Just a thought re Amersham

T

Tinypony

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Some of the smaller equine charities have seen a sharp dip in their donations since the Amersham situation hit the press. I'm organising a fund raising and several people have said they won't be taking part as they have already sent money to Amersham. I'm not saying they shouldn't, I've sent some myself, but the work of the small charities continues day in day out, regardless of the cases that hit the papers. I don't know particularly why I'm posting this, it's just been on my mind today.
 
Whenever something dramatic like this happens, I always get my cheque book out, but I rarely give to those charities involved, I always give to the tiny ones who may or may not have anything to do with the rescue attempts. I know fine well they will lose out on donations during a case like this.
 
Seems a fair comment, people only have so much money to go round, if we all gave to every needy cause which came through our letterbox or on the tv we would all be bankrupt,
there was always going to be a knock on effect, ripples in the water and all that.

I think there should be a charity to give to people who are not rich or poor so always feel in the middle, just that bit too much money to claim any benefits when poorly or injured or out of work, but just not enough to afford the brand new car and house and big holiday every year very frustrating, must be hell, what could we call it, the "PONCE" charity, People Of Not Comfy Existence Enough" Get a Royal patron and it would be The Royal Ponce Charity, get Geldolf involved PONCE AID, possibilities are endless.
 
Ditto Tia, and I think that raising the matter to public attention is much needed right now, so well done you
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you know what I feel so so sorry for all those horses that ended up there and everywhere else where they are not looked after properly. I donate to all of the charities including the brooke and wwf and cancer. Only £3 to each out of my pocket money but it comes to £24.00 a month.

But I would really like to know this ... why are those horses there in the first place .....because he has bought them from a horse sale because no-one else wants them. THIS is wrong, but why are people selling to people who they know take the horses to sale or meat??/

It breaks my heart to see so many threads about selling horses for so many 'lame' different reasons ranging from 'my legs are too long now to doesn't do what I want anymore? It makes me so so sad that a horse can be discarded because they are not up to the job anymore or simply unwanted because the child (i know I know I'm a kid) is going to uni or grown out of horses. My parents tell me this ... a horse is like taking a mortgage on. This is so true as the cost of buying a horse is very different to looking after it (which as we all know is extortionate in both time and money).

If it is a genuine reason for sale fair enough but we all have experience of the not so honest reason. But can't we loan the horse out, find a retirement home (don't we owe them that much) or ensure it's going to a good home but don't sell to a dealer and then cry when something like amersham crops up!

To stop horses getting in this situation we would have to stop selling to dealers. Maybe all the charities could take a step back and help us all look at the cause of amersham as they only have limited money too. Charities work hard (and I've visited some as it means so much to me) so so hard to care for the horses 'we' don't want anymore (for whatever reason!)

Maybe just maybe people should consider the life of that horse when they buy it just as they would a dog or any other pet, maybe then just then amersham might not happen again.

Sorry but I love and adore the work of all charities but think we all need to help them out a little bit more as well as financially.

A horse is for life not just for christmas????
 
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A horse is for life not just for christmas????

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Due to the nature of these animals, the way in which they are kept, the cost of keeping them, the length of lifespan they have and a tonne of other reasons, this is ideological and not practical for many people.

Just a couple of questions, although I can think of many; at what age would people be allowed to buy horses? Who would they buy them from if no-one would sell them?

People have various qualities; some are crud riders and really wouldn't know how to train a horse if their lives depended on it; others are capable of decent riding and may have a horse who has far lesser qualities than them. Should those who can't ride continue to keep a horse which is way above their capabilities - and should the people who are good riders remain with something just as unsuitable?

Where do you feel the rubbishy type horses should go to if not to meat dealers? Not everyone has an endless stream of money, not everyone lives a financially constant life throughout, not everyone remains a horse-owner for life, not everyone owns their own land......and so on and so forth.

Ownership of a large and costly animal is rarely forever and in any society I cannot see how it possibly could be the norm.
 
Maybe not and maybe being a kid I try to see things those rose coloured spectacles or maybe I simply haven't done a good enough job of saying what i thought.

You see I just mean really that it seems to me that some people just don't give it enough thought.

yes I wish i lived in an ideal horsey world but i 'know' i don't and we can't stamp out the 'bad' dealers but i'd like to think we could try.

that's all i am getting at really. horse for life is meant more in the way of think about it more carefully i suppose, not being literal.
 
I totally agree with you and I understand the point you were making.
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Sadly it can never be.

It would be nice if people were more responsible with their animals though. If they do have to give them up, finding the best possible home is paramount. Once again though, buyers may seem lovely but unless you know these people personally then even of that you cannot be sure - you have to rely on gut-instinct and do as many checks as you can.

I produce and sell horses for a living. When I advertise I know exactly the type of person I want, so far I have always found those sorts and I hope I never meet the other sort. I never take the money for the horse until I have delivered the horse personally. If I were to arrive somewhere with a "sold horse" and the set-up appeared dubious then I would not even bother to get the horse out; I would turn around and go home and re-advertise the horse. As I say, this has never happened but I have considered this avenue so I am very well aware of what I would do in this sort of situation.

I give buy-back guarantees with my horses....REAL guarantees, not some mamby-pamby spewing of words.
 
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I totally agree with you and I understand the point you were making.
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Sadly it can never be.

It would be nice if people were more responsible with their animals though. If they do have to give them up, finding the best possible home is paramount. Once again though, buyers may seem lovely but unless you know these people personally then even of that you cannot be sure - you have to rely on gut-instinct and do as many checks as you can.

