Just read this...

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Madasmaz

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In H&H sister publication Horse.

Vet report on Joint supplements....

"Glucosamine levels found in the blood and joints of horse fed oral supplements are very low, which casts doubt on the benefits claimed by the supplement manufacturers. While experimental laboratory trials hove not shown any improvement in in joint cartilage quality or repair, clinical trails in the field have shown improvement in the symptoms of joint disease. Most effective is a combination of both glucosamine and chondroitin sulphate. These compunds along with avocado and soyabean derivatives, have been trailled, but no dramatic results obtained yet."

So, should these supplements only be used when joint disease has been diagnosed? Do they have no preventative/protective benefits at (in which case my pony craps out £100 over 3 months)...what do you all think....I'm a bit naffed off personally.
 
I think there will always be an argument over whether or not these suppliments work.

However, annecdotal evidence would seem to support that they do - so people will continue to use them.
 
The problem with any supplements is that they work for some people and not for others. I used a glucosamine product on my dog and it made a massive difference to her mobility. I don't care whether health professionals say there is no proof it works, all I know is, my dog could get out of her bed in the morning IF she had a daily cortaflex tablet.

I have tried different supplements over the years. My horse has crappy feet. Loads of people swear by Formula4Feet and farriers Formula, but it did nothing for my horse, yet a diet higher in protein makes her feet grow !

I personally would not feed any supplement for preventative measures, only to try and help an existing problem, otherwise you can't measure whether it is effective and they are all sooo expensive.
 
I've made the radical decision to stop with the super expensive joint supplement and put horse on Cod Liver Oil. Don't know if it makes a blind bit of difference, but then I wasn't aware of any difference from the expensive stuff. Costs peanuts and I still get the satisfaction of feeding a supplement..
 
I totally agree with your conmment on dogs, tracey01. My friend gixes Cortaflex to her extremely arthritic labrador - and with it he is comfortable, without it he is crippled again with a couple of days - so whether there are good veterinary reasons to use it or not, she can only go on the effect it has on him.
 
I sometimes wonder if these things work. That's why I have my boy on Equine Americas joint supplement 100% glucosamine at 1000mg level and with MSM in it, MSM being very good for mild bone spavin whcih is what he's just been diagnosed with. I was always led to believe that chrondroitin and glucosamine worked best when used in conjunction with each other, but my vet disagrees with that and said gluc on its own is sufficient. The problem with feeding a supplement is that you are loathe to stop it, so you continue with it - then the costs mount up. So you decide to stop using it. Then low and behold the horse goes lame in the case of a joint supplement, or gets a touch of spasmodic colic in the case of a probiotic. Thats it conclusive proof these things do work so off you shoot to the shop to stock up on as many supplements as you can afford to buy! The two things may not even be related and it might just be a coincidence but deep in your mind you are convinced your horse is lame because YOU stopped the supplement. Then you chastise yourself and vow never to do such a stupid thing again. Its like a vicious circle of SPEND SPEND AND SPEND!!
 
I tried my boY on a joint supplement C-----Flex. And he actually seemed stiffer. Took him off it and he was better. He was ok of Supaflex, but this year he is on loan and will winter out 24/7 so nothing will be needed as I am pretty sure that it was begin stabled that made him stiff as in summer he was fine.
 
here is another article

Equine Vet J Suppl. 2006 Aug;(36):622-5.Links
Double blind investigation of the effects of oral supplementation of combined glucosamine hydrochloride (GHCL) and chondroitin sulphate (CS) on stride characteristics of veteran horses.Forsyth RK, Brigden CV, Northrop AJ.
Animal and Equine Science Department, Myerscough College, St. Michaels Road, Bilsborrow, Preston, PR3 ORY Lancashire, UK.

