him at it from 100 yards back! But another I ride has to be kept straight, rounded and balanced all the way into the fence, with plenty of encouragement, it all depends on the horse, some need to be asked, some need to be told, I think it comes with experience of riding different horses. (Not that I am an 'experienced' rider in any shape or form!)

 

[PapaFrita]

What Weezy said.

 

[moneypit1]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you can get away with the point and kick approach up to Newcomers, after that you need to be a bit more than a passenger.

A bit of advice, if you are an average amateur rider never buy a pro's horse as they are so used to being told what to do that when we have 'amateur moments' and can't see a stride they haven't a clue what to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

I could not agree more! Tell me about it! xx

 

[Kate260881]

I was always taught that you need to have your canter well established and set the horse up 3 strides ahead, that last bit should be so well set up that you can let the horse get on with it without interferring. Also, the danger with interferring with those last 3 strides is that of course the horse can't see the jump when its actually jumping it so if you're wrong the horse cannot correct. Obviously there are occassional moments when this isn't true but that is how I 'try' to ride all my fences. Try being the operative word

 

[Kate260881]

Sorry, just wanted to add as well, that if you have set the horse up properly then technically you could tick both of those boxes as a correct set up means you do know exactly what the horse will be doing and therefore are prepared to 'jump in' if needed.

 

[ann-jen]

I compete at British Novice/Discovery level so 3' - 3'3ish and think that up to that point you can get away with not being totally accurate but anything bigger than that you do have to set them up a lot more. I feel like I should be voting for something in between your 2 options! My instructor wants me to be able to see the stride we are going on from the corner as we turn into the jump and make any adjustments to the canter we need from that far back and then commit to either a forward or shorter stride from there but what ever decision I make not to change my mind in front of the fence.

so I guess I'm agreeing with the others above that the last few strides are down to the horse - but if I've done my job correctly then the last 3 strides should be spot on for the horse anyway. (I now just need to perfect that last statement!!!)

 

[Gorgeous George]

ok I only jump teeny weeny fence, but I am just relearning , but so far I have been told don't override into the fence let it come to you. So I try to get the canter and the line right, but hey these jumps are so small George could step over them with his eyes shut!!

 

[Equus Leather]

I come at it from an eventing pov I guess. I've been taught that the prep is done by the rider, but the horse needs to learn to get himself over the fence. You want something that can look after itself if you're having a muppet mooment.

 

[arwenplusone]

[ QUOTE ]
I think you can get away with the point and kick approach up to Newcomers, after that you need to be a bit more than a passenger.

A bit of advice, if you are an average amateur rider never buy a pro's horse as they are so used to being told what to do that when we have 'amateur moments' and can't see a stride they haven't a clue what to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that advice to me or to the OP? Either way I totally agree with this but I do like the horse to be able to see the stride without my having to tell it what to do right up to the fence. If the horse is set up correctly you should not need to interfere in any way.

 

[bexandspooky]

Unless you are going to get off, pick the horse up and throw him over the jump, he is gonna need to be able to work it out for himself, therefore let him!!

IMO when people start interfering with their horses, and confusing the issue, that is when problems start - all you should need to do is make it clear what you want out of him i.e point horse at fence and approach at a controlled and forward pace, and horse should do the fence jumping part

 

[Ziggy_]

Interesting bunch of opinions, thanks everyone.

With my horse coming from an eventing background she tends to work everything out for herself and hates interference as she knows that I don't really know what I'm doing!!

The other day my instructor was trying to teach me how to take control and set the horse up, and while I appreciate that it takes a long time to perfect, by halfway through the lesson I could feel myself losing confidence in my ability to get anything right and my horse thinking ''of course I'm not going to listen to you because I can do a better job on my own!!''

Hence days of confusion and numerous posts on the subject.

 

[sugarnspice]

I've been very lucky with my lad in that I pretty much learned to jump on him and jumping is what he is good at

. I tend to just get his impulsion, find the fence and go with him! Sometimes I have to pull his head up if he decides it's all to exciting and wants to buck

.
He is very good at sorting himself out. There is the most fantastic picture of us XCing at camp. I was told to point him at an angle to a double so then we could miss the second element as it was pretty big. I went to do just that, but he decided to just take us over the second bit instead, did it all himself, I just sat there lol!

 

[dieseldog]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think you can get away with the point and kick approach up to Newcomers, after that you need to be a bit more than a passenger.

A bit of advice, if you are an average amateur rider never buy a pro's horse as they are so used to being told what to do that when we have 'amateur moments' and can't see a stride they haven't a clue what to do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Was that advice to me or to the OP? Either way I totally agree with this but I do like the horse to be able to see the stride without my having to tell it what to do right up to the fence. If the horse is set up correctly you should not need to interfere in any way.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, just QR

You never strike me as being an amateur.

