Just feel like giving up... :(

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I have a rising 4 yr old connemara, broke him in fine in september last year all was fine, got a master saddler out 2 weeks after having backed him, got a brand new saddle fitted to him, 2 weeks after being bucked off 4 times came to terms with that the saddle did not fit... got saddler back out who said it was fine!! swapped saddle back to original saddle which i backed him in which was not perfect but he was happier in. He had a bit of time off, rode on and off in this saddle. Was not bucked off at all. Got another master saddler out who said he d totally re flock the lot and it would fit costing me £200!! fine got that done, a week into having this saddle back and after being bucked off a further 4 times last week, took the tough decision to send him to an expert, thinking saddle was fine and it was him being naughty. Had a phone call tonight from guy i sent him too, he says the saddle is the route of my problem, he would't dream of putting it on my pony. So I am now going to get a new saddle... thats fine but feel so dis-heartened by saddlers and just horses in general. Sorry its a rant but am so down about it!! Thought I could trust master saddlers :(
 
I feel your pain. I went through three saddles and two master saddlers before I got the fourth saddle (fitted by saddler number three) that actually properly fitted my mare.
 
I feel your pain, it is horrible when you think you are doing the best thing for your horse and trusting a so called 'expert' to guide you. It goes to show that qualifications don't always mean people are good at their jobs. I always try and get reccommendations of people who have been used successfully by others if I dont have someone I use regularly. Hope you get your saddle sorted and it hasn't broken the bank! :)
 
So sorry to hear that, but lucky you found out and weren't badly injured. I would be tempted to go go back to the saddlers - that's a lot of money to lose! I had a similar thing with a horse dentist once - you need to be wary and trust your instinct and others advice. Like you say - you would think you could put your trust in the expert, but so often is not the case.
 
Thank you everyone for your support it has helped, just hope I can get it sorted am going to ring the reflocking saddler tomorrow but don't want him back out!! It is going to break the bank at this rate!! 3rd time lucky eh??!!
 
I certainly would not advise any customer to buy a brand new saddle for a youngster, best to wait until they have filled out a bit around 6 years of age before they spend a lot of hard earned money on a new saddle as 9 times out of 10 they change shape quite considerably.
Best to go for a decently made secondhand until the youngster has finsihed growing.
I have actually refused to sell a new saddle to people because of the above reason, wasn't very popular with them and wasn't asked back !!
The horse always comes first though doesn't it.
Oz
 
The first badly fitted saddle was new and it was horrible tbh, but thought it fitted. 2nd one that was totally reflocked was a second hand ideal saddle, which i preferred as I agree hes going to carry on growing.. plus i would rather spend a bit less!!
 
The saddlers would have known that your horse would still be growing as well as being in a soft condition, perfect recipe for a bad back on a horse that has a new saddle fitted!
It's not rocket science is it, just common sense, so why did they get you to have a brand new saddle?
Oz
 
I said I wanted a 2nd hand as could't afford a new, she did wither measurements etc popped on a few 2nd hand and was not happy, then put on this new one and seemed v happy! I went with the expert thinking it was best for pony.... now I think she just got more money from the sale!!
 
unicornleather said:
I certainly would not advise any customer to buy a brand new saddle for a youngster, best to wait until they have filled out a bit around 6 years of age before they spend a lot of hard earned money on a new saddle as 9 times out of 10 they change shape quite considerably.
Best to go for a decently made secondhand until the youngster has finsihed growing.
I have actually refused to sell a new saddle to people because of the above reason, wasn't very popular with them and wasn't asked back !!
The horse always comes first though doesn't it.
Oz
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I agree with this. I bought an ex-demo Thorowgood Endurance T4 synthetic from my saddler for my 4YO: it has an changeable gullet, and I currently own two different widths, as he changed shape as he grew.

Feel really sorry for you, as you have spent an awful lot of money :-( x
 
I have rather a distrust of saddlers in general after being bucked off my pony far too many times due to ill-fitting saddles that three supposedly reputable saddlers told me fitted. One saddler said my pony was so wide that nothing would fit her (I ditched her pretty quick). Got to the fourth one and he couldn't understand why there had been all the fuss, as the pony had a back that meant a Wintec would fit perfectly. Suited me fine as they were cheap! Got one, then bought a dressage one too and never looked back. Went back to original saddler (as she runs a shop so popped in to pick something up and got chatting) and she couldn't fathom how a Wintec would be wide enough for the pony and was convinced I'd have trouble sooner or later... pony has since been sold on to a woman in the same village and I still see her in that same old Wintec - they've never had any trouble either!

