Just a little rant. Disgusted.....

[The Fuzzy Furry]

I can put a double bridle together and put it on a horse without making a pigs ear of it (well bully for me eh?) but give me two knitting needles, a ball of wool and a pattern without telling me how to cast on, pearl one knit one etc, then at the end of the day I'd still be none the wiser.

Are you me??

(I cant knit either!!)

Its sometimes a difficult line to tread. I tend to err on the not giving anything unless asked (on the whole), unless its a life & death situation....

One successful thing I used to be involved in when teaching at PC (and was also a PC mum at the time, so a conflict there ) was I got sessions going for parents 'How to help your child at the yard'.
This involved basic stable management so the parents were equipped a little better to 'do' the ponies if they had to (such as falling onto harder times & moving to DIY yards or moving upwards & keeping ponies at home.
It started on how to handle the pony (some had never done that) to std D test grooming & then onto tacking up etc.

Had suprising questions some of the time, but over the sessions the parents mostly gelled - and even asked for more. Some even took up riding themselves. It was really great to have positive feed back & it became the norm to drag/entice/encourage new parents over during a rally when their child was riding & parents congregated by a box for coffee & stable management sessions.

 

[HihoGinger]

Believe it or not, I once saw a fellow livery put a pelham in her cobs mouth - upside down. She'd attached the cheek pieces to the bottom rein rings.

Interestingly, I bumped into an ex-work colleague a couple of weeks ago whose daughter qualified as a vet about 2 years ago, and she had been telling her mum that she was appalled by the lack of knowledge she was seeing in owners during call-outs. Thoughts anyone?

You mean like this?

This was posted by a teenage girl on my FB. It was her loan pony.
This is how the conversation went...I did try to be tactful, but I fear it fell on deaf ears.
She had been helping at a riding school for years.

Alison Irving Gorgeous pony but your bit's upside down hun x
17 August 2009 at 20:37 · Like

*name witheld* it acctually looks it but it isnt it has the curb chain bit at the bottom lol
i dont ride him in that anymore anyway i ride in a snaffle xxx

Alison Irving I thought it looked like a pelham?
17 August 2009 at 20:43 · Like

*name witheld* i dunno reli his owner just game me the bridle lol i have noo idea i never use it anyway lol
17 August 2009 at 20:45 · Like

Alison Irving Lol, no probs, but if you google pelham bit you will see what I mean. Perhaps the other folks weren't sure how to fit it. It wouldn't be the first bit to be put on upside down that's for sure!

 

[babymare]

I have no problem at all with peoplle new to our hobby/sport. we all start not knowing anything - we had one family really novice and bought a novice pony but mum and daughter were like sponges soaking up advice/information they were always asking questions and what a joy it was to guide them - took advice to get good instructor - and whatch them grow in confidence and do so so well for their pony. 1 question " we have had hay delivered its greener than what we have is it ok " they were a lovely lovely family and the pony, its care and the way it came on was an absoulte credit to them - the ones i can not cope with is this example - daughter rode friends pony twice so they bought darling daughter an unsuitable "flashy" pony would not listen to advice as they wore the top of range exspensive riding gear- told pony was becoming lammie risk. ignored. pony was lame and didnt get vet for 3 weeks. so many examples Ignored any advise given as they knew " well we have had dogs for years"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "Oh we do like saying at dinner parties that said daughter has a pony" !!!!!!! Those people I have no time for and pity the pony - on pony number 3 now as other 2 unsuitable and wouldnt listen to anyone ***** throws hands in air in dispair

 

[angelish]

you must be so incredibly bored to go around checking up on how other people fit there tack ...................

 

[Alfiem]

Just ridiculous, it's basic training! I learnt this at riding school level!
I swear, people should have to take a test before having an animal, p****s me off!

And before having a child - some people are so stupid it's terrifying

 

[Echo Bravo]

And I'm sending my spare cash to Spana, to help donkeys and horses because their owners don't know better, perhaps they should start looking over here

 

[marmalade76]

you must be so incredibly bored to go around checking up on how other people fit there tack ...................

Well, I wasn't riding myself at Hartpury so had plenty of time to be nosey, but I was mounted out hunting which makes it quite easy to see other people's bitting arrangements.

