Kauto and Denman stay in training.

It's a tough one tbh.

Before the GC, I would have been all for retiring the pair of them, but having seen them race, I'm now not sure they are ready to retire...

They came 2nd and 3rd against much younger opposition. Take Long Run out of the equation, and they would have got 1st and 2nd.

We, as humans, hate to see brilliant horses fading, but Denman and Kauto know no different, and clearly enjoyed themselves on Friday, beating all but one of a much younger field.

PN knows the horses inside out, and knows what he's doing, and if he gives them a light, careful campaign, there is no reason why they can't enjoy another year.

Personally, I'd be happy to take denman off his hands though, if he changes his mind... ;) :D

*ETA*
Thoughts and Vibes to Tricky Trickster, who sustained a fracture to the top of his neck yesterday. The next few days are critical according to PN, so fingers very firmly crossed for him...
 
You're absolutely right, Dubs. For all the reasons you state it is a difficult one. I thought the chances of Denman remaining in training were quite high, but I think Clive Smith has already stated (though whether he's persuadable otherwise, I suspect he might be) that Kauto has run in his last Gold Cup.

Looking at them yesterday at the parade at Ditcheat they all looked magnificent, and I couldn't see a scratch on any of them.

Fingers crossed for TT. It was a horrible fall and he was down for a very long time.
 
Does anyone know if the parade is available online anywhere? I'm abroad so I couldn't watch it on TV.

I was kind of hoping Kauto and Denman would be allowed to bow out on the back of that amazing race, but I can understand why their owners would want to keep them in training. They are both magnificent horses, although I think Denman is perhaps aging better than Kauto.
 
Daffodil said:
You're absolutely right, Dubs. For all the reasons you state it is a difficult one. I thought the chances of Denman remaining in training were quite high, but I think Clive Smith has already stated (though whether he's persuadable otherwise, I suspect he might be) that Kauto has run in his last Gold Cup.

Looking at them yesterday at the parade at Ditcheat they all looked magnificent, and I couldn't see a scratch on any of them.

Fingers crossed for TT. It was a horrible fall and he was down for a very long time.
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Yep, I expected Denman to stay in training, but not Kauto if I'm honest.

The day after the GC, Denman was reported as being in fine fettle, whereas there seemed to be hints that the race had taken it out of Kauto, and he definitely wasn't going to race any more this season.

But then Denman is the tank, compared to Kauto being more like a Ferrari imho: flashy, fast, excellent performance, but needs more care, so I must admit I am less enthusiastic about Kauto staying in training.
I adore Denman, but I take nothing away from Kauto, and I would hate to see him hurt unnecessarily.
That said, they can just as easily damage themselves fatally in the paddock at home....
 
HashRouge said:
Does anyone know if the parade is available online anywhere? I'm abroad so I couldn't watch it on TV.

I was kind of hoping Kauto and Denman would be allowed to bow out on the back of that amazing race, but I can understand why their owners would want to keep them in training. They are both magnificent horses, although I think Denman is perhaps aging better than Kauto.
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Just my opinion, but I think the Irish bred horses do age better than the French bred in general. :)
 
They both produced superb runs in the GC and they would both deserve to bow out after that, but I think Denman looked like he could keep going for another season...

IMO Kauto looked like he gave up after he jumped the last and was reluctant to run on up the hill, so I'm not so sure he wants to keep racing. Maybe his fall last year took more out of him mentally/emotionally than physically?
 
I certainly don't think Denman looked like he needed to retire. Not sure about Kauto to be honest I agree with the ferrari analagy there but we shall see. I wonder what they will do with them when they do retire - who own Denman? God, would lurve to have a jump on him. Bet he'd have potential to be a decent competition horse afterwards - bit of eventing etc...! Lol. Hmm, do you think we should start noting our interest to take him on now.....?! ha ha - racehorse to riding horse classes anyone?! hehe
 
Im another who before the Gold Cup thought they should retire after but after their magnificent efforts I dont think they should. Kauto I do believe will take less racing than Denman because he raced very young in France and its interesting that Long Run also raced as a 3year old in France and will have to be lighly campaigned if he is to have such a long career as Kauto.

Paul Nicholls will be aware that they now have a prescence in the publics hearts and will have their welfare as his no.1. priorty. I trust him to do the right thing in the horses interests.

I also wish Tricky Trickster to make a full recovery and it was a nasty fall so its touch & go by the sound of it but full marks to connections for trying their best. Not the cold hearted greed driven owners that the antis would have us believe is behind horse racing.
 
