just missed having my head kicked off this morning..

[lula]

said id feed another livery's tb boodmares for her as a favor as she couldnt get down this morning. They live out 24/7. there's just the 2 of them, the bay is definitely pregnant, the chestnut not so sure. neither are in work

only discovered this morning they are on 2 scoops oats and nuts fed in the field. so i open the gate with the bucket in my hand and the chestnut, who is the boss is waiting. I shoo her back, she turns round to flatten her ears at the other horse and at the same time double barrels me with her hind legs, and when i say 'double barrel' i dont mean just a kick out, she leaps into the air with her front legs and then bucks kicking out with both legs behind. she hasnt got shoes but that amount of force she puts in is really going to do some damage.

i jumped out of the way, but i cant tell you how close she was to kicking me right in the head, well to give you an idea, she kicked the bucket which was i was holding right out of my hand up and up in the air landing 6 feet away.
i turned the air blue with the names i called her.

i saw her doing the same thing when a friend of the owner was trying to pick the horses back feet up the other day.

that horse was a pussy cat in the summer. A really gentle mare. i cant help wondering if the oats she's being fed being a tb have just turned her mental..or if she's just thoroughly miserable out in the cold, unrugged and being a bit of a cow.

i dont think im going to be doing that particular livery any favors with feeding them from now.

would you mention the incident to her and perhaps suggest she cut out the oats or just leave it?

 

[kerilli]

i'd DEFINITELY mention it. you're v lucky she missed. i hope you had witnesses though because people can be very odd about this sort of thing... i had a livery's horse do this many years ago (nearly took my OH's head off), smashed the fence instead as he was ducking through it, and she absolutely denied that her horse would EVER have tried to kick anybody, would not accept it at all, got v nasty about it.
sounds as if the mare needs bringing out to be fed alone, or something... shod or not, that's horribly dangerous for people and other horses.
are they squabbling over hay? seems odd for her to be that mardy if there's only 1 other horse in the field...

 

[DragonSlayer]

I'd tell her what happened but not suggest what she does about the feeding as that is her business. I'd also tell her you won't be doing it again....

Glad you are OK though!

I'd be mortified if my horse did this to someone, I'd make sure only I would be feeding them in future, and actually start getting said mare in a headcollar and removing her frm the field to feed from a bucket outside for everyones safety!

 

[Wagtail]

Sheesh! I can't believe how some people look after their horses. Oats for an unworked horse! They should be on lots of hay/haylage and some much more suitable feed such as Hi fi and nuts or just a balancer. She was probably hungry and cold. This is the usual reason for such antics.

 

[Ladyinred]

Oats plus the possibility of pregnancy hormones are not a good mix! Feed should be as Wagtail suggests. But I can guarantee you would get no thanks for telling her that...

 

[SpruceRI]

This is what some horses are like if fed in the field.

If I were her owner I'd change the routine slightly. In that I'd go and catch the horse and tie it up and the other one, before giving them the feed.

I wouldn't offer to feed it again until it's learnt some manners!

 

[Jenni_]

I've had a bad experience with a moody mare that was 'maybe' pregnant. 2 back feet to the face ended up with me in the facial reconstruction unit having plastic surgery to put my face back together at 14 years old- same as you, just went to feed her and she turned on me as I shut her door.

I now have metal plated jawand hideous amounts of scar tissue along my gums.

I'm so glad she missed you!

 

[MerrySherryRider]

Definitely wouldn't feed loose in the field. If its not practical to bring in, then put a head collar on the bossy one and stand with her outside the field while leaving the other one in the field and then give feed to them.
Its not unusual behaviour and you really need to check with the owner that the horses are good to feed together before putting yourself at risk. The results can be nasty if one is very dominant over food.

 

[Alfie&Milo]

My 6 year old welsh mare keeps doing this! She's about 8 months pregnant and has turned into a horrible beast! I'll be in the field taking photos and occasionally she'll trot up to me, swing her back end round and kick out from a couple of metres away. I don't think hers is food related I think its a dominance/hormonal thing but still, she is being a cow!