 

[BeckyCandy]

I have a horsey mum so that helps a lot and my dad has enough knowledge to be helpful on general horsey issues and riding, teck etc. BUT even with all this knowledge my mum insisted she wasn't going to just buy me a pony becuase I wanted one and enjoyed them. I had to have riding lessons for 3 years from the ages of abotu 31/2 to 6. I then from the age of 6 had to join pony club and complete a couple of tests D and D+ before she got me a pony on loan I loaned this pony for years because I fell in love with her. She would take me to the stables daily and then when I was 8 baught land opposite my house. A lot of the other children my age had been baught a pony after 5-6 riding lessons had non horsey mums and alot of the time it was left to my mum being at the stables to give these kids a hand to walk us all out on small hacks and watch. Shes not an over protective mum or a pushy parent but she felt we didn't have the knowledge, strength etc to be able to look after a pony alone at a big yard with lots going on. And I make her right if anything had happened to us we wouldnt of known what to do. I think it doesnt help that people wear certain things for fashion but don't have a clue what to do. Like the 5 point breatsplate is pretty in at the moment but I bet if you asked half the people wearing them what they are for and why they are wearing them they wouldnt have a clue. I think its very sad as people aren't as helpful as they used to be. I'm always up for offering a bit of advice even when i'm asked and it falls on deaf ears but I don't think people share as much knowledge as they used to even through pony club. I have also had a friend change instructor recently because she was telling her to do stuff but couldnt explain why which is pretty scary. Sorry for the essay!

 

[fatpiggy]

You mean like this?

This was posted by a teenage girl on my FB. It was her loan pony.
This is how the conversation went...I did try to be tactful, but I fear it fell on deaf ears.
She had been helping at a riding school for years.

Alison Irving Gorgeous pony but your bit's upside down hun x
17 August 2009 at 20:37 · Like

*name witheld* it acctually looks it but it isnt it has the curb chain bit at the bottom lol
i dont ride him in that anymore anyway i ride in a snaffle xxx

Alison Irving I thought it looked like a pelham?
17 August 2009 at 20:43 · Like

*name witheld* i dunno reli his owner just game me the bridle lol i have noo idea i never use it anyway lol
17 August 2009 at 20:45 · Like

Alison Irving Lol, no probs, but if you google pelham bit you will see what I mean. Perhaps the other folks weren't sure how to fit it. It wouldn't be the first bit to be put on upside down that's for sure!

Yes, exactly like that. Other crazy things I've seen were mostly done by a person who'd had horses for years (got through them like I do with socks ) including putting overreach boots on above the fetlocks and brushing boots with the buckles to the inside and striking pad to the outside. She saw me feeding some oil to my horse and decided to copy - sloshed half a pint of the stuff in and not surprisingly the pony wouldn't eat it so she carried on regardless - pony ate just its single pad of hay in the evenings (14hh pony, oh dear) and nothing else until I gave it a small feed when the yard was deserted. Poor little thing was starving after 4 days of this. Owner came from a family of demmicks and she was the brightest ! But at least it was a busy yard attached to a riding school so plenty of people around to try to protect her poor animals. Imagine if it was just a small DIY like where I am now - I hardly ever see any of the other owners at the best of times.

 

[Enfys]

She saw me feeding some oil to my horse and decided to copy - sloshed half a pint of the stuff in and not surprisingly the pony wouldn't eat it so she carried on regardless - pony ate just its single pad of hay in the evenings (14hh pony, oh dear) and nothing else until I gave it a small feed when the yard was deserted. Poor little thing was starving after 4 days of this

So presumably you did tactfully suggest an amount (a cupful, or whatever) to her so she would know the amount, rather than just watch the pony leave the feed night after night.


Owner came from a family of demmicks and she was the brightest ! But at least it was a busy yard attached to a riding school so plenty of people around to try to protect her poor animals. Imagine if it was just a small DIY like where I am now - I hardly ever see any of the other owners at the best of times.

What is a demmick please?

 

[VoR]

easy to say how disgusted we are and how terrible it is.....why not try to educate them on how to do things rather than throw scorn and look down on them, people don't know what they don't know, if you have had 'good training' then use it to help others not to show how superior you are because of it

 

[marmalade76]

'Cause it's not really the done thing to point out to random people that they've done something wrong. Some people just don't want to learn anyway.

 

[Naryafluffy]

'Cause it's not really the done thing to point out to random people that they've done something wrong. Some people just don't want to learn anyway.

