Jumping the over enthusiastic horse?

wellsat

wellsat

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Have managed to get the rest of the pictures from the Dag Albert Clinic on Saturday and some of them are a little:eek: Anyone who has any tips on how to sit a horse that insists on giving every jump a healthy clearance would be great. OH looked at the pictures and said "...but I thought you were supposed to lean forwards over jumps?!"

Getting it right

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Giving it some space

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Scopy but not quite what I was going for!
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Thanks, I'm quite happy jumping him higher but the rest of my group for the clinic were nervous nellies so even though I'd asked to be in the 90 group they were more like 75 - 80cm. If I ever do another clinic at Eland I shall be very clear on the phone about what I want to be jumping.
 
grid work!! I know cos that's how micah jumps if you don't keep doing grid work. Luckily he is not as big as your lad so it doesn't look quite as bad:D
 
Lol, thanks soulfull. How often do you do grids? I hadn't done any for a while as had been working on getting nice, balanced turns around a course.
 
Lol! He is so eager.....I love his little face, he's got this determined expression like a kid saying "I know mum! I can do it myself"!!

Grids and gymnastics with carefully set striding, lots of bounces. Insist that he mind you and wait for the first fence. Trot in easy and slow, a nice little jog and if he builds going through, the bounces will back him off. Also try setting a pole or cavaletti half a stride (bounce) after the fences on course it should engage his brain, make him have to think and plan his take off distance, backing him off a bit. He'll figure it out, he looks keen.
 
I've got a horse who is disturbingly enthused by jumping. If he doesn't think the jumps are high enough, he just jumps the height he thinks they *should* be. What works for him is lots of complicated fences, like grids with slightly off striding (he's a very small horse with a short stride, so it helps for competing anyway), or bounces, or placing poles on both sides of a fence as he really has to think about what he's doing rather than just leaping wildly into space.

Even poles are exciting in his world.

Normal trot

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Trotting pole trot (and yes, he seems to have lost a hind leg in his excitement)

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And....well...yes...

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(This photo was on an angle, rather than the jump)

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I hoped he'd grow out of it but...erm...he's 16 now :rolleyes:
 
Wellsat he looks excatly like my black beast!
I'd liked to say (as CB did) they get better with age but they don't! But I'd much rather have them enjoying it and wanting to do it and please me than having to kick and push the whole time.
As others have said ALWAYS change what you are doing, never just jump one fence/grid/line the same over and over. Change the fences every single time (even if you just angle it, turn in tight, jump different order etc) so they learn they have to almost pretend to listen to you so they go in the right direction!
Good luck :D
 
This will sound contradictory, but lean forward as you would with any other horse, make sure you have the elastic giving contact. When you are on your way into, over and after the jump, make sure you are actually using your legs.
E.G. Canter circles. When you have a nice canter established divert your canter to approach the jump. If he rushes, circle, only if it wont involve violent pulling away from tehe fence obv. Whilst circling, you are using your legs to steer, or should be. Continue using your legs to steer so you are landing and continuing your circle so to speak. This means you're not dropping the support for your horse when jumping and so he should remain between hand and leg.
It may take a few goes, but it looks to me in the photos that you are reacting to his jumping by restricting him which is a vicious circle.
 
Oh and treat every jump as training, that means if he jumps overexuberantly, make sure your legs are doing most of the steering, not the hand,s, and as soon as you land direct him in a circle (or half circle, or even just change of direction!) even if in competition (obv not important ones..) He will then learnt to be waiting more for your opinion on what's next!
 
I've just acquired the ride on one of these. For all the horses that I've jumped over the years this is a new experience as I'm used to having to use some leg.
This horse has huge scope (though not brilliant technique - he just jumps bigger and bigger without improving his legs). We know that he'll pop a 1.20 oxer from one stride so there's no point on working over big fences. I'm sticking to ~1m and lots of exercises. He's never allowed to run at a fence - I circle and circle and circle in front of the fence then let him pop when he least expects it. I'm jumping a lot from trot and my current favourite exercise is a pole on the floor, 3 (of my) strides to a 1m upright and another 3 strides to a pole on the floor. The landing pole makes them back off a little bit and condense the jump. I did have to come to this from trot the first few times as there was a real concern that he'd jump the lot in one go. Lines of canter poles in front of a fence set at a slightly shortened distance keep him from charging as well.

I sympathise with your position worries - the first time I jumped this horse I seriously thought I was going into orbit! I'm extra sure to keep my lower leg underneath me and supporting and my upper body a little more 'up' than usual. The difficult bit is giving with my hands just before take-off. Every instinct says to keep pulling!

The one thing I'm adamant I'll do is leave him in a snaffle - the previous jockey had him in a 3 ring gag and I think that just made him tuck his chin in, duck the contact and rush more.
 
