just not settled.....

buddylove

buddylove

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This might be a long one, so please make yourselves comfortable......
we moved in September and since the move my horse has got progressively worse. He seems to be on edge all the time, he won't hack alone and although he has always had a bolshy streak, he is getting more unpleasant on the ground and has bitten me twice in the last 2 days.
Under saddle he is nappy and prefers company, but does not buck, rear or bolt.
The way he is managed has not been changed. He was kept at home before, out 24/7 and he has the same companion.
He is not fed any hard feed, and has adlib hay which was made at our previous property.
The water troughs are all mineralised (we are on a dairy farm), so any deficiency in forage is balanced by the water source.
He has had teeth and saddle checked (new saddle on order, but old one fitted). He has not been lame or showing any signs of illness.
He shows no discomfort when being saddled or girthed up. He is reluctant to be bridled, which I think is remembered discomfort from a poorly fitting bridle which was too tight across the browband and has since been chucked out.
To be honest he has been ridden very little since we moved, and has only been hacked lightly over the winter. However, we are planning on upping the work with a view to doing some low level RC over the summer.
So I'm not sure where to go from here, any suggestions welcome.
Thank you ☺
 
No one?
Couple of things to add, farrier has been today and horse objected to having off fore lifted. When pulled back he fidgeted and shuffled about, when pulled forward onto the stand he nearly sat down!
I am wondering whether there could be an issue further up?
We are also quite hilly here and I have noticed he has a bit of an odd action going downhill - it feels like he really extends his forelegs?
I was thinking of perhaps getting a full body scan done with thermal imaging to see if they can pinpoint any issues?
 
Unhappy horse- unusual behaviour which may indicate pain with farrier. Tack seems to all be fine. Reluctance to be tacked. Not settled. Odd action noticed by you.....The only way to get to the bottom of it truly, is to seek advice from a vet, noting all that you have on this thread to them. First step that they are likely to suggest is a lameness work up- which should hopefully pinpoint where the lameness/odd action is coming from.

Out of curiosity did the farrier comment on it?

I cannot suggest thermal imaging as have never had any requirement for it with my horses and so have no experience of seeing it done, or for what purposes. As I understand it will only show hot spots though, and not give you a diagnosis of any sort as such?

Hope you get to the bottom of it and it sorted OP. x
 
If you are on a dairy farm are you grazing on cow pasture? Are the water troughs balanced for cows? I'm not sure this would be the same requirements for a horse?

Down hill action sounds like a reluctance to land heel maybe?

Same as foot placed on farrier stand.

Possible laminitis / heel pain brought about by week hoof due to diet?

I'd check the difference in grass and mineral balance from previous yard and start there followed by vet I guess.

Best luck
 
Thanks for your input thus far.
The farrier did comment but put it down to teenage tantrums. He has fab feet, healthy frog and sole and no issues with the hoof wall. He is not presenting as obviously lame.
The reasoning behind the thermal imaging idea was to try and identify any areas that require further investigation by the vet and avoid lengthy "barking up the wrong tree" scenarios.
Whilst we are based on a dairy farm he is not grazed on dairy grass, the mineralised water is a broad spectrum vitamin and mineral additive, including magnesium. They also have access to a tap water trough as well which is not mineralised.
We literally did not have hills where we used to live so I do not know if the odd gait downhill was present before or not?
He is shod in front only.
 
I would get a full workup from vet and only go down the thermal imaging route if that reveals nothing. Thermal imaging isn't cheap and I suspect a good vet could well have suspicions and could pinpoint them fairly quickly in a workup by looking for the most likely things first. Mine was booked in for a full workup but the vet suspected one thing so tested for it first and it was that - the workup over in 20 mins and cost less than £100.
 
My friend had several lameness tests that found nothing, similar to OP - nothing obvious, she had thermal imaging and it helped find the site, which was then treated and rested. Beware of getting a diagnosis from the thermal imager though, one round our way has done a few physio courses and now acts as though they know more than the vet/farrier. Personally I would take the images and then show/discuss with my vet.
 
Lameness work up for pain then with vet. Ime thermal imaging has too many factors to present as reliable. Horses usually get bad behaviour from too much if the wrong energy, boredom or pain or at least that's what I think. I suppose you could up work but if in low grade pain not advisable and you won't know without a work up!!

Keep us posted.
 
Horses don't change their behaviour randomly without a reason. The difficult bit is finding the reason :)
Could he have tweaked something charging around when he arrived at his new home? I know my lovely gentle natured 4 year old became very difficult aged 5 just after a move. Everybody told me all the usual stuff about "he's being a teenager", "he's testing you". It was only nearly nine months later that a comment from a trainer jogged the memory of another livery who said she'd seen him have a crashing fall and slide on his side for about 10 metres about a month after arriving at the new yard when galloping around with his new mates. Apparently if you don't treat SI ligament injuries within 72 hours of them happening, they're chronic. I backed right off working with him and his nice nature returned. After a year of very gentle exercise, I restarted him and years on he can now be ridden, although he needs regular physio and he is quite lopsided behind.