It takes a while to find a good saddler IMO (I've stuck to mine like glue since I found him, won't let anyone else fiddle with my saddles) so it's a shame you've had to find that out with a baby. I hope you find a good saddler soon and get the problem fixed! :)
 
bumper said:
I agree with this. I bought an ex-demo Thorowgood Endurance T4 synthetic from my saddler for my 4YO: it has an changeable gullet, and I currently own two different widths, as he changed shape as he grew.

Feel really sorry for you, as you have spent an awful lot of money :-( x
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The first saddle which didn't fit was a throrowgood T4 cob.. he hated it!! One width was to tight the bigger one was way too wide!!
 
It's better on a youngster to be over wide than too narrow, too narrow will impede muscle growth and pinch causing pain.Too wide can be over flocked it to lift it up.
There's not usually alot in between width measurements and it would enable this to be done.
Years ago saddlers would have used knitted wither pads to take up the slack on over wide saddles, haven't seen any of those for a while now though.
You usually find too on a youngster but not always before I get jumped on for saying this, the trapezius tends to come up quite large once they are in work as they tend to get on the forehand.
Once they have had the correct schooling and learn to balance themselves up, drawing in their hocks underneath them to give the correct topline it will have the effect of lifting the saddle up and what fitted even 3 months before may not fit now. As I said a good saddler would know all this and would not even think about selling a brand new expensive saddle as 6 months down the line or even less it simply won't fit unless you are very very lucky!
Did the saddler flock up the saddle on site at the time of sale?
It should be done as most new saddles come under flocked enabling the likes of us to fit it and flock it to the profile of the horse, most horses muscle up more on the nearside than the offside and we have to flock to compensate this. If it is done on site at the time of sale then we can keep trying it back on the horse if needs be to get it 100% spot on.
Did the saddler fit the saddle to you as well which is important?
To just slap a new saddle on a horse and not flock it will result in the flock going flat quite quickly and will have a nutcracker effect on the horse's spine, causing pain, Oz
 
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Nope no flocking was done on the first saddle when it was bought was just slapped on the pony ridden in and she was like fine! had her back out when complained and she said it was not too tight, but changed the width so it was in XW but was way to wide and did't want to pad it out as the saddle was not worth the hassle in my view!!
 
unicornleather said:
.
Did the saddler fit the saddle to you as well which is important?
To just slap a new saddle on a horse and not flock it will result in the flock going flat quite quickly and will have a nutcracker effect on the horse's spine, causing pain, Oz
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Would this apply to an older horse as well? I ask as we have problems with back after the last (2nd) fitting of our saddle.
 
If the saddle was new, then yes, definately.

Secondhand saddles will probably need "tweaking a little" too as they would have moulded themselves to the shape of the last horse it was used on, it may just need a little flock up or even some taken out to get the fit right.
Very rarely have I fitted a secondhand saddle on a horse and it needed nothing doing to it.
Oz
 
unicornleather said:
If the saddle was new, then yes, definately.

Secondhand saddles will probably need "tweaking a little" too as they would have moulded themselves to the shape of the last horse it was used on, it may just need a little flock up or even some taken out to get the fit right.
Very rarely have I fitted a secondhand saddle on a horse and it needed nothing doing to it.
Oz
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Was a new saddle, not flocked, and at second fitting just gusset(?) changed and no other fitting. No sitting not even walking horse around.
 
Gullet plate you mean, gusset is in the rear of the panel.
I like to see the saddle on the horse without saddlecloth, numnah or pads of any kind lightly girthed to hold it in place, I have a look to see if it fits at all, take a measurement, then it is girthed up properly and another inspection and more measurements taken.
If it fits well enough, I then ask the rider to mount up, another inspection to see if the rider fits the saddle and how much the saddle lowers itself with the rider's weight in it, more measurements taken. Then if I am happy with that I will see the rider riding round the school, it can hi light any problems so needs to be seen at walk, trot and canter if possible then I flock it and re check it in the school with the rider on it.
There's alot more to it than this but I am trying to brief it!
Saddlers should take extensive notes (like a doctor would) and will be able to use those for reference in the future, so ask to see the saddlers notes if possible to see what was written at the time and then compare it to how it fits now.

Oz
Forgot to add, I usually try the gullet plate on the horse before I try it in the saddle itself, it is much easier to see if it fits the withers this way.
 