But most of us are all to happy to point these things out on an open forum!!!
There is always one on a yard that won't listen, there is one on our yard, everyone is quite happy for issues to be pointed out and to learn.
The person that pointed out about kids not being able to learn at riding schools anymore because of red tape is correct, how do kids then learn without actually doing it for themselves.
The other person that had pointed out about being handed a bridle at a riding school, to be fair if I turned up to pay for a lesson I wouldn't expect to have to tack up the horse myself either.
being able to drop into the conversation about the kids having a pony is because it's a status symbol, to be honest these people don't tend to last long with horses and give up fairly quick.

Demmicks I think are academics, they've read it in a book and therefore they know how to, we had a guy on our yard that used to find it all very difficult riding horses, because the theory is very rarely like the reality. Very clever guy out of the saddle but used to over think everything in the saddle.

If people want help they will accept it, not much we can do about the ones that won't listen other than keep an eye on the horses and alert the relevant people if things decline.

 

[VoR]

'Cause it's not really the done thing to point out to random people that they've done something wrong. Some people just don't want to learn anyway.

Well you see I spend my whole working life making people aware of things they could do better (not what they've 'done wrong'), I am better at doing it now because of the practice I've had, approached correctly most people will accept good advice and yes I accept that some don't want to learn but you can't judge that by looking at them, only through their response to your advice and guidance.

I suppose we stop offering help to the majority who'd accept it because of the minority who won't do we?

 

[marmalade76]

Well you see I spend my whole working life making people aware of things they could do better (not what they've 'done wrong'), I am better at doing it now because of the practice I've had, approached correctly most people will accept good advice.....

What, to people at shows who you've never seen before?? Different with people you know/ share a yard with but complete strangers??

 

[VoR]

What, to people at shows who you've never seen before?? Different with people you know/ share a yard with but complete strangers??

Yup, why not, if you approach it with 'Hiya, I think you've forgotten to XXXX' or something similar, why not? You aren't saying 'pleb, you've done that wrong' but I know you know how to do that but today I think you must have forgotten. If they take it badly, well, it's them who have the problem not you!

 

[marmalade76]

Yup, why not, if you approach it with 'Hiya, I think you've forgotten to XXXX' or something similar, why not? You aren't saying 'pleb, you've done that wrong' but I know you know how to do that but today I think you must have forgotten. If they take it badly, well, it's them who have the problem not you!

Well, you are braver woman than I!

 

[VoR]

Well, you are braver woman than I!

That's cause I'm not...a woman that is!!! Little scenario, you are in XC collecting, someone is making their way past you to the start gate and you notice their girth is a bit loose.......do you say anything?

No difference with any incorrectly adjusted tack surely?

 

[marmalade76]

That's cause I'm not...a woman that is!!!

So sorry, VoR!!

Yes, I probably would say something about a loose girth.

 

[VoR]

So sorry, VoR!!

Yes, I probably would say something about a loose girth.

There ya go then, all a question of degrees, you can do it, it's you're concern about their reaction that holds you back, ever given someone advice and had it thrown back in your face or had an angry reaction, generally speaking people are more receptive than you think as long as you don't show them up or call them 'stupid'. We just always remember the bad experiences and let them govern our actions.

I'd normally charge for that lesson, but you can have it for free!!

 

[LaurenBay]

Some of these comments are a little harsh. I have no idea how a pelham should fit. I couldn't tell you if it's upside down or hasn't got this attachement etc. But I've never had to learn this. Does this mean I shouldn't own my Horse! Everyone has to start somewhere! Every day I learn new things about Horses and I know I've still got lots to learn, as does EVERYONE using this forum. OK, I admit if I needed to use this bit for whatever reason I would ask someone for help/show me how it should be fitted, rather then guess and do it myself. But I hope the person I did ask wouldn't jump down my throat and say I should learn these things before I got a Horse in the first place. Everyone has to start somewhere, so rather then being nasty about it, why not offer to show them?

 

[fatpiggy]

I haven't a clue where the term demmick came from but have always used it to mean an idiot (would be funny if it really did come from academic though!). Doesn't anyone read around a subject any more? I had to wait until I was in my early 30s before I got my own horse, my parents have never ever seen me ride and I learned by the falling off method on a schoolfriend's pony as a teenager, but I spent the time in between starting to ride, and buying my horse to read, watch and teach myself. So although the pony wore a kimblewick, I knew how the other bit groups worked, were fitted (things were rather simpler in those days as all these fancy variations hadn't reached the market yet ) and what you did with them. I learned to bandage on chairlegs, learned horse anatomy from books and magazines, watched the neighbours lunging and so on. My own horse was hardly the classic "first horse" but because I had years of experience riding other people's nutters and plenty of theory stashed away, it was never much of a problem. Whenever people ask me about buying a horse I tell them to go away and think about it, then think some more, then get one on a share or loan basis to start with. Its alot of time, committment and money and not something to rush into on a whim.