His symptoms? Being difficult to handle. Biting when asked to do anything that led to being tacked up. Bucking when asked to do anything much ridden at all, especially circles, and especially canter. Being nappy when asked to walk down hill. Being difficult when asked to lift hind legs to have hooves trimmed, especially lifts out to the side. He never appeared lame and even the vet was initially sceptical that anything was physically wrong.

If I'd listened to the comments, I would have tried to ride through his pain and either he or I would have ended up injured - he would certainly have ended up a very unhappy horse.

I'm not suggesting this is your horse's issue, just that if a horse has been previously nice natured and good to handle, they won't have a sudden personality change. The original nice personality is in there, but something's causing the horse to act different with you, and it's worth exploring rather than just assuming he has, for some reason, changed into a less nice horse (which is, after all, the least likely option :) ).
 
Thanks brightbay, i know he isn't right somewhere, he has always been bolshy but not at this level, my gut feeling is there is pain somewhere. I will be booking him in for a full work-up, and see where we go from there......
 
Another vote for a full work up here- not wanting to be alarmist, only to offer a thought- have you considered kissing spines? My mare was recently diagnosed and some of your symptoms sound familiar (admittedly could be any number of other things though!!)

Good luck and fingers crossed for a simple solution :-)
 
Kezzabell2 he is a welsh x tb, but bred up in Cumbria, we only moved to Shropshire 6 months ago.
One thing that is playing on my mind was his reaction to his off fore being pulled forward onto the stand by the farrier this morning. He literally nearly sat down in his attempt to avoid it. Now about 18 months ago he reared (in hand) and slipped over on a concrete yard landing on his off side. Is it possible that any damage possibly done at that time would take 18 months to manifest itself? Thinking possible changes in the shoulder due to that trauma?
Aah head is spinning!!
 
Ah ok. Not related then

With regards to the incident. It could have caused some damage. My boy has.been diagnosed with bone spurs, which were causing him so much pain. I miss read his signs. Not wanting to be tacked up. Planting when ridden. Not standing for me to mount but because he was young I thought he was trying it on. Until he eventually couldn't take anymore he reared up vertical with me until I gave in and got off.

Anyway. I've read that bone spurs usually develop due to injuries, when the bone heals it grows extra bits that can cause pain. Now he's not been injured but he does paw a lot and I expect where he slams he's feet down he's damaged his hoof, which could have caused the bone spur he has in his coffin joint

So would be worth getting the vet to do a lameness work up

Also I had no idea my boy was lame. But he was on his front right and back left
 
I am so down this morning, waiting for the vet to come back to me with an appt. Went up to the field this morning and whilst his field companion came straight over to me for lots of fuss, he just eyed me with suspicion and avoided me. It always was him that was first over for a fuss, now I think he just associates me with pain and discomfort 😢
 
Where abouts in Shropshire are you, OP?
I can heartily recommend Simon Woods at Fyrnwy Equine for performance related issues and lameness, very thorough indeed and very reassuring.
 
Vet visit today, I feel a bit sick!
If he finds no lameness I have a feeling it could possibly be ulcers, even though he is not a classic ulcer candidate, the move down here could well have upset him more than I thought?
I have started him on Dengie Healthy Tummy, and ordered some pro-equine ulcer soothe to be on the safe side!
Will update later......😓
 
Odd action downhill can be a sign of Ataxia - ie there is an injury somewhere that is affecting the horse's balance. Possibly a neurological injury? Affected horses often look as though the foot is 'searching' for the floor when going downhill and this will be more pronounced if you keep a tight hold on his head as you lead him downhill. Hope the vet can find something and you are certainly going the correct route by starting there. Good luck
 
Hope the vet visit goes ok. Deep breath, grab and cuppa and try to relax. Hopefully the vet will be able to give you some answers. Keep us updated.
 
sport horse said:
Odd action downhill can be a sign of Ataxia - ie there is an injury somewhere that is affecting the horse's balance. Possibly a neurological injury? Affected horses often look as though the foot is 'searching' for the floor when going downhill and this will be more pronounced if you keep a tight hold on his head as you lead him downhill. Hope the vet can find something and you are certainly going the correct route by starting there. Good luck
Click to expand...

He doesn't do the odd action unless he is ridden down a hill, there is a steep bank going up to his field and he comes down that normally. I have felt the odd action rather than seen it, IYKWIM? It feels like he is over extending and it is a very "rolling" motion to sit to. But he does not refuse to go downhill? Sorry if I'm not explaining myself very well 😞
 
Update....
Hmmm, nothing obvious, but showed some discomfort on palpation of the spine both around the withers and in the middle of the back and girth area. He trotted up sound as a pound. Vet then did flexion, trotted up sound after flexion of the near hind, but slightly stiff after flexion of the near hind, nothing dramatic just slight stiffness and tail held to one side.
We have decided to scope for ulcers as he has had stress with the move and some runny poo's. Vet also recommended some physio/osteo and we will take it from there. Feel a bit better, liked the Vet as well, certainly did not dismiss my concerns as being a neurotic owner!!!
 
I would bet part of the problem is the dairy farm grass which is totally unsuitable and dangerous for horses.
Most certainly should also have a normal water supply without any additives.
What is suitable for dairy cattle is not suitable for horses and in fact very dangerous.
 
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