Just being a baby, or trying to tell me something?

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

This might sound OTT (and apologies if it's a long one), but after having so many broken horses I can be prone to neurotics. I am unsure whether Dex is just being a baby and finding out what happens if he says no, or if he is trying to tell me something?

He has had 7 independent rides total now over the last 3 weeks or so in walk and trot, 10 minutes each approx - really not asking much at all just to move off, stop and steer, had a beautiful natural frame from day one so I have just let him balance himself however he sees fit for now. He has been willing but is not naturally a forward horse in himself, he never will be as he's just not that sort. First 5 rides without any issues at all, super sweet, then 6th ride he didn't want to move away from the mounting block and did a couple of small humps but once moving was A++, but then today he didn't want to move forward at all. Humping after I had mounted and asked to move off, but then someone lead him and he was fine for 2 mins in walk, then I asked for a trot and slammed the breaks on and humping/small bucks, definitely not going. Hopped off and lunged in trot for a couple mins on each rein, no issue at all, got back on and less humpy but still tried a bit, got a small willing trot and then rewarded and got off. Stood stock still at the mounting block every time, no signs of any unhappiness there or once moving, ears fine, no chomping, tail still, no head throwing.

He did also for the first couple rides walk to back of stable when I got the bridle out, but then hasn't since the third ride when I found a bit he liked, today he walked off when I picked up the saddle. Not done that before.
He has been in a bit of a grump all week, I did some groundwork with him a couple days ago and while he was willing he just seemed a bit... cheesed off, but not ears back angry, just aloof compared to usual.

- Saddle fitted 21st Feb, farrier been yesterday and is super happy with his feet
- Feed/management/turnout not changed.
- Looks sound to me on trot up/hard ground lunge/soft ground lunge - no reaction to any palpation anywhere, nothing along back - hangs his willy out when we do stretches or have a groom so not protective/stressed about anwhere
- Massage lady came 5th Feb and no issues found, said he was actually really well muscled for a youngster due to the groundwork we have been doing, very happy with him.
- Teeth done shortly before that
- YM noted that all horses have been a bit 'off' this week, professional who rides a couple horses commented on the two she rides too. Dex is very much in the middle of a serious coat change moment!

I am going to pop him on some aloe vera in case the grass change or being asked to work has set off something, I have texted massage lady again and I have asked an experienced-with-youngsters friend to come and try to see what she thinks.

Does anyone have any thoughts? If he is trying to tell me something, I really don't want to cause him to have to shout by not listening early enough!

 

[AmyMay]

It’s never a wrong call to get the vet out for a once over, especially for one that’s been so easy xx

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

It’s never a wrong call to get the vet out for a once over, especially for one that’s been so easy xx

I was definitely considering this, get them to come and do a lameness work up type visit - is that something they do if I don't have anything much to go on for them?

 

[Tiddlypom]

Saddle/tack not fitting? Doesn’t like his girth?

He’s showing that he’s not happy, you’re wise to stop while you work out why. Hopefully it’s just a little niggle which you can soon sort.

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s most likely the saddle
But yes for sure he’s telling you something

 

[Clodagh]

I wouldn’t rush to the vet but maybe give him an easy week if they are all a bit off.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

My first thought is the saddle/girth. He wouldn't be the first horse to have a different opinion from the saddle fitter.

 

[Goldenstar]

My first thought is the saddle/girth. He wouldn't be the first horse to have a different opinion from the saddle fitter.

Or the last

 

[Parrotperson]

Yeh I’d agree. Something to do with saddle/girth. At that age they NOTICE!!!!! If you know what I mean.

I know it was fitted recently but it’s worth checking. Then vet.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

My hunch is saddle too, especially from reading through what I have just written out, he has been in this saddle/girth combo both when I re-backed him beginning of Feb for a couple weeks, and all 7 rides this time around so it would be a sudden change in attitude towards it, but I suppose that's not unusual. Annoyingly trusted saddle fitter is in Derbyshire, but I have texted to see when she is next down.

I hadn't thought of girth - He had 5 girth straps on the saddle and today, rather than 2nd and 4th straps, I used 2nd and 5th. I wonder if that would be enough to cause such a change.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I wouldn’t rush to the vet but maybe give him an easy week if they are all a bit off.

He has had an easy week this week really as I have had an allergic reaction on my face, he did in hand ground work Tuesday and then I sat on today, but perhaps the rest of the week off wouldn't be a bad thing. He doesn't seem much changed by having a couple days off so far..

 

[SEL]

My hunch is saddle too, especially from reading through what I have just written out, he has been in this saddle/girth combo both when I re-backed him beginning of Feb for a couple weeks, and all 7 rides this time around so it would be a sudden change in attitude towards it, but I suppose that's not unusual. Annoyingly trusted saddle fitter is in Derbyshire, but I have texted to see when she is next down.

I hadn't thought of girth - He had 5 girth straps on the saddle and today, rather than 2nd and 4th straps, I used 2nd and 5th. I wonder if that would be enough to cause such a change.

That could put different pressure points onto his back.

