Just to clarify (re Poseidon rumour)...

[htobago]

I wasn't sure whether to post about this or not, but decided it would be best to clarify things.

I received this PM after posting about Tobago's first foal winning British National Champion at the national Arab show:

"Congratulations on Tobago`s colt going BNC......BUT can I just clarify something? Was he the only horse forward in this class?
I have had an e.mail and numerous calls to say he was.
If that is the case then it is a very hollow victory."

So there has clearly been a rumour going round. Just to set the record straight: Poseidon was the only foal in the 'weaned or orphan foal' class. He then went on into the championship, up against ALL the other first- and second-placed foals from ALL the foal classes at the national show, and he beat them ALL to win the national championship.

This was hardly a 'hollow victory'!!!

I hope this is all now clear and there will be no more unfounded rumours.

As I don't know where the rumours originated, I will post this in Picture Gallery and NL as well.

I'm not angry, but it is rather sad that people are so quick to believe unpleasant and totally unfounded rumours, don't you think?

Here is Poseidon, just so that anyone who missed this knows who we are talking about (and because he's cute)!

 

[the watcher]

It is a shame when people want to take the shine off any acheivements, but it was at least done by pm, I suppose. Nothing can take away from just how spectacular he is.

 

[Skhosu]

I can see why you would be annoyed, except that this person did not post in in public forum etc but asked you to clarify it, so wouldn't see it as trying to take it away from the foal personally..

 

[htobago]

I agree - I should have said that I was grateful to the person for asking this in a PM rather than on the forum. That was very decent of her, and I appreciate it.

But clearly a lot of people believed this rumour, so I wanted to set things straight publicly, in case anyone was still in doubt.

 

[henryhorn]

What a hurtful thing to hear.
I think you have done the right thing in posting the "real" story, which should nip nasty minded folk's rumours in the bud.
Sadly there always seems to be someone who wants to sour things when you are successful, my daughter managed a fantastic 19.5 dressage on our stallion at an event the other day, only to see posts on here asking if judges are being over generous this year!!! Why people can't just be pleased for you I don't know...
I think the foal has proved his calibre by beating all the others, and well done, ignore any snidey rmarks!

 

[christine48]

He is stunning, you must be so proud of his lovely crop of foals. He looks huge, how big is he expected to make?

 

[htobago]

Thank you HH - it may be a bit pathetic of me to want to stop this rumour, but I just didn't like the idea of people sniggering to each other about something that is completely untrue!

Also, it's an interesting case of 'Chinese Whispers' - shows how easily facts can get distorted and misinterpreted into pure fiction!

Sorry to hear about your daughter being upset by hurtful comments. I am amazed at how unpleasant people can be sometimes. I'm sure in her case it must have been green-eyed envy of that incredible dressage score!

 

[htobago]

Thank you memo! I think the photo makes Poseidon look a bit bigger than he is, but he is quite tall. I'll try to find out what height he's expected to make.

 

[Ciss]

Totally agree with HH.

After nearly 30 years involved in breeding -- as breeder, exhibitor and judge/evaluator in several countries -- the unfounded bitching that some people get up to still never cease to amaze me :-(. A worrying number of people are either unable to accept that a good win is a fari one or that there are animals around that are better than their own -- or sometimes both.

Perhaps becuase it is so transparent -- and the organisers know that perception is often so much more powerful than truth so it is essential to make sure that everything is clear and above board from the start -- such bad mouthing is thankfully much rarer in the Futurity, but it does still happen there and the amount of time it takes to correct the 'terminological inexactitudes' perpetrated by such Chinese whispers is an unneccessary drag on the already stretched time commitments of everyone involved.

Well done in grasping the bull by the horns, or the poster by their gossip and making such a clear statement of the actual position. No-one can gainsay him now, however they may wish to.

 

[Tia]

Oh gosh, I really wouldn't lose any sleep over this Kate, some people have nothing better going on than to start silly rumours. I expect your zest and excitement over how well Tobago and his youngstock have done is why some miserable old sods have tried to discredit you - leave them to their sorry little lives if you ask me

. You keep enjoying your grandlittlies and your big boy.

 

[FRESHMAN]

How anyone could make such a suggestion is beyond me. I admit I have never been a huge Arab fan. Mainly because I am into " working horses" But even I never miss the opportunity to look at all your piccies of Tobago or any of his offspring. You would have to be completely blind to miss the grace, elegance & beauty that he has & stamps on all his youngstock. You must be very proud of him. Now what do you think he could go to to produce showjumping stock? (LOL) I would die to have a horse in my yard that looks like him. Imagine waking up in a morning & seeing his head over the stable door.

 

[htobago]

Thank you so much everyone - you are all very kind, and have made me feel much better.

Tia - I suppose maybe I was a bit too over-excited, posting away happily about Poseidon - might have seemed boastful or something?

I'm basically a typical totally besotted one-horse owner, and I keep forgetting that lots of skippy-happy posting about one's horse can easily be misinterpreted if that horse is a stallion. So I've really been trying hard to damp things down and not get carried away, lest I appear to be either boasting or 'advertising'.