 

[Enfys]

Sheesh! I can't believe how some people look after their horses. Oats for an unworked horse! They should be on lots of hay/haylage and some much more suitable feed such as Hi fi and nuts or just a balancer. She was probably hungry and cold. This is the usual reason for such antics.

I feed mine oats, stallion, broodmares, babies, youngsters, in work, out of work, tbs, QH's, arabians, morgans, sb's, the lot of them. They live out 24/7, mostly unrugged, and they do very well on them, never turned any of them stupid.

How do we know they do not have ad-lib forage, the OP's original post didn't mention anything like that.

 

[Mare Stare]

Sheesh! I can't believe how some people look after their horses. Oats for an unworked horse! They should be on lots of hay/haylage and some much more suitable feed such as Hi fi and nuts or just a balancer. She was probably hungry and cold. This is the usual reason for such antics.

My friend feeds all her broodies and youngsters oats with good results. I've never known any to be silly. They all live out with ad lib hay.

 

[kerilli]

Jenni_, you're one of a few people I know who have been double-barrelled in the face by a broodmare. huge sympathy.
i wouldn't feed a non-working horse oats either. they're heating, why would you want a non-working (hard) horse to have heating feed? i'd feed forage, balancer, perhaps other things to fatten up but surely not high protein/energy levels if not working? or do i have hold of the wrong end of the stick here?

 

[starryeyed]

I'd definitely tell the owner what happened - if she doesn't already know how the mare is behaving then she needs to! And say you don't feel comfortable going to feed them after what happened, so that she knows it was serious and not "just a kick out". I wouldn't personally mention the feed - unless you get into a discussion over why she may be doing it, where you can say that it may be the oats causing it, or the other factors such as her being miserable in the weather, cold etc. Glad you were okay!

 

[lula]

Oats plus the possibility of pregnancy hormones are not a good mix! Feed should be as Wagtail suggests. But I can guarantee you would get no thanks for telling her that...

absolutely, thats why ive been reluctant to mention the feeding b/c its usually not exactly well received.

They arent getting ANY hay b/c apparently the owner cant be arsed to lug it over to the field- although i have offered to help with this as fair enough she's in her 60's and it cnat be easy for her but she turned me down as it being 'too much hassle' so is feeding them oats and nuts once a day to keep them warm, but ******* it was dangerous this morning and if this is going to be typical behaviour from now on god knows how the owner could cope so i will mention it.
Personally, i agree i think the mare is miserable and cold, she's thin skinned TB, unrugged and hasnt really much coat, but what can you do? you can only offer to help and advise isnt accepted you cant force anyone..

i am en experienced horse handler and i dont mind helping her out but if her horse injures me then i wont be able to do my own so i cant risk it.

 

[Cortez]

Jenni_, you're one of a few people I know who have been double-barrelled in the face by a broodmare. huge sympathy.
i wouldn't feed a non-working horse oats either. they're heating, why would you want a non-working (hard) horse to have heating feed? i'd feed forage, balancer, perhaps other things to fatten up but surely not high protein/energy levels if not working? or do i have hold of the wrong end of the stick here?

You're skating on thin ice to question others' feeding regimes! Oats are a perfectly good feed for horses (and broodmares, even if only "maybe" pregnant, need as much high energy/protein as working horses) and are not necessarily automatically heating. I'd never trust a horse when feeding loose - we feed "out" horses on the fence, from the other side.

 

[lula]

I'd definitely tell the owner what happened - if she doesn't already know how the mare is behaving then she needs to! And say you don't feel comfortable going to feed them after what happened, so that she knows it was serious and not "just a kick out". I wouldn't personally mention the feed - unless you get into a discussion over why she may be doing it, where you can say that it may be the oats causing it, or the other factors such as her being miserable in the weather, cold etc. Glad you were okay!

thankyou!
you know when these things happen so quickly with sharp horses and im careful never to go near this ones hindquarters but she just spun round so quickly and gave it to me.. thankgod she just got the bucket i was holding which, full of feed for 2 horses was not light and landed upside down 6 feet away.
Im not sure if she intended to get me as she had turned to flatten her ears at the other mare but its appalling manners and really needs to be dealt with

 

[lula]

You're skating on thin ice to question others' feeding regimes! Oats are a perfectly good feed for horses (and broodmares, even if only "maybe" pregnant, need as much high energy/protein as working horses) and are not necessarily automatically heating. I'd never trust a horse when feeding loose - we feed "out" horses on the fence, from the other side.

ok, now im interested in this. I would never consider oats to be a suitable feed for a horse out of work. Thats why the owner tells me she's feeding oats, to keep them warm as she's not feeding forage.

so there is logic in this?

altho, lets be clear, its non of my business what this particular owner does or what she feeds, I can only suggest, but id be very interested to learn more about feeding oats to broodmares?

