Just booked the Vet to come out and test for cushings

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Hedwards

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Just looking for a bit of advice from anyone with any experience of cushings. I do know a little about the disease, but really more looking for the management advice as a 'just in case'

Connie has been retired since the middle of this year, she had concussive lami in one foreleg last year, and after a full recovery (she has a heart bar on the bad foot) and a little bit of work earlier on in the year, I decided to let her retire (she just wasnt interesting in work like she had been before), She's 21 in a couple of months.

Her winter coat is unbelievable, really really thick and long, she is very sweaty at the moment too. Her stable has always been quite wet, but it seems wetter than normal at the moment (although she isnt drinking masses - certainly no more than she has done in the past).

So I've just called the vets as I'm thinking there is a high possiblity she has cushings, and I'd rather know as early as possible, to get them out to do the blood tests.

So...for those that have dealt with it, what would you recommend if it is Cushings rather than just a thick coat and being too hot.

I know Prascend is the drug used, and understand its very expensive - I'd have to weigh this up if she is diagnosed and requires it (there is a very long story with Connie and her ownership - I took her on loan over 2 years ago - from the day I collected her up until now I have seen her owner once - and she has since dissappeared of the face of the planet...) She is insured, but for her age only 3rd party and injury, illness isnt covered, but dont get me wrong, I'm not saying I wouldnt pay for it!!

Anyway, anyone who can offer advice/experiences, i'd be really grateful
 
I have a 23yo mare with cushings that was diagnosed last year, she was lame on and off for a bit then went really lame, blood test came back with really high ACTH & insulin levels (insulin levels most likely causing the laminitius), she was put on Pergolide and Metformin, not off the metformin and just on Pergolide.
She doesn't get turned out on the frost as this will trigger another laminitus attack, gets soaked hay and very little feed.
Depending on the horse depends on how much you have to watch the sugar in take (now gets carrots instead of mints).
She was diagnosed at the end of August 2010 and had 3mnths box rest because of the laminitus (then the snow came and she was in for a another few months!!!). She is now back in work trying to kill the children when they are riding her, no long coat and generally back to thinking she is 5 not 23 and a bit of a fruit loop:)
I have had 6 blood tests done in the past year, just to get the pergolide level correct and the vet has said that we can probably get away with 2 a year now, one in spring and one in autumn when the sugar levels change in the grass. She is on restricted grazing and only goes out on the grass for a few hours in the summer but she does get a bit 'curvy' in the summer.

See if your vet will write you a script for Pergolide and get it from Tesco pharmacy (£66.90 for 100 1mg tablets) much cheaper.
The other thing to watch for is they can (not always) become depressed and off their food when they start medication for about a week called the Pergolide Veil, contact the vet if it persists for more than a week.
 
Our girl was diagnosed last winter at the age of 16 - she got quite fluffy and the worst thing for her was the continuing laminitis (caused by the Cushings). She was also suffering seizures and it near broke our hearts to see her so poorly.
She now has heart bar shoes on and is managed as a strict lami - Happy Hoof feed, soaked hay, restricted grazing, regular exercise. She has very little sugar - sugar free Polos are a god send! ;) and she has learnt to like celery as a treat.
She does get quite sweaty when it comes to winter, so we just clip her neck and belly off :)
She's on 1mg a day and improved within 2 weeks, we couldn't believe the change in her - it's been a long road, but she's sound and happy :) 12 months ago, she couldn't walk out of her stable: today she ran round the indoor school, bucking and farting like a 2 year old. Hooligan :p
good luck I hope you get sorted
K x
 
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Box_Of_Frogs has just had her old boy diagnosed with Cushings, if you PM her I'm sure she'll be more than happy to give you as much info as you like - she's trying to raise awareness for it now too. Actually I'm sure she has already posted about it if you search through her threads :)
 
My little 21 year old got diagnosed with cushings about a month ago. He had no classic symptoms (no excessive drinking, lethargy, depression etc etc) until he came in foot sore one evening and got put on box rest for what was meant to be 2 weeks but after 3 days he was rearing over his stable door so ended up in a bare paddock and was treated as being a 'laminitic pony.':rolleyes: My very kind vet who phoned me that night detailing how to treat him said instantly 'I think it could be cushings,' and hey presto a blood test 3 days later showed his levels to be at 76 when the norm should be 49. It was a shock as it was just out of the blue but when the vet came up to visit him he said he looked like a classic cushings pony. They should have an indent above the eye, and my boy had none (as it fills with fat), a slightly sway back and pot belly with fat pads up on the top of his bum. The law has changed regarding prascend and pergolide and vets have to prescribe you prascendas its the licensed drug for horses. HOWEVER my vet got round this by giving me pergolide tablets of the lowest dose, smaller than you can achieve with half tablet of prascend. We both knew this will probably not stabilise his levels, but once he's been given it, the vet can continue prescribing it and he is being blood tested in a couple of weeks.