He may also be changing shape and finding the saddle uncomfortable.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

My hunch is saddle too, especially from reading through what I have just written out, he has been in this saddle/girth combo both when I re-backed him beginning of Feb for a couple weeks, and all 7 rides this time around so it would be a sudden change toward it. Annoyingly trusted saddle fitter is in Derbyshire, but I have texted to see when she is next down.

I hadn't thought of girth - He had 5 girth straps on the saddle and today, rather than 2nd and 4th straps, I used 2nd and 5th. I wonder if that would be enough to cause such a change.

I would go back to the original arrangement to see if that makes a difference, then if necessary, play about with different variations. Perhaps play around with numnahs/saddle cloths too.

 

[AmyMay]

Would you be prepared to get on him bare back?

 

[Nasicus]

No answers for you, but commiserations on how difficult it can be knowing that to do with youngsters! I've just been through the wringer with mine, but she's thankfully come right, and I'm sure Dex will too once you've identified the issue!

 

[Tiddlypom]

My saintly IDx is very picky about what girth I use.

Her clear favourite is the cheap and cheerful (and frankly rather nasty looking) Wintec elastic chafeless girth. Her thoughts on the ££££s Fairfax girth were unprintable.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

He has also been in the same saddle cloth this whole time (well, 2 but they're the same make exactly just different colours) but happy to try that - I'm sure someone will lend me one.
I will see what mood he is in tomorrow and maybe try having a sit with the girth back where it has been. I do also have a couple other girths sitting around I can try.
I wouldn't get on bareback, but I think experienced friend might so I'll see what she thinks too when she sees him.

No answers for you, but commiserations on how difficult it can be knowing that to do with youngsters! I've just been through the wringer with mine, but she's thankfully come right, and I'm sure Dex will too once you've identified the issue!

Commiserations welcome, thank you! It's so hard to know what to push through and what is communication from him, he's been a bit unmannerly and aloof this week in general and has had a telling off for it in hand which didn't help his mood, he is prone to getting big for his boots every now and again which is why it's hard sometimes to know the difference. He has a pattern of being super good and then doing the 'but what happens if I just say no' thing both in hand, with manners and with new things, which is why I posted to get different opinions. Glad yours is back on the straight and narrow!

 

[Nasicus]

Commiserations welcome, thank you! It's so hard to know what to push through and what is communication from him, he's been a bit unmannerly and aloof this week in general and has had a telling off for it in hand which didn't help his mood, he is prone to getting big for his boots every now and again which is why it's hard sometimes to know the difference. He has a pattern of being super good and then doing the 'but what happens if I just say no' thing both in hand, with manners and with new things, which is why I posted to get different opinions. Glad yours is back on the straight and narrow!

I was honestly at the point of tearing my hair out with mine, I was so stressed about it as she was an angel for her first year, winter off and came back rearing and broncing
And I'm like you, in that I give them the benefit of the doubt, combined with how she only ever grumbled last year if something wasn't right, and was convinced something was wrong. Had everything done, vet visit, teeth, feet, saddle, girth, osteopath, bridle, bit/bitless etc.
As a last ditch before I initiated the proper investigations (Xrays, scoping etc), I got the yard lad to ride her for a couple of weeks, as I'm not balanced enough to safely deal with rearing and the yard lad is a kind rider that will sit on anything. Well here we are 3 weeks on and she's back to her normal happy self, hacking around with me just like before. If anything, she's feeling better than ever! It went against everything I always told myself about them 'acting out'!

Not to say I'm not watching her behaviour like an absolute hawk, and I'll always veer towards checking them over first before pushing through! But it's great to be back on board my little gremlin, with all four feet on the floor this time!

 

[Goldenstar]

It’s very easy to over think with your own young horse it’s why I always sent mine away for riding away .

 

[Xmasha]

we had a saddle fitted for our just backed ID. All was good, then one day she objected a little, nothing major just a slight nap to the gate. Saddle fitter back out and the tree had broken. New saddle, and shes back to being a belter !

 

[Flowerofthefen]

My saintly IDx is very picky about what girth I use.

Her clear favourite is the cheap and cheerful (and frankly rather nasty looking) Wintec elastic chafeless girth. Her thoughts on the ££££s Fairfax girth were unprintable.

My horse is the same with girths!! He has a shires elasticated at one end one. I tried a string girth, he liked it for a little while, tried other much more expensive brands, nope, didn't like those, so back in his shires!!

 

[Gloi]

My first thought is the saddle/girth. He wouldn't be the first horse to have a different opinion from the saddle fitter.

I agree. Horses know if a saddle fits comfortably better than any saddle fitter.

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

I was honestly at the point of tearing my hair out with mine, I was so stressed about it as she was an angel for her first year, winter off and came back rearing and broncing
And I'm like you, in that I give them the benefit of the doubt, combined with how she only ever grumbled last year if something wasn't right, and was convinced something was wrong. Had everything done, vet visit, teeth, feet, saddle, girth, osteopath, bridle, bit/bitless etc.
As a last ditch before I initiated the proper investigations (Xrays, scoping etc), I got the yard lad to ride her for a couple of weeks, as I'm not balanced enough to safely deal with rearing and the yard lad is a kind rider that will sit on anything. Well here we are 3 weeks on and she's back to her normal happy self, hacking around with me just like before. If anything, she's feeling better than ever! It went against everything I always told myself about them 'acting out'!