But I figured Poseidon's national championship was genuine news - hey, even H&H gave him a big write-up! - and I'm pretty sure I only posted one thread on here and one on Picture Gallery about his win, which for me is remarkably restrained LOL!

Oh - but then I posted those photos of that other foal - but that can't be wrong cos everyone posts foal pics, don't they? Help! I really don't want to annoy anyone - so please, you must tell me if I'm overstepping any lines, OK?

Thanks again for being so nice.

 

[htobago]

[ QUOTE ]
How anyone could make such a suggestion is beyond me. I admit I have never been a huge Arab fan. Mainly because I am into " working horses" But even I never miss the opportunity to look at all your piccies of Tobago or any of his offspring. You would have to be completely blind to miss the grace, elegance & beauty that he has & stamps on all his youngstock. You must be very proud of him. Now what do you think he could go to to produce showjumping stock? (LOL) I would die to have a horse in my yard that looks like him. Imagine waking up in a morning & seeing his head over the stable door.

[/ QUOTE ]

Freshman what an incredibly kind thing to say - especially generous coming from someone who isn't an Arab-fan!

But besotted though I am with my boy, even I can think of many far more obvious show-jumping sires than a baby show-Arab who isn't even backed yet LOL! So I'll forgive you if you decide that on reflection, however nice it might be to have a pretty Tobago-face looking over your stable door, Jaguar Mail would probably be a slightly better choice to sire your next show-jumper!

 

[jaffs]

Grrrrrr! Don't they know that we are the Official Protection squad for Tobago and all his 'lings'

 

[KenRehill]

Wow, for a subject/rumour that nobody knew about in the first place, there's certainly a lot know it now. Good work.

 

[Anastasia]

You know something....why the heck can people just not be happy with the success of others!! This world is full of green eyed monsters who would rather spend their time "trying" to make life miserable for others.

Well Done Kate in sharing this, its awful that somebody felt the need to PM you with such a malicious comment!

You deserve your successes......

 

[Foxfolly]

[ QUOTE ]
How anyone could make such a suggestion is beyond me. I admit I have never been a huge Arab fan. Mainly because I am into " working horses" But even I never miss the opportunity to look at all your piccies of Tobago or any of his offspring. You would have to be completely blind to miss the grace, elegance & beauty that he has & stamps on all his youngstock. You must be very proud of him. Now what do you think he could go to to produce showjumping stock? (LOL) I would die to have a horse in my yard that looks like him. Imagine waking up in a morning & seeing his head over the stable door.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well said, that is exaclty my view of him too, just couldn't have put it that well!!

I don't blame you for wanting to put it straight, its not nice when you know somthing is being banded around and its wrong!!

Also I am sure as the judge doesn't have to place an entry even if it is the only one in the class. Not sure how many judges would have the guts to do that... but if they don't think the horse is good enough then they can choose to place it lower than 1st or not at all!!

He is absolutely stunning, and in my opinion a seriously quality foal that oozes presence and class. A worthy champion!!

 

[htobago]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow, for a subject/rumour that nobody knew about in the first place, there's certainly a lot know it now. Good work.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um, actually rather a lot of people knew about the subject, as Poseidon's national championship win was written up in H&H, with photo etc., and several people posted threads on here about this.

I don't know how many people had heard the malicious and unfounded rumour, but I thought it best to nip it in the bud before it spread any further.

Almost everyone here seems to think this was the right thing to do.

 

[htobago]

[ QUOTE ]
Totally agree with HH.

After nearly 30 years involved in breeding -- as breeder, exhibitor and judge/evaluator in several countries -- the unfounded bitching that some people get up to still never cease to amaze me :-(. A worrying number of people are either unable to accept that a good win is a fari one or that there are animals around that are better than their own -- or sometimes both.

Perhaps becuase it is so transparent -- and the organisers know that perception is often so much more powerful than truth so it is essential to make sure that everything is clear and above board from the start -- such bad mouthing is thankfully much rarer in the Futurity, but it does still happen there and the amount of time it takes to correct the 'terminological inexactitudes' perpetrated by such Chinese whispers is an unneccessary drag on the already stretched time commitments of everyone involved.

Well done in grasping the bull by the horns, or the poster by their gossip and making such a clear statement of the actual position. No-one can gainsay him now, however they may wish to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you! That is interesting Ciss: In your experience, are people in other countries as bad as the Brits in this respect?

It seems to me that the showing world is the worst for rumours and malicious gossip, but perhaps other equestrian disciplines are just as bad?

 

[KenRehill]

In showjumping, it tends to be a question of whether you went clear or not, rather than someone's opinion.

 

[jaffs]

"Wow, for a subject/rumour that nobody knew about in the first place, there's certainly a lot know it now. Good work"




You really need to trim your claws Ken

 

[Ciss]

[ QUOTE ]
Thank you! That is interesting Ciss: In your experience, are people in other countries as bad as the Brits in this respect?

It seems to me that the showing world is the worst for rumours and malicious gossip, but perhaps other equestrian disciplines are just as bad?