 

[Persephone]

Firstly, sorry about your near miss. Horrible isn't it.

Regarding oats, as I understand it they are a perfectly good feed for non working horses as they are good for maintaining weight. Having said that some horses react badly to them, as say barley.

I would suspect that the issue here was that they are cold and used to the exremely bad practice of being fed in the field.

Is there enough grass that they don't need extra forage?

 

[Wagtail]

Enfrys, you don't think oats are heating then? I agree that with some horses they are not. I have two on my yard who are fed oats and do well on them. As for the other six, I wouldn't want to go there.

The behaviour displayed by this mare could not only be down to oats. But I think it could be a contributing factor. She behaved like a cold and hungry horse.

 

[lula]

I've had a bad experience with a moody mare that was 'maybe' pregnant. 2 back feet to the face ended up with me in the facial reconstruction unit having plastic surgery to put my face back together at 14 years old- same as you, just went to feed her and she turned on me as I shut her door.

I now have metal plated jawand hideous amounts of scar tissue along my gums.

I'm so glad she missed you!

christ jenni, im so sorry you went through that. I do hope you're ok now and thankyou for sharing that.
i think the only reason im not there now myself is about 4inches!!

Just shows how quickly your life can change when you least expect it.

 

[kerilli]

You're skating on thin ice to question others' feeding regimes! Oats are a perfectly good feed for horses (and broodmares, even if only "maybe" pregnant, need as much high energy/protein as working horses) and are not necessarily automatically heating. I'd never trust a horse when feeding loose - we feed "out" horses on the fence, from the other side.

i just stated what i do and what i believe, i don't see that as 'skating on thin ice'.
since we now know that these mares (and the one in question is an unrugged t.b. without much coat, apparently) are not getting any additional hay or haylage (which i must say i slightly suspected - i always feed mine out in the field and, perhaps because they always have plentiful forage, i've NEVER had one do that...) do you feel differently? even if there's lots of grass in the field, afaik it has very little nutritional value at this time of year!
an oat & nut feed once a day is never going to be as heating as ad-lib forage - the act of digesting forage is very heating, isn't it?

 

[lula]

Firstly, sorry about your near miss. Horrible isn't it.

Regarding oats, as I understand it they are a perfectly good feed for non working horses as they are good for maintaining weight. Having said that some horses react badly to them, as say barley.

I would suspect that the issue here was that they are cold and used to the exremely bad practice of being fed in the field.

Is there enough grass that they don't need extra forage?

yes, i would say so. they're in about 4 acres and its well drained pasture on loam. Only the gateway's starting to churn up but thats mostly all the hooning around chasing the other mare this girl is doing at feed times
Wouldnt think there's much goodness in it at this time of year but its as good as you're going to get at the moment and not a sea of mud.

 

[Persephone]

Hmmn, well if they are hungry, cold, fighting and being fed in the field I should think that is the answer.

I wouldn't give your services in the future for your own safety.

I saw the moody side of my filly this evening because I had got the weather wrong and turned her out with no rug. She was in a horrible mood and snapped and threatened me all the way to the gate. Cold plus a slight change in routine was enough to upset her temper badly

 

[lula]

Hmmn, well if they are hungry, cold, fighting and being fed in the field I should think that is the answer.

I wouldn't give your services in the future for your own safety.

I saw the moody side of my filly this evening because I had got the weather wrong and turned her out with no rug. She was in a horrible mood and snapped and threatened me all the way to the gate. Cold plus a slight change in routine was enough to upset her temper badly

i think everyone who's said this mare is just cold thoughly fed up and hungry is dead on. That's my opinion too which is sad as i cant see anything changing for her as owner has no stable and i doubt will be convinced to buy rugs.
This summer when she came back from stud she'd follow you around the field like a puppy dog, a real people horse so this is such a change in behaviour.