SusieT said:
Oh and treat every jump as training, that means if he jumps overexuberantly, make sure your legs are doing most of the steering, not the hand,s, and as soon as you land direct him in a circle (or half circle, or even just change of direction!) even if in competition (obv not important ones..) He will then learnt to be waiting more for your opinion on what's next!
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Thanks Susie T. Thats very much what I'm trying to do with him, it was a real breakthrough when I began using a lot more leg and holding him firmly in and out of the jump, believe it or not we're jumping alot better than we were a few weeks ago!

GB - I'm incredibly aware that he's got a strong bit in and I don't like myself for doing it but unfortunately it is necessary for now as he's rude and gobby without it. I'm doing it with the support of my trainer and it should hopefully be a temporary measure. The problem is that he sticks his head in the air and charges if its not there. With it in he knows that its there and I can leave my hands alone and ride him off my seat. A bit like horses that behave if they can see you carrying a whip even if you never have to use it. If you ever find yourselves in sunny Derbyshire and would like a sit I'd love to see if a more experienced rider can manage without....;):D
 
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Lol at Clairebeanz pictures, G has that attitude to trotting poles as well! You give me hope though, you've clearly learned to sit it!
 
wellsat said:
GB - I'm incredibly aware that he's got a strong bit in and I don't like myself for doing it but unfortunately it is necessary for now as he's rude and gobby without it. I'm doing it with the support of my trainer and it should hopefully be a temporary measure. The problem is that he sticks his head in the air and charges if its not there. With it in he knows that its there and I can leave my hands alone and ride him off my seat. A bit like horses that behave if they can see you carrying a whip even if you never have to use it. If you ever find yourselves in sunny Derbyshire and would like a sit I'd love to see if a more experienced rider can manage without....;):D
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My apologies - I was at work when I wrote my reply and couldn't see the pictures. Tbh now I can see them I still can't tell what bit you're using. So my bit comment had no relevance to whatever you're using and was just part of the story about the horse I'm riding. I know that a stronger bit isn't the answer for my horse but I also know that every horse is different so if you need something else then that may well be the correct answer for your horse. I hope the rest of my ideas were more useful!
 
Don't worry GB, I wasn't offended, hope my post didn't come across shirty!

Tonight I was just working on doing flatwork schooling around jumps so that he learns that we can circle nicely in front and around without going "Ooh, jump!", sticking his ears up my nose and running.
 
My horse can be like yours lol! Just look at the pic on the far left of my sig.

Cutting his food helped! It got to the point where he was so excited I couldn't jump! He was leaping 6ft over a pole squealing and thinking he was wonderful lol. Cut his food right back and bingo normal quiet horse again :). He can still be like it at shows but it's enthusiasm and I put it down to greeness. Once we get going he settles and jumps
normally. I just try to work him through it.

I can sympathise with the position thing as I'm the same, it's hard to give too much over the fence when you are worried about launching skyward again on landing ;). I find I have to be careful not too hold on to him too much between fences when he's like that and to make sure I keep him moving forwards as it helps to settle him and make his jumps smoother.

He looks a lovely fun horse though, it's nice that he is so confident and enjoying himself :)
 
wellsat said:
Don't worry GB, I wasn't offended, hope my post didn't come across shirty!

Tonight I was just working on doing flatwork schooling around jumps so that he learns that we can circle nicely in front and around without going "Ooh, jump!", sticking his ears up my nose and running.
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No offence taken!

The horse I'm riding has a really big canter and really flicks his back end up on every stride. I decided this morning that I'd have to spend some time without stirrups getting used to it. So I was just riding the counter-canter end of a figure-of-8 in my dressage saddle without stirrups when the horse locked onto a fence in the arena. It's maybe just as well you weren't there as my language was wholly unsuitable for 7am! :eek:
 
Lol, GB, I hate that "locked on" feeling. Last time I did a grid with G we went over three jumps nicely coming down the long side and he clearly thought the arena fence was part of the grid as I felt him lock on to the end. I screamed a very loud "NOOOOO!" and swerved him to the right, there was no way we were jumping 4ft over the fence, the hedge behind it and down a drop into the field behind, all in the dark. :D
 
wellsat said:
Lol at Clairebeanz pictures, G has that attitude to trotting poles as well! You give me hope though, you've clearly learned to sit it!
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By sit, I hope you mean "cling on for dear life, because I couldn't stop if I wanted to"? That's certainly what it feels like! With Tally, I've gotten to the point where I just go with it.

With regards bitting, Tally used to have a pelham in to try and curb some of his over-enthusiasm. It worked until he was back in the rhythm (he'd had two years sitting in a paddock, jumping the paddock fences when he got bored!), but he did get frustrated with it, so I eventually downgraded to a snaffle.

One thing that helped with giving over fences might be using an automatic vs crest release. I'm slowly working on my automatic release (or was, before my lovely horse went lame for months on end!) because that way I have more control on landing. It does mean I have mysteriously let go of the reins when things go really wrong :o

This locked on feeling?