You can get a money £15 off voucher for a cushings test before the end of november due to the boehringer campaign. Google it. He is now out in a muzzle 24/7 with just an hour of freedom from it (which he spends sleeping!)and gets light exercise everyday just to keep him moving. Cushing ponies should be treated as laminitics and always be aware of the grass quality and its made me more aware of how many carrots and treats he gets!It's true that the first couple of days they become a little depressed and lose their appetite as mine just stood in the field looking thoroughly fed up but within 4 days or so he's back to his cheeky, houdini field escaping adventures!
 
Hi Hedwards, yes that does sound pretty much like text book Cushings. You need the ACTH blood test done to see how severe she has it. In the autumn, the ACTH count should be 29.7. Following my own horse being diagnosed 5 weeks ago with ACTH count of 200 (!!!), my YO also had 3 of hers tested. One was ok at 22, one was diagnosed as "mild" Cushings at 40.5 and the 3rd was diagnosed as "moderate" at 45.something. The vets recommended Pergolide/Prascend at 1mg for both the positive test horses. I know some people will choose not to start their horse on Pergolide/Prascend due to the cost, and will choose to use a herbal product agnus castus (something like that). But the herbal product has not undergone any scientific testing and according to my vets produces no long term benefits. The danger in not giving Pergolide is that the symptoms will continue to worsen. You will know that it's caused by a problem with the pituitary gland in the brain. This gland is known as the "master gland" because it regulates so many systems in the horse's body. Symptoms can include depression, loss of appetite, inability to control body temperature, coat shedding problems, ataxia, confusion, weight loss, abnormal fat deposits, increased susceptibility to laminitis, increased drinking and urination (as the horse tries to flush the excess cortisol hormone from its body) and liver problems. If these symptoms are ignored, they will eventually be fatal. And it's worth remembering that every horse with Cushings, if it lives long enough, WILL get laminitis. My veteran is now on 2mg Pergolide per day and a 2nd blood test shows it has brought his ACTH count down to a high-normal leve of 30.2. He's back to his old self again, thank god, but he has his age (27) against him, statistically. I hope that Pergolide, monitored carefully (as the horse will need different levels in the spring and the autumn) will give him another year or two of active and happy life but I know I walk a fine line with him as regards quality of life. I would strongly recommend you visit talkaboutcushings.com and Laminitis Trust website for reliable information. The laminitis trust in particular pulls no punches and explains everything very carefully, good and bad. Your vets may have their excellent Cushings leaflet in the surgery.

In your situation, I'd get an immediate ACTH test done so you know what you're dealing with. If it comes back as "mild" you might get away with a few more months without having to do anything but the longer you leave it, the higher the risk is that Pergolide wouldn't offer much help. I'd certainly start Pergolide immediately - you will be stunned at how much difference it will make in just a week or two. Good luck and please do PM me if I can help further x
 
Box_Of_Frogs said:
You need the ACTH blood test done to see how severe she has it. In the autumn, the ACTH count should be 29.7. Following my own horse being diagnosed 5 weeks ago with ACTH count of 200 (!!!), my YO also had 3 of hers tested. One was ok at 22, one was diagnosed as "mild" Cushings at 40.5 and the 3rd was diagnosed as "moderate" at 45.something.
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My vet told me the opposite that the autumn ACTH level should be around 44 (blood test 3 weeks ago mine had 25) and that spring summer levels should be around 29 (previous blood test hers was 45 so the pergolide got up'd again from 0.5 tablet to 1 tablet).
I've have loads of tests done after the initial diagnosis last September about every 6 weeks for 4 blood tests, then every 12 weeks for the last 2 and the vet is now happy that she seems to be on the correct dose and qill leave her now until March.

Just going to text my vet's about the ranges for autumn:)
 
Thanks everyone, Connie is treated as though she is a lami horse, because she is, although only in one foot (which has been put down to her conformation in that leg).

BoxofFrogs - i found your recent posts about your boy yesterday, and they were really useful, and thanks so much for the advice on here

I'm waiting on my Vet to call me today to arrange the visit for the bloods, I am a little worried, I know that if she is diagnosed its going to be a slippery slope until I have to make 'the' decision even if its years down the line, its always going to be there in the back of my mind...

Thanks again all, really helpful information!
 
If the test is positive it can be good news. Prascend can be a 'magic' drug and make the management of the horse so much easier - as long as you can keep the weight off then they tend to be much more tolerant of situations that before would have given them laminitus and they tend to be happier horses.

Regarding the cost. Expensive yes, especially if you have my vet, who is very money orientated. Before you get the test, ring up the Vets and ask how much they charge for a prescription. Then check out (search on here) and see the best value Prascend you can buy ..... then if the test comes back positive you know which route to go down.

But for me, the fact that I can now keep the horse out 24/7 (save on hay), don't have to be quite so cautious and don't have to spend fortunes on farrier for abcesses, bandages, etc makes Prascend cost effective to date!!
 