Just goes to show being cold has more symptoms for horses than just staring coats and shivering.

meh.

 

[Persephone]

Poor mare, it's a great shame

 

[TigerTail]

Gosh there is a lot of generalising in this thread!

Why is it assumed because she is out and rugless that she is cold and hungry?! What idiocy. If she was either of those and in foal her ribs would be staring, her coat dull, she would be stood hunched up not moving around etc etc

Oats are not heating per se - most of that depends where you source them from and what type they are. Live oats are the best, preferably from an organic source.

The mare was clearly warning the other horse off for approaching the food when she, the boss mare, hadnt got her dinner yet. Ideally you would feed her first then follow on in pecking order to avoid such issues.

As for the 'bad practise' of feeding in the field - what complete and utter tripe! I suppose instead we should all feed in tiny stables so the horses can weave, kick the door, crib, try to bite over the door etc etc

 

[TigerTail]

Forgot what I was originally going to post I was so busy getting annoyed at the other replies!

Had a similarish situation on thurs - my friends mare took off when I let her go after the farrier had trimmed her, my mare and her other one were in the coral and her 2nd mare galloped up behind mine, bit her on the bum and barged her over the fence - she somersaulted have never been so frightened.

I have told the friend about the situation, and mentioned i think the excess sillyness is down to the fact theirs have had carrots and get fed a mollassed chaff which has gone up the last week. I wasnt amused at all but I accept that they are animals and these things happen.

 

[Wagtail]

i just stated what i do and what i believe, i don't see that as 'skating on thin ice'.
since we now know that these mares (and the one in question is an unrugged t.b. without much coat, apparently) are not getting any additional hay or haylage (which i must say i slightly suspected - i always feed mine out in the field and, perhaps because they always have plentiful forage, i've NEVER had one do that...) do you feel differently? even if there's lots of grass in the field, afaik it has very little nutritional value at this time of year!
an oat & nut feed once a day is never going to be as heating as ad-lib forage - the act of digesting forage is very heating, isn't it?

Totally agree. I feed all eight in the field in the summer and don't have any problems at all. Those experienced horse people amongst us know the signs of a cold and hungry horse. I'm amazed when people look for more complicated explanations.

 

[Spring Feather]

i think everyone who's said this mare is just cold thoughly fed up and hungry is dead on.

I have to say, without further information it's not what I would automatically think.

This summer when she came back from stud she'd follow you around the field like a puppy dog, a real people horse so this is such a change in behaviour.

Does she get fed hardfeed during the summer too?

I have quite a few broodmares and they all live in a very big field with plenty of adlib hay/grass. They live out 24/7 and in winter only they are fed oats along with their regular feed. Oats keep horses warm and I've found they work very well to keep weight on broodmares. Absolutely loads of breeders that I know also feed oats during the winter for their broodmares who live out. Going back to my broodmares, they are a lovely lovely bunch of mares however the hierarchy that goes on with pregnant mares is one to be aware of. To be frank, there is no way in hell I would go into my broodmare herd with buckets of feed. I feed along the fenceline with me outside the field and them in it. I pass the rubber skips under the fence and then move on to the next mare. Mine all know their feeding spots and they are quite well behaved at feed time BUT there are loads of the buggers and I'm not going to put myself in harms way should one day they decide that they want to bicker about whose feed is whose. At a point every summer (once the mares/foals are weaned and the mares have been rebred) I stop feeding hardfeed to my broodmares completely and they do not get any more until winter when they're about 3 or 4 months before when they're due to foal again.

 

[Spring Feather]

Totally agree. I feed all eight in the field in the summer and don't have any problems at all. Those experienced horse people amongst us know the signs of a cold and hungry horse. I'm amazed when people look for more complicated explanations.

Oh goodness I laughed out very loud when I read this latest piece from you Wagtail. I'm sorry but 8 horses. Try owning a stud farm with 10 times as many horses and then tell me of your experience. Real experienced horse people know that there are many reasons why horses do what they do. Cold and hunger and just two of those reasons.