I produce and sell horses for a living. When I advertise I know exactly the type of person I want, so far I have always found those sorts and I hope I never meet the other sort. I never take the money for the horse until I have delivered the horse personally. If I were to arrive somewhere with a "sold horse" and the set-up appeared dubious then I would not even bother to get the horse out; I would turn around and go home and re-advertise the horse. As I say, this has never happened but I have considered this avenue so I am very well aware of what I would do in this sort of situation.

I give buy-back guarantees with my horses....REAL guarantees, not some mamby-pamby spewing of words.

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wow Tia there needs to be more of you everywhere....isn't it all so sad.
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I'm sure there are plenty like me
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. I'd maybe even go so far as to say that hopefully most people are like me when it comes to selling their horses. The trouble is that experienced buyers can easily dupe the inexperienced seller
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. If I were to tell you about the people who have found their previous horses through my website because I now own them and show them off to the world, and they tell me about how they were duped into selling these horses to certain people. Thankfully these horses ended up with me and for as long as I can, I will try my damndest to make sure my horses all end up in the best possible homes and if they go up for sale at a later date I have asked all of my buyers to get back in touch with me as I may know of people looking for that particular horse. All my buyers keep in light contact with me - Christmas cards and the odd email and photo. Sadly not all people are like this and it's the small minority which lets the side down.

It's not all sad though - many horses who have not been suitable for one person end up in fabulous homes with people who adore them.
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The person who takes on the animal is the person responcible for it's welfare, that goes for a dealer or private owner, lets not look for others to blame, you take on a horse, you look after it.
 
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The person who takes on the animal is the person responcible for it's welfare, that goes for a dealer or private owner, lets not look for others to blame, you take on a horse, you look after it.

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here here!!!

i know someone who sold to a known 'bad' dealer as they wanted a quick quick sale and he was problematic (in so much as she rode once every 3 months and wondered why he didn't behave perfectly, no exageration here). Off he went with dealer and she was the one who was 'so shocked' at amersham!!
 
There is no simple answer. The latest Animal Welfare Act that came out last year should have helped, but in my experience the RSPCA are still reluctant to really use it to the full. There is a lot of indescriminate breeding of poor quality stock, a lot go for meat, but I guess that all goes to produce more unwanted horses. I know of people who have brought cheap horses and then, when they decide they aren't suitable for whatever reason, send them to Ashford market. Some people see this as a reason to try to clamp down on all breeding, but I don't think that's the answer... but what is?
All I know is that near where I live there are many cases of neglect, and we do what we can. I am desperately trying to sell a few more tickets for my fundraising event (helped by some lovely H+H'ers), for a little charity, and now it's just so hard...
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It's not all sad though - many horses who have not been suitable for one person end up in fabulous homes with people who adore them.
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don't be so modest Tia, you sound a wonderful person and the line above does make me feel so much better because you are absolutely right. The good cases far outway the bad, I suppose it was the plight of those horses and why they were really there that upset me so much. Thank you for being so nice and honest and understanding of a kid. I know I am and am constantly told I'm not old enough to have an opinion yet (but i do secretly) and just said so tonight.
 
Oh you see I believe the opposite; I think children should definitely have opinions! "From the mouth of babes" and all; sometimes their thoughts are more valuable than those from people like me who think about things for hours!
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Thank you for your kind words - you keep on having your opinions.
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not every horse dealer is bad, if i was a horse i would rather belong to 10 different good dealers as to 1 bad private owner with no equine knowledge
 
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not every horse dealer is bad, if i was a horse i would rather belong to 10 different good dealers as to 1 bad private owner with no equine knowledge

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and you would be totally right. No-one at all is saying every dealer is bad on the contrary. As Tia was saying there is good and bad everywhere but fortunately the good outway the bad so yes we are agreeing with you totally and I for one feel better knowing this.

I saw a thread on here last week with a link to pictures of the horses at amersham and they all looked fat ... so who do we believe, we are passing comment more on being a responsible owner, be that a dealer or a private owner (good and bad everywhere).
 
There would be less of a problem without irresponsible breeding. Breeding of genetically unsound mares, mares and stallions with conformation that predisposes then to unsoundness, or horses that are mentally unsound.

We all know the nutty mares that have a foal "to calm her down" do you get a calm mare? Well that's open to debate, but more often than not I believe you get a still nutty mare and now theres a nutty foal too.

The much loved mare that broke down, so people decide to have a foal from her to give her a job, then express suprise when foal grows a bit then breaks down for the same reason.

The adored mare who people want to breed just one foal from, for themselves, but then the have to keep both the mare and foal, some do manage it, I believe a lot don't when foal grows to big or too sharp or something else.

People with quite ordinary mares, send them to stallions just down the road, whether he's graded/approved/licensed or not, and end up with very ordinary (and often downright poor) horses. Or the very ordinary mare sent to the super stallion who is only half of the equation and possibly didn't compliment the mare anyway.

The colour breeders who follow fashion and breed any old thing as long as it has colour. Yes there are good ones, but by golly are they outnumbered by wannabees without a clue.

For many many different reasons that I won't go into (because the list goes on and on) lots of poor quality animals are being bred, when realistically there aren't the good quality homes for them. This is why there is an excess of animals cheap enough for dodgy dealers to buy and abuse.

People need to take responsibility for their old horses, their unsound horses and for god sake don't breed them just because you can.

A faithful servant should be given the dignity of being PTS.
 
If all dealers had to be licenced and inspected 4 times a year a lot of dodgy ones would dissapear, we in the gas trade, electric trade glazing trade motor trade ect have had to put up with exams ect for years so why not the equine industry, failed inspection loss of business, thats how it works with my job, then sensible people only buy from reg dealers, any illegal traders shut down, NO EXEPTIONS.
 
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