Jumping Youngsters - when is too soon

ILuvCowparsely said:
Personally, I hate seeing babies jumping over jumps in the school at under 5when they are being advertised for sale. Any horse can jump and to see babies jumping in an advert puts me off. Also hate the stupid music people add, so I turn sound off as I like to hear the horse when a video is being shown not hidden sound with some ghastly music.


To answer your question, I wise person told me not do anything with her till at least 6 and not serious with my ID till she is at least 7, that is my guide line, when bones are knitted more and ligaments are stronger. MY current ID was jumping show jumps before 5 years and now she has clicking in her joints. Also girl I knew was jumping her horse at 4 by 7 he was PTS as hocks gone.

Obviously people do what they want but that is my age guide.

Do it while they young and their legs get shot.
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As I mentioned a key issue is people expect too much from horses who are bred for a very different job than the one the owner wants them to do. Your horse was designed to pull a plough/cart 5 days a week and take them to church on a Sunday if a pure ID so isn’t really designed to jump hence they have been refined by being added to TB over the years. ID also have huge issues with canter though this has been moderately improved over the years by lightening and refining the breed. So ultimately every time someone expects something more from the way it was bred they are putting it under pressure. Everytime you canter in the school for instance as it was designed for straight lines in walk and trot. So sure take your time as you would break your horse.

Clicking in the joints has scientifically proven not to be an indicator of arthritis.

Anecdote doesn’t equal evidence. Your friends horse could have had crap confo, crap upbringing etc.
 
LEC said:
As I mentioned a key issue is people expect too much from horses who are bred for a very different job than the one the owner wants them to do. Your horse was designed to pull a plough/cart 5 days a week and take them to church on a Sunday if a pure ID so isn’t really designed to jump hence they have been refined by being added to TB over the years. ID also have huge issues with canter though this has been moderately improved over the years by lightening and refining the breed. So ultimately every time someone expects something more from the way it was bred they are putting it under pressure. Everytime you canter in the school for instance as it was designed for straight lines in walk and trot. So sure take your time as you would break your horse.

Clicking in the joints has scientifically proven not to be an indicator of arthritis.

Anecdote doesn’t equal evidence. Your friends horse could have had crap confo, crap upbringing etc.
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And never mind jumping, it’s often the obsession with riding in arenas that does more harm to horses young and old than anything else. Mentally and physically.
 
ihatework said:
I actually don’t think it matters if you say 5 or rising 5, it’s pretty obvious what it means and not worth nit-picking. Only calling him a 4yo would be incorrect.
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Except when people insist on using yhe term in October or November. Then you haven't a clue how old the horse is!

I've vetted several horses that were a year younger/older than the purchaser thought due to this!
 
It really does show how out of touch we are with the natural behaviour of the species of horse - in this case their normal reproductive habits, as we determine they are a year older several months before they likely and naturally would be - just to fit in with our human calendar.
 
PurpleSpots said:
It really does show how out of touch we are with the natural behaviour of the species of horse - in this case their normal reproductive habits, as we determine they are a year older several months before they likely and naturally would be - just to fit in with our human calendar.
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Age doesn’t really matter in the wild when 14-16 is pretty much max age they live to and they are pretty much mature at 2 to reproduce.
 
LEC said:
Well there is nothing natural or normal about keeping horses for humans 🤷‍♀️
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That is absolutely correct!

And why we should strive to respect and support the natural, normal behaviours and needs of their species rather than applying and forcing human perspectives onto them.
 
Gamebird said:
Except when people insist on using yhe term in October or November. Then you haven't a clue how old the horse is!

I've vetted several horses that were a year younger/older than the purchaser thought due to this!
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My friend went to view one in Dec described as rising 5. I said well she's 4 then.

Hocks can go by 6 when the horse has done nothing - I have a field pet who I backed late at 5, barely did anything before realising something was NQR. Whether it's the pssm or just her genetics but it definitely wasn't from over work or jumping.....
 
I know that many find the "rising" thing to be useful, and I understand the reasoning behind it, but I will always find it annoying. I'm not even sure why 🤣

I don't notice people saying it as much in the US, or in some other parts of Europe, but maybe that's just in the circles I'm in.

Technically mine is "rising 4" but I've just started calling him 4 at this point. His birthday is in mid May. I get that he's different from a 2021 model born in January or October, but...meh.

I have no desire to "cling to his youth" and sometimes I feel that's what the rising thing is.

I'm not new to young horses and I understand the developmental stages and whatnot, but maybe I've just gone so long without doing the "rising" thing, that when I try it, it just feels weird. I dunno! Is he rising like dough? Like Jesus? When has he risen?


Sorry 🤣
 
I cannot say that I feel pressure from calling my horse a 4 year old instead of rising 4. That's a very individual thing, I think. If you (generally speaking) allow that pressure to be applied, then that's on you. If you need to psych yourself into not feeling pressured by saying "rising" then go ahead.

So if 1 January rolls around, and my horse is 4 in March, he's "rising" from 1 Jan until his birthday of 5 March? Or does he "rise" before that?

To be honest, I don't give a fig if people want to say rising. I'm just stating my thoughts and questions on it.
 
CanteringCarrot said:
I cannot say that I feel pressure from calling my horse a 4 year old instead of rising 4. That's a very individual thing, I think. If you (generally speaking) allow that pressure to be applied, then that's on you. If you need to psych yourself into not feeling pressured by saying "rising" then go ahead.

So if 1 January rolls around, and my horse is 4 in March, he's "rising" from 1 Jan until his birthday of 5 March? Or does he "rise" before that?