[/ QUOTE ]

In mainland Europe becuase showing as we know it barely exists and the whole system revolves around grading -- and especially performance test resulsts for stallions -- the moans tend to be of the 'hard done by' kind rather than bitching about someone else's success. IOW, people have to find reasons why their stallion scored so low ('the berieter training him was a useless rider/didn't like the horse so didn't spend enough time on him/concentrated more on another stallion owned by a big stud becuas ehe wants to go and work for them in the future' or 'he gt a touch of colic/knocked himslef slightly etc the day before') rather than dissing other people and whilst listening to the excuses that owners think up is great fun, at least more successful stallions are not suffering as result.

In North America and South Africa (where showing is much more the norm) the phrase 'they say' is all too often a precursor to a nasty bit of inaccurate gossip. I alwasy ask 'Who are *they* exactly and how do they know what they know?' and funnily enough that question usally stops the flow of misinformation in its tracks when people start to consider where such rumours etc actually started.

Perhaps we could all try that approach a bit more when the 'they say'ers start up!

 

[htobago]

[ QUOTE ]
In showjumping, it tends to be a question of whether you went clear or not, rather than someone's opinion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very good point. But dressage and therefore also eventing are to a significant extent a question of someone's opinion.

And gradings even more so.

So it's interesting what Ciss says that there is not so much 'dissing' of winners in these circles, don't you think?

I have no idea why this is - I'm just professionally (and personally) curious. Might do a book on the horse world some day...

 

[htobago]

[ QUOTE ]
You know something....why the heck can people just not be happy with the success of others!! This world is full of green eyed monsters who would rather spend their time "trying" to make life miserable for others.

Well Done Kate in sharing this, its awful that somebody felt the need to PM you with such a malicious comment!

You deserve your successes......

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you Anastasia - and thanks to Jaffs and Foxfolly as well! Jaffs I love the idea of an Official Protection Sqaud LOL! Rather sad that anyone should be in need of 'protection' on here, though - it's usually such a friendly forum.

Anyway, I suppose the best protection against malicious, unfounded rumours is to set out the real facts, clearly and publicly - thus taking all the wind out of the rumour-mongers' sails and leaving them looking rather foolish.

I'm still curious about their motives, though - and about why this sort of malicious gossip is so prevalent in some circles and not in others? Ken has made a good point about it being more common where results are about judges' opinions....but gradings, especially of youngstock, where no actual 'performance' is involved, would seem to be an exception to this rule?

 

[kildalton]

I've never thought any of your posts have come across as bragging or advertising, I 'm not particularly a fan of arabs, but appreciate a beautiful charismatic animal of whatever breed.
Agree with the bitchiness, would love to read a book on the horsey world !

 

[htobago]

Thank you kidalton - that is reassuring. It'a a bit difficult when your only much-loved horse is a stallion - almost anything nice you say about him, or any achievement you are happy about, could seem like 'promotion'. I am grateful that the nice people on here understand that this is not my intention!

The book about the horse world is just a very vague thought at the moment - zoeshiloh suggested it. I wrote a book about racing a few years ago - called The Racing Tribe, about the people and social dynamics, not the horses - which was great fun, so it might be amusing to do another one...

 

[dozzie]

Gonna stick my neck out here because I do see it as advertising. I'm not saying it is intentional but I do think it is advertising/promoting.

Dont get me wrong, I love seeing the foals but I also believe that seeing them would encourage people to take their mares to him as apposed to other arabs.



Other breeders also advertise by the mere fact they post their foals on here. If I wanted a coloured foal I would possibly contact Volatis. If I was looking for a competition foal, Anastasia or Ken. Ashbank for a trakehner?

Ken promotes his Zangerscheide stallions. So much so that I had to watch JM at the Olympics. If I wanted a foreign warmblood I would contact Ken! Because I have heard his stallions are good.

Do you see what I am getting at? For someone with a lot of experience they may not be affected but for someone like me, just starting out, I know I could be influenced.

The seed is planted in the sub-conscious mind so to speak by pictures and comments on the forum.

I am not actually critciising anyone as I would like to think you are just incredibly proud of your horses and success. And I dont think in most cases it is deliberate. Plus, why not?

Certainly in my case the only arab stallion in the country that I know of is Tobago!

So if someone asked me if I knew of an arab stallion at stud, what would I say? Tobago!

I still like seeing all the foalies so please dont stop posting them! And continue to be proud of Tobagos success. I just think you may have to accept that to an extent you are advertising/promoting him even if not deliberately.

From my point of view, I think there is a lot of unintentional (and some intentional) advertising on this board (and the forum in general). So not getting at anyone. I just felt it had to be said!

As for the pm, it sounds like sour grapes to me, and I am pleased you could clarify and stop any rumours.

 

[KenRehill]

You're not really sticking your neck out, it is out and out promotion and it is intentional, but I'm not going to criticise anyone for that (if you look back, there is a specific post about Tobago every forty threads). I just wonder what would happen if I started posting photos of every foal that was produced by any of the stallions that I look after...................................

 

[dozzie]

LOL! I think you promote your stallions too! Just in a different way!

Of course I may be wrong and they may not be your stallions that you promote so apologies if this is the case.

 

[KenRehill]

You'll see no denial from me.