Just a quickie on visiting loan horse and trespassing?

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diluteherd

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I want to go and visit my horse I have out on loan, I have had quite enough of the loaner at the moment messing me around when it comes to arranging to go and see him. I take a lot to annoy, but she has really done it this time and for my horses sake I need to go check everything is ok. So tomorrow I am going whether she is there or not as its ringing just minor alarm bells.

I do get the impression she is just an unrealiable, chubby teenager, I know her mum is horsey though so I dont feel hugely concerned at the moment for his welfare - as I know she was planning on caring for him part of the time anyway hence only little minor alarm bells, but just want to make 100% sure he is ok.


Anyway.. what is my position regarding traspassing? As he isnt on an actually livery yard, he is stable with one other horse on some chaps land they know. I have told her that I will be going sometime this week and to tell the guy, but how do I stand with the law if I get confronted for trespassing on private property even though I am there to see my own horse?
 
Im not sure where you stand legally if caught trespassing, but just wanted to say that if that was my horse I would be doing exactly the same as you and wouldn't care about being caught!!!
 
Do you have the horses passport? Id take it with you and if you do get confronted just explain why you are there? I would anyway :D x
 
I may be wrong but I have been told no ones ever been prosecuted for trespassing in the UK. Just go! The only reason they'd mind is if they had something to hide :D
 
I have no definitive experience of this but I would imagine that if the horse is yours you have legal right to gain access to him whenever you wish. Have you got a loan agreement? If you do o would take that along with you, i am presuming that there will be some reference in the agreement to you being able to visit the horse to check on his wellbeing from time to time. In anycase i cant see any reason why you should be prevented from seeing your own horse to check on its wellfare.
 
I would definitely do the same and do whatever it takes to go and visit him.

Not sure why you felt it was appropriate to call her a 'chubby teenager - clearly meant as an insult!
 
I always have it written into a loan contract that I may visit totally unannounced. If someone is THAT serious about having my horse they will agree to that.
That said, I have yet to encounter a problem with any loanee I have had! Mine have all been fab!
 
Not sure how her being chubby is relevant!

If you do go then take a photo of your horse with you, that way if you are confronted by a neighbour you can prove you have a reason to be there

I dont think you would get confronted though even if the loaner turns up, you are only there to check your horse is ok and are not planning to cause trouble
 
From personal experience, trespass can only be applied if damage is committed. Well that what police said in regard to my grandfathers property so as long as you do not damage anything, do not create a scene you should be ok. If you have any paper work that can prove ownership etc or text telling her you would be visiting i would take copies just in case. I would also notify loaner on day just so that they know whats happening.
 
Billie1007 said:
I would definitely do the same and do whatever it takes to go and visit him.

Not sure why you felt it was appropriate to call her a 'chubby teenager - clearly meant as an insult!
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Sorry that was just a back handed comment to let steam off - not my usual style but she has just annoyed me so much!! Im not going to fall out with her after all she has my horse! lol

There have been other things like offering to take her to shows with me and being let down the night before when other people were wanting to go and I had to say no, the matter that I did say about possibly selling him to her which she was over the moon with but couldnt afford him so I was happy to do installments with her as she said she couldnt to buy out right (although she has been on holiday and gets loads of tattoos :confused: ) So ive been trying to get down to renew loan agreement and include the payment plan and speak to her face to face but she either ignores my texts or cancels on me. I also was absolutely desperate to get my saddle pad back off her - its an expensive Le Mieux one as he shouldnt be needing it now and I needed it ASAP for one of my other guys I am breaking - totally ignored my facebook and texts. So ended up going further into my overdraft to get a replacement one. Have also told her he is due up injections in September and to let me know which vets they are going to use as I will either be there on the day or take his passport to be stamped to the vets.

Just endless little niggles that are really starting to wind me up.

I would talk to the mum but my phone lost all my numbers, darned technology!! :mad:
 
diluteherd said:
Sorry that was just a back handed comment to let steam off - not my usual style but she has just annoyed me so much!! Im not going to fall out with her after all she has my horse! lol

There have been other things like offering to take her to shows with me and being let down the night before when other people were wanting to go and I had to say no, the matter that I did say about possibly selling him to her which she was over the moon with but couldnt afford him so I was happy to do installments with her as she said she couldnt to buy out right (although she has been on holiday and gets loads of tattoos :confused: ) So ive been trying to get down to renew loan agreement and include the payment plan and speak to her face to face but she either ignores my texts or cancels on me. I also was absolutely desperate to get my saddle pad back off her - its an expensive Le Mieux one as he shouldnt be needing it now and I needed it ASAP for one of my other guys I am breaking - totally ignored my facebook and texts. So ended up going further into my overdraft to get a replacement one. Have also told her he is due up injections in September and to let me know which vets they are going to use as I will either be there on the day or take his passport to be stamped to the vets.