My shettie was also diagnosed with cushings 2 years ago he was only 13 but the signs were clearly there he was a cushings sufferer. He developed very mild lami and I immediatly took him off the grass and rang the vet, I explained he held his coat almost untill july and seemed to be drinking and weeing a bit more than normal. We did the test and it showed he did have mild cushins, he went onto pergolide and was retested 1 month later, his levels had become normal and he now gets tested once a year to make sure the meds do not need adjusting.
The pergolide did make him depressed to start with and getting him to eat his bucket was very hard, I have found even right up untill today he has to be hungry to eat his bucket. But once we sorted out what was the right ammount of hay he could have or the ammount of grass at his disposal over night we could always make sure he was just a bit hungry when his bucket with meds in would be eaten up, and now even has a rodeo around his paddock when he sees me arrive. I never offer him hay untill the bucket has been eaten or he will just walk off from the bucket and eat the hay.
Two years on he has never had lami again and he lives out 24/7 but he now has his own small paddock next door to my other horses so he can still see and feel part of the herd. His coat is still stubbon to shed in spring but if I am honest he never really did shed his coat untill quite late even has a youngster, his water intake has gone back to normal.
Finding out he had cushions to start wih was a worry, but its been the making of him, I now wonder how long he actually had it for before I noticed he had it, I always thought it was an old horse/pony disease and he was quite young to have it. Good luck with yours :)
 
The_snoopster said:
I now wonder how long he actually had it for before I noticed he had it, I always thought it was an old horse/pony disease and he was quite young to have it. Good luck with yours :)
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My mare was 22yo when diagnosed and it was lami that diagnosed it rather than the coat, but I also wonder how long she had it before the blood test came back. Someone on another thread had talked about Pergolide taking 10 years off the horses age and I've certainly found this as well, spends her evenings at the moment teaching the kids how to stay on as she takes off round the school again throwing in a buck here and there to make sure they're still paying attention:)
Mine thinks she's a Highland Pony and will eat the tablet out of your hand, never got affected by the pergolide veil either (but I certain that she will be on her back with 4 legs in the air before she refuses food!!!)

racebuddy said:
how much does it cost for you to have the acth stim test done many thanks xx
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I think it depends on the vet, mines are about £100 (including the call out), her bloods get tested for ACTH and insulin (and other things that the vet never mentions), I have been advised that I can just get tests done for ACTH levels but the difference in price I would rather keep an eye on her insulin levels as well as they were through the roof last year but now under control.
I think I had to get so many blood test initially because of the time of year she was diagnosed as the ACTH levels are generally rather high anyway in September/October time, easier this year as they had last years results to compare against and know if it was high because of cushings or high because of the time of year. A lot of places advise not to test in autumn because of the seasonal variance in the levels, but to test Spring/Summer & Winter, however the OP will have results to compare next autumn to know if it's seasonal or not.
The test after the medication is started so they know if it needs to be increased/decreased, mines started on 1 x 1mg tablet, dropped to 0.5 x 1mg tablet in April and went back up to 1 x 1mg tablet in July, they just need to find the dose that works for your horse.
 
My girl is also recently diagnosed. She is 19 and had an unexpected bout of lammi at the end of Summer, she had never had lammi before. Vet came out to treat her for the lammi and immediately suggested testing for Cushings and EMS.

First ACTH results came back at 97....she was put straight on to 1mg of Peroglide/Prascend and went through the Peroglide veil which was very worrying as she simply couldnt seem to get through it - very depressed, lethargic and lost her appetite which became difficult because she is also on daily meds for COPD and without an appetite getting feed down her was virtually impossible!

She's just been blood tested two weeks ago and her levels have dropped to 18 so the Peroglide has been dropped to half the original dosage. She will be retested in a month to see if this dosage is adequate.

The lammi put her on box rest but she quickly recovered and had front shoes put back on with additional supports to lift her feet.

She is now out every day and in at night with soaked hay (she's always had it soaked anyway due to the COPD). A bit of a tweak with her dinner (less hi fi lite and a small handful of high fibre nuts and she now munches her dinner and meds - the Peroglide I feed by hand in the mornings when I greet her over the door.

She is ridden 4-5 times a week.

I found additional time, love and exercise has helped - my vet recommended as much exercise as possible - luckily she was sound after box rest.

She has lost a little weight - but looks better for it and I do notice she wees alot more this year.

Looking back, there were signs last year - she was very hairy and sweated just stood in her box.

If you wish to PM me at any time, I will help (and support you!) where I can.

Wishing you luck and a big hug x
 
I've just posted about this too! My boy is being starvation blood tested for Cushings and insulin resistance a week on Thursday.

I'll keep an eye out for an update post from you with the results! I have no clue about the condition either.
 
Also in the "cushings crue". My mare had levels of 118 in May and has been on 1 tablet a day for it. She hasn't been retested since vet doesn't see the point. (Vet visits yard every week) she seems very happy and in full work ridden 6 times a week. Only out for 4 hours ish a day since she isn't a hardy outdoor pony by nature anyway. Prascend is a brilliant drug and can give them years of active life! Good luck to you and your cushy pony
 
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