I made the mistake of buying an ex grade A ridden by a pro - it took me a year to get the hang of her and I had some very special falls, she scared me witless and by the time I could actually ride her she had to be retired as she had ringbone. I managed to jump her in one class where everything went perfect.

 

[MizElz]

When we got Ellie, I could not see a stride at all. I didnt even know what it meant - pony club ethos was very much point and kick, the idea being that the pony would (should?) jump if the rider was positive. Fortunately with Ellie, that did work to a certain degree, as she is quite clever in terms of seeing a stride. However, as we progressed up the levels, the need to ride as opposed to be carried became far, far clearer. At one point, my instructor put me on his youngster to show me what it was like to ride a horse that actually needs to be placed, and that taught me a hell of a lot - Wolfie would jump anything if you had him right, but if he was even so much as a half stride off a fence, he'd dump you straight over his head. Two bruised shins later, I was able to get back on Ellie and actually ride her to a fence, rather than just push her at it, if you know what I mean? And that was the difference between us being able to whizz round a 75cm Trailblazers course when I first got her, and to actually jump accurately around a 1.20 course two years later.

Not that that means anything now, of course. I couldnt see a stride if my life depended on it

 

[lannerch]

why does everyone worry so much about seeing a stride. anything up to 1.2m then a horse with scope should be able to jump without prescision placing as long as the engine is going.

geoff billingtons golden words of advice when aproaching a fence. don't panic, keep the rhythm stay straight.

the rest is up to the horse

 

[MizElz]

[ QUOTE ]
why does everyone worry so much about seeing a stride. anything up to 1.2m then a horse with scope should be able to jump without prescision placing as long as the engine is going.

geoff billingtons golden words of advice when aproaching a fence. don't panic, keep the rhythm stay straight.

the rest is up to the horse

[/ QUOTE ]

What about the horses without much scope, whose riders would still like them to be able to jump a decent round? What about horses who are underconfident, and need placing? What about a young horse, for whom a simple mistake on take off could cause it to forever have demons on the approach to a fence?
Yes, I agree that it *should* be up to the horse, but it doesnt always work like that. Hoping for the best does not always pay off!

 

[blackcob]

[ QUOTE ]
I was always taught that you need to have your canter well established and set the horse up 3 strides ahead, that last bit should be so well set up that you can let the horse get on with it without interferring. Also, the danger with interferring with those last 3 strides is that of course the horse can't see the jump when its actually jumping it so if you're wrong the horse cannot correct. Obviously there are occassional moments when this isn't true but that is how I 'try' to ride all my fences. Try being the operative word

[/ QUOTE ]

Ditto this, I was always told to never interfere in the last few strides as a good horse will have it all worked out in his head already, providing you set him up correctly in the first place. Legs on and maintain a contact, obviously, as dropping the reins at the last minute will lose a horse's confidence, but no actual fiddling at all. You should have done that three strides earlier

 

[redmerl]

Ziggy101-snap!

My neddy has done eventing and SJ but XC is definatly his 'thing'.

My old horse was SJer and I keep trying to ride the new one like the old one-it doesn't work.

He is more experianced (and just better than me), so best to just let him do his thing. My instructor keeps telling me to leave him alone.

 

[lannerch]

[ QUOTE ]


What about the horses without much scope, whose riders would still like them to be able to jump a decent round? What about horses who are underconfident, and need placing? What about a young horse, for whom a simple mistake on take off could cause it to forever have demons on the approach to a fence?
Yes, I agree that it *should* be up to the horse, but it doesnt always work like that. Hoping for the best does not always pay off!

[/ QUOTE ]

The horses without much scope, well then the same applies but over smaller jumps, if the rider really wants to jump out of their scope then they need a scopier horse!

the unconfident horse the same applies but only tiny jumps and grids at first to build up there confidence.

The young horse the same applies but obviously starting small and also with grids, the horse has to learn to jump for itself, it has to learn to place itself and get out of trouble by itself, as when the jumps get big, and you help it you will never get this right 100% of the time. (unless your name is john whittaker )

You never however leave it and hope for the best,
Your job is the approach,the rhythm the length of stride and the line. It is the horses job is to jump

 

[lannerch]

[ QUOTE ]
IMO it is my job to get the horse to the fence on a good line in a collected canter with sufficient impulsion. The actual jumping of the fence is up to him. This was taught to me (albeit a few years ago now) by the current chef d'equipe for Germany. I'm not going to argue with him!

[/ QUOTE ]

agree totally, we have had the same instructor

 

[suzysparkle]

Ask yourself this, who jumps the jump, you or the Horse? There's the answer.

In my opinion Horses aren't blind, and they have a far more attuned survival skill than a human does. I do think that it's our job to regulate the pace (ie if it's a drop, or there's a sharp turn afterwards). It also depends on the discipline and the height. I always think it should be a partnership, but that the jump belongs to the Horse and that the rythmn belongs to the rider.