REASONS FOR PERFORMING STUDY: Oral chondroprotective supplements are commercially popular for veteran (and other athletic or arthritic) horses prone to joint degeneration, yet lack conclusive scientific support. OBJECTIVES: To quantify the effects of an oral joint supplement (combination glucosamine hydrochloride (GHCL), chondroitin sulphate (CS) and N-acetyl-D-glucosamine) in vivo on stride parameters of veteran horses. METHODS: Twenty veteran horses were randomly assigned to a treatment (n = 15) or placebo group (n = 5). Pre-treatment gait characteristics were recorded at trot using digital video footage (50 Hz). The range of joint motion, stride length, and swing and stance duration were assessed using 2-dimensional motion analysis. Treatment (or placebo) was administered daily for 12 weeks at the manufacturer's recommended dosage. Gait was reassessed every 4 weeks using the pre-treatment protocol. Double blind procedure was implemented throughout. Relationships between variables were analysed using General Linear Model. RESULTS: Differences occurred in the treated horses by week 8. Range of joint motion increased significantly in the elbow (P<0.05), stifle and hind fetlock (P<0.01). Stride length increased significantly (P<0.05) with treatment. Swing duration was significantly increased at week 12 (P<0.05), whilst stance duration remained constant. CONCLUSION: The oral chondroprotective offered symptomatic relief to veteran horses, evidenced by improved stride characteristics. POTENTIAL RELEVANCE: Oral GHCL and CS supplementation may improve welfare by alleviating symptoms of degenerative joint disease.
 
Studies published in October performed on humans, using glucosamine and chondroitin sulphate in combination to address osteo-arthritis by way of slowing cartilage loss, showed that there was no significant difference between the test groups and placebo groups in terms of improvement.

Statistically, it is looking more and more likely that use of glucosamine and chondroitin sulphate does not do anymore than act as a placebo to pet and horse owners, however, there will always be cases when it would appear that using such supplements really does help. Whether these anecdotal benefits are solely due to the administration of the supplement, or are due to a happy coincidence of environmental or managements factors that just happen to change at the same time, is also open to discussion.

What I know is that I have a friend who was taking glucosamine for her sore knuckles (incipient arthritis?), and like WishfulThinker's experience above, actually felt that her hands hurt her more when she was taking it. She switched to cod liver oil and feels that this does help.

Glucosamine and associated supplements are expensive. Seeing as there is no clinical evidence to say that glucosamine definitely works to aid cartillage health (the study highlighted above is promising, but doesn't account for the mechanism by which these improvements to gait characteristics were facilitated by glucosamine or chondroitin suphate, and additionally the control group (placebo) is a bit small - would have been better with 10 animals in each group), I would save my money.

Cod liver oil has been shown to improve cartilage health at the cellular level - it 'turns off' the enzymes that degrade cartillage tissue. For me the choice is simple - cod liver oil is cheaper to feed and although the jury may still be out on glucosamine, studies point to cod liver oil having tangible benefits, so why pay more?
 
My border terrier with rubbish hips would disagree with the above. She was lame at 6 months, Shes had no surgery (they wanted to chop off both hips) just a couple of hydro courses and a daily small dog synoquin.

Shes 4 1/2 now and hasnt had a lame day.

I was v sceptical and didnt expect it to work but it jolly well did, the X rays showed her cartilege /muscless etc partly taking the role of where the bone should be and supporting her hips. So weve got the before and after black and white proof that something has done that.

I wouldnt feed it unless there was a diagnosed issue tho, (and in our case, a really serious one).

The other important thing is exercise (we got her a rescue Doberman to harrass her !) and not letting the weight pile on.
 
Just to play devil's advocate Haffielisel (!), so in addition to the glucosamine, she also has synoquin and lots more exercise to improve her musculature, helping to support her joints.....so perhaps the glucosamine isn't doing as much as you think?

Of course you may have taken her off the glucosamine to see what happened without it ( you don't mention this?), and if that was the case and she then went lame, then I would agree that it helped in this case!
 
The problem is that the conditions these supplements are supposed to help with, like arthritis, have a spontaneous recovery rate (as well as relapse) so it is difficult to know what caused the improvement. Add to this that it is very difficult to messure improvement in the first place, especially in non-human patients and it can be impossible to tell whether there was any difference anyway.
 
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