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unicornleather said:
Gullet plate you mean, gusset is in the rear of the panel.
I like to see the saddle on the horse without saddlecloth, numnah or pads of any kind lightly girthed to hold it in place, I have a look to see if it fits at all, take a measurement, then it is girthed up properly and another inspection and more measurements taken.
If it fits well enough, I then ask the rider to mount up, another inspection to see if the rider fits the saddle and how much the saddle lowers itself with the rider's weight in it, more measurements taken. Then if I am happy with that I will see the rider riding round the school, it can hi light any problems so needs to be seen at walk, trot and canter if possible then I flock it.
There's alot more to it than this but I am trying to brief it!
Saddlers should take extensive notes (like a doctor would) and will be able to use those for reference in the future, so ask to see the saddlers notes if possible to see what was written at the time and then compare it to how it fits now.

Oz
Forgot to add, I usually try the gullet plate on the horse before I try it in the saddle itself, it is much easier to see if it fits the withers this way.
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I thought as much, Fitter saw my wife as an easy touch. 2nd opinion on thurs, see what he has to say.:)
 
2nd opinion done today,:( verdict: It's the right length.:eek:
Apparantly its sitting wrong, causing rubbing on his back and seeawing about the girth. :mad: and it's the wrong shape and cramping his shoulders.
Am I just nieve to expect a "master" saddle fitter to fit a saddle to my horse or should I expect to be ripped off?
 
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Very useful post Oz thanks.

What are your thoughts on big competition yards using the same medium width close contact saddle on every horse on the yard?
The one's i know never seem to have any problems with bad backs even on the long term horses. How is this ???
 
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Have seen so many friends ripped off by people fitting saddles. At the time they have them they proclaim them to be wonderful & the best thing ever, few months down the line they're rubbish. Found very few with good reputations (no offence to any honest/talented fitters, just you're in the minority). Have only ever come across two I would use, nutwell near bicton (seen 2 saddles fitted by them, both fit very well & horses very happy) Malcolm in Cheshire, who sells podium endurance saddles (as well as 'normal' saddles).
 
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Tell me about it.

I've always fitted saddles myself with all my past ponies and horses, never had a problem.

But for some reason when I go lado, I thought no, I'll leave to it the pro's, seen as their trained, qualified and experienced, I'll pay to get my saddles fitted and checked etc seen as its the 'right thing to do these days' ended up problems, never again.
 
I also have learnt about Saddle Fitters the hard way, they are not magicians, just people trying to make a living.

a) It sounds as if your horse maybe a little bit difficult to fit so you need to do a lot of reading up about saddle fitting so you can have a really really good view. Every person you can, talk to them about their saddle, why they think it fits, why there are using that numnah. Just educate yourself as much as you can so you can have an informed opinion, ask the right questions, etc, etc.

b) Can you have someone else with you when the Saddle Fitter comes. I always make sure there are a couple of people with good opinions around as sometimes I can be a little bit distracted by having to ride infront of a stranger.

c) Do you have a good back person/McTimoney practitioner near you. Might be worth considering asking them for a view about the saddle and also getting them out say 3 weeks after the saddle fitting to see whether there are any problems arising.

d) There is a pad you can put under the saddle when you ride which shows how even the pressure is. You can hire them for about £50. If you are interested PM me and I will look up the name and who hires them.

Good luck.
 
Interesting thread. A lot of people seem to trust the expert without actually taking a critical eye to saddle fit themselves, or checking their own horse's back regularly. Neither are hard to do, and neither take much time. I have mostly youngsters, and they change shape as they grow, muscle up, change condition with the time of year etc. My preference is a slightly too wide saddle, and we adjust the padding underneath as appropriate. Their backs are checked before and after each ride (there's always the odd tweak from the field and I would rather be aware than just get on oblivious!), and I have happy, eager to work horses as a result. We also look at the sweat patterns on their backs/numnahs regularly.
 
mystiandsunny said:
Interesting thread. A lot of people seem to trust the expert without actually taking a critical eye to saddle fit themselves, or checking their own horse's back regularly. Neither are hard to do, and neither take much time. I have mostly youngsters, and they change shape as they grow, muscle up, change condition with the time of year etc. My preference is a slightly too wide saddle, and we adjust the padding underneath as appropriate. Their backs are checked before and after each ride (there's always the odd tweak from the field and I would rather be aware than just get on oblivious!), and I have happy, eager to work horses as a result. We also look at the sweat patterns on their backs/numnahs regularly.
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Well,thats sounds ok if you are with horses all your life and you know what you'r doing and what you'r looking for.But what about first time owners,or people who just came to horsey world?They tend to trust qualified saddle fitters who say they they are the best,and put they'r trust in them,and as a result just ripped off theyr money,and must buy new saddle,cos the one they just bought is a wrong shape and wrong for theyr horse!!!
 
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