Just endless little niggles that are really starting to wind me up.

I would talk to the mum but my phone lost all my numbers, darned technology!! :mad:
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I would be turning up with a horsebox.
 
igglepop said:
From personal experience, trespass can only be applied if damage is committed. Well that what police said in regard to my grandfathers property so as long as you do not damage anything, do not create a scene you should be ok.
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Actually that is completely inaccurate.

The police will only be interested if you commit a criminal act whilst trespassing because trespass is a matter of civil law.

It is however a strict liability tort (ie, there's no defence) and there is also no need for any damage or loss to be caused for the landowner to sue you, so I suggest that you tread incredibly carefully.
 
no expert here - but wouldn't the fact you have stated to girl that you are going to visit and request for her to pass message on to landowner (iirc from your post) mean you have no intention to trespass? I mean, you have given prior notification of your visit - which afterall is to inspect your property.
 
No one seems to have picked up on the fact that you have already broken the law. She has the horse and you have the passport. Legally the two must be together at all times. I take it you have kept it for safety sake but a passport is not proof of ownership but simply an ID document for the animal. The law states it must be with the horse at all times.
On the subject of trespass, I don't know, but if all is well no one will mind you visiting, the fact you think they might tells me you are not 100% convinced all IS well. My advice is get out there and find out.
 
I would imagine the worst that could happen would be for the landowner/occupier to ask you to leave! Couldn't you tell a white lie and say you were just looking for the loaner if challenged -- as she doesn't reply to your messages? I think that would both concern and annoy me too. It is perfectly reasonable for you to want to check up on your property whether it is written into the contract or not. How else do you reassure yourself that he is being well cared for? Most farming landowners will understand that.
 
Do you not know where they live? I would be firstly going to check on horse just tell land owner if challenged that she keeps ignoring your telephone and messages about YOUR horse and you just needed to check he was OK and try to catch the girls mother as your phone broke with her tel number on and could he let you have the mothers tel. no. please. I would then drive to their house and talk to mother. What sort of contract have you got with them? Do you have a contract?
 
Goldenstar said:
You should visit if challenged explain who you are and what you are doing if asked to leave you must do so .
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TBH, I'd go straight to the house of the property, explain who you are (with proof of loan agreement/passport etc) and that you are visiting your horse and loaner, do they mind if you go straight to the field? If they do say they'd prefer it if you wait for the loaner to arrive you can always say you've left your phone at home, would they mind reminding her you're there (me, devious? No of course not! :D)
I would only be annoyed and likely to order you off if you didn't make yourself known to me (as the land owner) before setting foot on my land unless you were already with the loaner of course.

Hope it works out for you.
 
OP if you're having these sort of concerns, I'd go with transport and come back with the horse. Someone who you think may cause you problems with trespass is surely not trustworthy enough to be left in charge of hundreds (or thousands) of pounds worth of your property. From what you've said the loaner is just not going to pay you anywhere near the amount you want to sell for. I'd be hearing lots of alarm bells if someone was anything less than enthusiastic about me coming to check a horse on loan. I'd be wondering what they're trying to hide.
 
ribbons said:
No one seems to have picked up on the fact that you have already broken the law. She has the horse and you have the passport. Legally the two must be together at all times. I take it you have kept it for safety sake but a passport is not proof of ownership but simply an ID document for the animal. The law states it must be with the horse at all times.
On the subject of trespass, I don't know, but if all is well no one will mind you visiting, the fact you think they might tells me you are not 100% convinced all IS well. My advice is get out there and find out.
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I'm not sure that this is true. You don't have to have to have the passport physically with the horse at all times only when moving/travelling it. It's illegal not to have one at all but I can't see why you as the owner couldn't keep it yourself.
 
I would go introduce myself to the land owner and explain it's your horse and of course you would be popping up to see the horse from time to time.
 
Oriel said:
I'm not sure that this is true. You don't have to have to have the passport physically with the horse at all times only when moving/travelling it. It's illegal not to have one at all but I can't see why you as the owner couldn't keep it yourself.
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You have to be able to produce it within 3 or 4 hours when requested to do so, which is why it has to be with the horses day to day keeper.

I dont see that this 3/4 hour requirement will be satisfied in this scenario- the passport should be with the loanee (person who is loaning the horse).

If I wouldnt give a loanee my horses passport then I wouldnt hand over the horse either...
 
I'm slightly confused as to why you would be happy to sell to someone who is peeing you off and giving you concerns over the welfare of your horse:confused: if i was loaning and the loanee was giving me the runaround over visiting i would be over there asap to find out what she's got to hide!
 
I still have the passport. Only because I've been trying to meet to renew the contract after the trial period, which included handing over the passport but it never happened.

So there is a contract but it has not been renewed - due to not being able to meet.

Ibblebibble - I wouldn't sell him to her now in a million years not after this fiasco. This was before everything had gone on.
 
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