To be honest, I don't give a fig if people want to say rising. I'm just stating my thoughts and questions on it.
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I'd say the horse is "rising" from the 1st Jan until his actual birthday, but forget that, I'll never refer to a horse as "rising" again without thinking of a doughy Jesus 🤣
 
I found the "x-age from Jan 1st" or the "rising x" thing insanely annoying when I was looking for a youngster. Made worse by looking in January/February. If someone said they had a "3 year old" for sale, there is a world of difference between a horse who is *actually 3*, as in turned 3 in the spring/summer last year and will be 4 in six to eight months, and something that is *actually 2* and will be 3 in the coming spring/summer. And you would not always know until you saw the passport.

I know, I know, I bought a bloody 2-year old anyway, but the original (and far more sensible) plan was to buy a 3 or 4 year old so I could back it that year or the next, instead of two years down the line. So yeah, the *actual* birthday mattered. Well, in theory. The implementation was poor. I knew she was actually 2. I contacted the breeder about a 3 year old she was advertising, and she said he'd just been sold, but she had a couple 2 year olds, turning 3 in the summer. Because the breeder was just outside of Glasgow, I thought, oh, well f*89ck it, I'll pop by look at the 2 year olds. Had the breeder been hours away, no way in hell would I have looked at 2 year olds.
 
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TheMule said:
Billy Be Cool was very lightly competed as a young horse. He won the BYEH class with a very good jockey on board who wouldn’t have needed to do much prep with him. He evented 3 times up to the age of 7 and then made a very minimal impact on the eventing world before breaking. He hasn’t been used much as a stallion due to that, and the fact he wasn’t a particularly easy type to use- he doesn’t have enough blood to breed eventers out of anything other than full TB mares and he isn’t a good enough jumper to use as a SJ sire
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Hi again as per your comments above and the fact that you’ve stated you’re a current eventer who saw Billy Be Cool plenty of times while you were competing and you’re very knowledgeable on breeding, I thought I would try and find out more as I’ve never really looked into this as I’m just a basic owner who doesn’t pretend to know anything and what I have found out is that Billy Be Cool seems to have sired horses who have competed 3* and 4* as well as jumping at 1m40 so while not world beaters and not enough blood as you say they are defiantly doing something way above my imagination. I know you obviously know this and have a poor opinion on the sire but others (who probably aren’t interested) would not of as I certainly did not!! My boy has siblings in the (mostly low)placings all around the country and in showjumping too. Thank you for helping me get an education. I’m even prouder now 🥰
 
LEC said:
As I mentioned a key issue is people expect too much from horses who are bred for a very different job than the one the owner wants them to do. Your horse was designed to pull a plough/cart 5 days a week and take them to church on a Sunday if a pure ID so isn’t really designed to jump hence they have been refined by being added to TB over the years. ID also have huge issues with canter though this has been moderately improved over the years by lightening and refining the breed. So ultimately every time someone expects something more from the way it was bred they are putting it under pressure. Everytime you canter in the school for instance as it was designed for straight lines in walk and trot. So sure take your time as you would break your horse.

Clicking in the joints has scientifically proven not to be an indicator of arthritis.

Anecdote doesn’t equal evidence. Your friends horse could have had crap confo, crap upbringing etc.
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Well no he was actually well bred, as I knew the breeding. He started jumping high by the age of 4. As for my horse I know what ID were mainly used for, but still wrong in my opinion to jump serious anything in the ID range or others under 5 their growth plates are not fused at 5. My mare was seriously jumped pre her 5th birthday more or less when she was 4. I stand by what I said I think its wrong to jump babies, and also question why!

Clicking joints can also be, aging, joint injury, arthritis, or trauma to the joint I know all that. I will never know all her past is, I know she did had accidents and treated rough when young. That aside, I also know that many show jumpers and dressage start young and once injured they sell them on. Some horses are broken in young and usually with serious people sold by 11 injured stale.
 
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Spirit7 said:
100% agree
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paddi22 said:
I would jump mine when four, but it wouldn't be in arena. I pick tiny, tiny logs on xc hires, and would have them play with banks, ditches and water, but just following another horse and having fun. I think it stands to them to be figuring out their feet and balance, and gets them forward and enjoying it. but it would be done with an attitude of pure play. I found them when you start with arena jumps they are more confident,. brave and forward.
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100% also
 
ILuvCowparsely said:
Well no he was actually well bred, as I knew the breeding. He started jumping high by the age of 4. As for my horse I know what ID were mainly used for, but still wrong in my opinion to jump serious anything in the ID range or others under 5 their joints have not knitted at 5. My mare was seriously jumped pre her 5th birthday more or less when she was 4. I stand by what I said I think its wrong to jump babies, and also question why!

Clicking joints can also be, aging, joint injury, arthritis, or trauma to the joint I know all that. I will never know all her past is, I know she did had accidents and treated rough when young. That aside, I also know that many show jumpers and dressage start young and once injured they sell them on. Some horses are broken in young and usually with serious people sold by 11 injured stale.
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Just for clarity, joints absolutely do not knit. That is not something that happens, perhaps with the exception of fusion during pathologic processes such as hock OA, or deliberately via surgery (arthrodesis).

You may be thinking of growth plates fusing, but these are outwith the joint capsule and not connected to the joint.

Apologies for being the pedant, but it's an important subject and I think it's worthwhile to clear that point up for the benefit of people reading.
 
Gamebird said:
Just for clarity, joints absolutely do not knit. That is not something that happens, perhaps with the exception of fusion during pathologic processes such as hock OA, or deliberately via surgery (arthrodesis).

You may be thinking of growth plates fusing, but these are outwith the joint capsule and not connected to the joint.

Apologies for being the pedant, but it's an important subject and I think it's worthwhile to clear that point up for the benefit of people reading.
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Yes your right i knew what I meant but explained it wrong. Have changed it.
 
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