Not to say I'm not watching her behaviour like an absolute hawk, and I'll always veer towards checking them over first before pushing through! But it's great to be back on board my little gremlin, with all four feet on the floor this time!

That is interesting! It's so difficult without the years of context to go on.

It’s very easy to over think with your own young horse it’s why I always sent mine away for riding away .

This was the plan if he was anything other then straight forward, which really he mostly has been to date, but I have since lost my job so for now that's put paid to this plan for me for now.


I have massage lady booked for early next week now, I am going to try reverting to previous girth placement tomorrow, and then if not a different girth that I have, if still not friend has said I can try her Equitex and if still not experienced friend coming early next week who will sit on bareback and see if any difference. I may even be able to borrow a different saddle to have a try in, so annoying I gave away my treeless! Have texted saddle fitter to see if she is around any time soon, and if all of that fails then I will get the vet out to do a workup. If nothing found then I'll give him a month off and try again, he might be growing or something and I'm in no rush.

 

[Polos Mum]

I find they can be very sensitive to girth types / buckle arrangement.

For a young growing horse doing more and more (going from nothing to 10 mins is more) even the 3 ish weeks since saddler was there could be enough for him to have changed a bit.
My 50p of opinion would be saddle niggling him.

I don't think they be 'babies' by humping and refusing - IMHO.
IF they are comfy and enjoying what they are doing then no need to say no - from their perspective.

 

[holeymoley]

I think those signs are definitely him telling you that he's a bit uncomfortable somewhere.

If he was chancing his luck I'd expect more things like stopping but then moving forward when asked, napping, basically pushing the boundaries but then getting on with it when asked, a bit like a huffy child!

 

[AShetlandBitMeOnce]

If he was chancing his luck I'd expect more things like stopping but then moving forward when asked, napping, basically pushing the boundaries but then getting on with it when asked, a bit like a huffy child!

He has been a bit nappy, but this was an escalation, and to be honest today if I had pushed him harder he would have done what I was asking anyway, but I think that's more because he's kind rather than it telling me anything.
He definitely has huffy child moments so I know what you mean there

 

[Fieldlife]

Could be either, but you probably have to give him benefit of the doubt rather than risk damaging his trust in case there is a pain cause.

I think girth back on same holes, trying a bareback pad, and maybe reverting to long reining / leading out for a few days. Does he pony off another horse? A few hacks like that maybe, if so. And if he does show objections it shows it isnt saddle pain related.

 

[SEL]

He has been a bit nappy, but this was an escalation, and to be honest today if I had pushed him harder he would have done what I was asking anyway, but I think that's more because he's kind rather than it telling me anything.
He definitely has huffy child moments so I know what you mean there

My youngster has lost weight over winter but has still needed a wider headplate in the wow saddle because of shape changing. He's finally remembering cobs are supposed to be broad. He got a bit nappy around the time it was borderline too tight and is happier up one headplate with a thick pad underneath. BUT we've also had a few proper Kevin moments recently too so I understand why its a hard call to make.

 

[paddy555]

no idea if he has a problem or if he is having a"what if I don't moment" and I'm afraid that I haven't read all of your earlier posts so sorry in advance if I have missed something.

Presumably he is familiar with a "girth" in the form of the roller when being long reined? I would then long rein in your saddle and girth, gradually tighten it and see what happens. You may see if there is a bit of resentment and then he just accepts he is going to have to work in it and gets over it or if he really does show signs of pain working on reins with the girth and saddle tight. You can see a lot from the ground.

I have often used a dummy then on the saddle. (for me that is a pair of men's overalls heavily stuffed) and I walk and trot with it, let it fall off and generally mess the horse around with it. Again you can study him from the ground and it is easier to see if this is just a bit of annoyance or if he really has a problem.

I also teach them to go bareback by mounting and just sitting there to mounting and having someone lead the horse and then riding solo around the school area. That way someone is there on the ground to help.

all of that is easy to do yourself, costs nothing and may give you some clue as to whether this is pain or simply Kevin. If any part worked I would do it for 2/3 weeks so for example long reining with the tack on just became part of life and a couple of weeks off riding may give him time either for an attitude change or for any slight discomfort (eg from grass/time of year etc) to resolve.

If you get that far and sending away is not an option then possibly paying an experienced young horse rider/friend who he is not so familiar with to take him out a few times could be a possibility.

one of mine (older) got a bit grumpy so I gave a little mg that seemed to help at this time of the year.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It sounds like it could be saddle thet change shape very quickly.

Be careful putting different pads with it especially a thicker one because if it's on the tight side already a thicker pad will make it worse.

I do think equitex are quite thick I wouldn't try it under a saddle that hasn't been fitted to accommodate it, go back to your original girthing straps with your regular pad and try again it could just be as simple as the girthing being different.