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Oh I've got one of those! He was a serious steeplechaser and took a long time to calm down - thought he knew better! Lots of grid work and yes, jumps possibly need to be cranked up as they are over confident. To start with I thought he had no self preservation but it was just what he had been taught.

Also found that if you gave him something to really think about he was very sensible - once did an exercise with an upright with 3 poles in a V and W arrangement - hard to explain but had one pole resting at 1/3rds across, 2nd pole forming the 2nd part of V shape, then 3rd going from 2/3rds across to the end of jump. First time you jumped it you aimed for the 1/3rd part of jump, so was like the funnel exercise, then you jumped it so that horse did a bounce within the V shape. I was slightly concerned as thought my horse would take the V on as a placing pole and not get himself within the V but he did it brilliantly. Also low spread cross poles are good - anything that makes them think.

I had to learn to be able to sit quietly and wait for the fence - if you took a more forward position he took it as encouragement to go faster and flatter. I did have to use a stronger bit for a while - loved hackamore at home but could not control him at comps, found out he would tolerate a cheltenham gag, and this worked enough so we could finally get back to a snaffle.

I learnt loads from this horse but unfortunately everything I have ridden since has been the exact opposite and it took me ages to adjust my riding to suit.
 
clairebearnz said:
One thing that helped with giving over fences might be using an automatic vs crest release. I'm slowly working on my automatic release (or was, before my lovely horse went lame for months on end!) because that way I have more control on landing. It does mean I have mysteriously let go of the reins when things go really wrong :o
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Without wanting to sound like an idiot, can you explain what this is?
 
I think that if you want to get him to slow down a bit and take the jumps a little steadier, perhaps trying jumps from a walk and trot. It might sound odd to jump from a walk, but it shows the horse that its nothing to get excited about.
When you canter, this will raise the horses adrenaline. so he is more likely to get excitable. If you dont want him to pull you into jumps, its important that he learns that he doesnt jump flat out and pulling. you want to teach him to really listen to you, so when you say go he goes, and when you say stop, he stops.
So by slowing things down for him, he can listen better, stay calmer and more in control. only when he will stay in walk or trot on a relaxed rein would i ever try to canter him over it.

Try lots of transitions, trot to halt, canter to walk/halt, so that he is really intune with you. When jumping in trot, stay on a small circle, and as soon as you jump, ask him to halt and then walk off nice and relaxed. The being relaxed is important because he will be able to listen to you better than if hes all excited and just wants to get over the jump. So keep it slow and simple. I like to teach all my horses to jump on a loose rein so that they never learn to pull. If they go to fast, i bend to a stop and disengage the hindquarteres. This way i turn the engine off without pulling on the horses head.
When cantering over the jump, you should be able to come back to a walk immediately without having to pull on his head or him pulling against you.
 
wellsat said:
Thanks Susie T. Thats very much what I'm trying to do with him, it was a real breakthrough when I began using a lot more leg and holding him firmly in and out of the jump, believe it or not we're jumping alot better than we were a few weeks ago!

GB - I'm incredibly aware that he's got a strong bit in and I don't like myself for doing it but unfortunately it is necessary for now as he's rude and gobby without it. I'm doing it with the support of my trainer and it should hopefully be a temporary measure. The problem is that he sticks his head in the air and charges if its not there. With it in he knows that its there and I can leave my hands alone and ride him off my seat. A bit like horses that behave if they can see you carrying a whip even if you never have to use it. If you ever find yourselves in sunny Derbyshire and would like a sit I'd love to see if a more experienced rider can manage without....;):D
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You say you dont like using the strong bit on him? Then why use it. I dont believe any horse NEEDS a strong bit, because its not the tools we use, but how we use them. I would love to come ride this horse for you, and have him jumping in a rope halter. But as i live in NI, that might be hard lol.
Like i said previously, keep it quiet and dont pull on him. If you pull him, he will pull back. There is a trend to use strong bits on horses because people dont know how to train the horse to not pull. So to solve this problem, you have to teach the horse not to pull, by not pulling him. If horses were not taught to pull, we wouldnt need to use strong bits on our horses. Or bits full stop. Best of luck with him.
 
My horse gets very fresh jumping esp SJ & hunting, i've spent lots of time working on his canter, getting him balanced & on his hindquarters, combined with lots of grids & figure of 8 related distances it's really got him thinking, i also need to use far more leg than i previously had, to really drive him forward into the contact. when i 1st had him he was so keen i was without really realising, letting him just run through the bridle, and then he'd just jump awfully, now, using 10x more leg, i can keep him balanced, & even though he's hell bent on getting there, the engine is really engaged, which makes a huge difference.
 
I just go with him. How old is your horse?

Have you ever seen Hickstead jump especially at WEG? He goes very fast around the course and you have to just let him do it as thats how he jumps.

I think if your horse knows what he's doing sometimes just go with it, as long as it isn't crazily too fast.
 
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