 

[HihoGinger]

Some of these comments are a little harsh. I have no idea how a pelham should fit. I couldn't tell you if it's upside down or hasn't got this attachement etc. But I've never had to learn this.
Everyone has to start somewhere, so rather then being nasty about it, why not offer to show them?

But you don't use a pelham. In that case why should you know? If you did, then I would expect you to learn how to fit it properly, and you have said you would. No problem there.
We ALL have much to learn. I think sometimes the problem is that people use equipment without knowing why or how, and sometimes get it all wrong, when a simple question to someone more experienced would avoid this.
In reference to my pelham picture. You could see what I put...
Was I being nasty? NO
Did I offer advice? YES
Was it basically ignored YES

That is why sometimes people don't offer to show others, because the "others" are cretins.

 

[Enfys]

In reference to my pelham picture. You could see what I put...
Was I being nasty? NO
Did I offer advice? YES
Was it basically ignored YES

That is why sometimes people don't offer to show others, because the "others" are cretins.

The point is that you did offer advice. It may not have been accepted there and then, but with luck the upside down pelham person may have thought about it, perhaps looked at other photos, then her own and quietly sorted it out. Being corrected on a forum, however tactfully, can be just as embarrassing/belittling (even if that was not the intention at all) and appearing to ignore it was the easy option. People take, and deal with, criticism/suggestions etc, in different ways. You may have made that horse's life a little bit more comfortable after all, you probably will never know. Don't give up, you may get no thanks for it but one of these days it could save a life.

I, too, will comment on a complete strangers tack if it is going to be dangerous/uncomfortable. I will always do it quietly and without an audience, usually I start off with something like "these bits are buggers aren't they? The number of times I've put them on upside down before...! Your boy might be more comfortable if it is altered a bit, do you need him held while you do it?" It is how I would rather be approached (and have been) than someone marching up and announcing the fact that I have got it wrong to all and sundry.

If I am talking to someone from the ground I am a devil for putting keepers right and straightening nosebands etc as well, completely unconsciously, then I realise what I've done and end up apologising

 

[DragonSlayer]

Yup, why not, if you approach it with 'Hiya, I think you've forgotten to XXXX' or something similar, why not? You aren't saying 'pleb, you've done that wrong' but I know you know how to do that but today I think you must have forgotten. If they take it badly, well, it's them who have the problem not you!

..and what gives you the 'authority' to take it upon yourself to inform people of this?

Are you an instructor?

In that case, I would not be 'paying' you for advice, but kindly informing you it was not asked for.

 

[OldNag]

..and what gives you the 'authority' to take it upon yourself to inform people of this?

Are you an instructor?

In that case, I would not be 'paying' you for advice, but kindly informing you it was not asked for.

FWIW, if I had put something on wrong and someone else kindly let me know in this manner, I'd be really grateful.

 

[Feathered]

I agree with VoR. I would happily take advice from a stranger at a show or wherever as long as it was given in a friendly, helpful and non judgemental manner, and I would be thankful for it too.

 

[NOISYGIRL]

Or use them without a lip strap or just attach the rein to the bottom ring on a pelham

 

[spookypony]

This thread got me to wondering: so much fiction that features horses presents them in a highly romanticised way, as in, girl meets wild stallion, communes with it semi-telepathically, leaps on bareback (must have very springy legs/vaulting training) and gallops off into sunset...characters in historical or fantasy novels never seem to have trouble. Their horses are completely un-spooky, complete novice village kids that have never sat on a horse before hop on one and can immediately go on multi-month epic journeys and be confidently carried into battle, and in the evening camp, the horse gets its nosebag and then waits off-screen until it's needed again. Movies are much the same. Given this impression of horses in the media, perhaps it's quite natural that many non-horsey people seem to think this is really how horses behave?

 

[DragonSlayer]

FWIW, if I had put something on wrong and someone else kindly let me know in this manner, I'd be really grateful.

What are your own instructors for? I get my knowledge and advice from her. 'Too many cooks...' and all that. My instructor is a highly successful dressage rider and certainly knows her onions.

Going up to complete strangers to inform them they 'YOU' think they have something wrong (and forget this pic of a pelham upside down, I'm talking about anything) is just not cricket.

What if THEIR instructors had told them how to do it? Is the person 'trying to give advice' better than their own instructor? Says who?