I love Kauto. I was really hoping that after this GC, and he did so well, that he would be allowed a retirement which he has earnt a million times over.
IMO he owes nothing to anyone, has nothing to prove, and I am pretty sad that he is going to have to continue.
 
Both horses were bred to race. Nobody wants to see them hurt, least of all their connections, but there is still no reason that they shouldn't carry on. Yes, it is harder for them than it was against younger horses but they both showed that they still have the desire to run. Denman has a lovely rapport with Sam and, with his great friend to help him, he excelled on ground that didn't play to his strengths. Kauto travelled much better in the race than last year and was asked to go and win his race a long way from home. For me it was this, rather than lack of desire, that made him look laboured up the hill and why What a Friend could get so close to him. They may not be quite as good as they were but they deserve to be allowed to carry on doing what they appear to enjoy. After all, why should our sentiment preclude them from doing what they are still very good at?
 
they said on channel 4 after the race that they would stay in training but just do a couple of races.

I agree with the others - they are still making money and fit and sound so why would they retire them?
 
Dubs said:
It's a tough one tbh.

Before the GC, I would have been all for retiring the pair of them, but having seen them race, I'm now not sure they are ready to retire...

They came 2nd and 3rd against much younger opposition. Take Long Run out of the equation, and they would have got 1st and 2nd.

We, as humans, hate to see brilliant horses fading, but Denman and Kauto know no different, and clearly enjoyed themselves on Friday, beating all but one of a much younger field.

PN knows the horses inside out, and knows what he's doing, and if he gives them a light, careful campaign, there is no reason why they can't enjoy another year.

Personally, I'd be happy to take denman off his hands though, if he changes his mind... ;) :D

*ETA*
Thoughts and Vibes to Tricky Trickster, who sustained a fracture to the top of his neck yesterday. The next few days are critical according to PN, so fingers very firmly crossed for him...
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Totally agree...... though I think you'll find I'm first in the queue for Denman..... ;-)
 
If (in my wildest dreams) either were mine I'd leave them training & respect the ability of their trainer to know when they've had enough & until that time take the very best care of them & pick only plum races that they will enjoy (as in conditions as far as possible in their favour & not giving too much weight away). End of the day, then went in a very tough race & beat everything bar the winner.

woudl love to have the little gelding ridden by AP M who came 3rd in the Midlands national. Such a gutsy little guy, carrying topweight through that sodden ground for 4 1/2 miles, would make an amazing endurance horse.
 
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Lol, I think we'll have to be a syndicate of Denman owners and share babysitting duties... ;) :D

Re Tricky Trickster:

Quote from PN on Twitter today: "Tricky Trickster stable this am and going right way at the moment."

Keeping my fingers crossed for him. :)
 
Well I'm keeping everything crossed for Tricky Trickster after his dreadful fall in the Midlands National. Poor, poor boy.

I wasn't impressed with Ruby Walsh; rather than stay with the stricken horse he decided to walk away and watch the race. Not the first time I've seen him turn his back on his mount, unlike the wonderful Tony McCoy who seems to have more of a heart than most and stays with the horse.

Thumbs down for Ruby from me
 
Whichypoohs said:
Well I'm keeping everything crossed for Tricky Trickster after his dreadful fall in the Midlands National. Poor, poor boy.

I wasn't impressed with Ruby Walsh; rather than stay with the stricken horse he decided to walk away and watch the race. Not the first time I've seen him turn his back on his mount, unlike the wonderful Tony McCoy who seems to have more of a heart than most and stays with the horse.

Thumbs down for Ruby from me
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I noticed that too :(
 
That's really surprised me. Shame on Ruby.

AP McCoy has a rather aggressive riding style, which doesn't always sit well with me, but his emotional commitment to the horses he rides, is without question imho.
 
AP has said himself he doesn't like horses, so the above surprises me.

What constitutes an Irish bred, as a posed to a French or any other Country bred?
 
Last year I thought they should both be retired - how wrong was I and how right were the owners/trainer.

Agree maybe Kauto is past his best, maybe he should retire now, just because he used to be a real talented winner, he doesn't seem to cope so well when he needs to battle on.

Denman on the other hand - I don't think is past his best at all! He's always been a battler who might not have the speed of the french horses, but he's kept going!! He's like a Duocell bunny!! :)

They are only 11 at the end of the day, in normal horse terms it's not that old.
 
To put it in to some sort of perspective Kauto has run 37 times, Denman 23.

Desert Orchid on the other hand raced 70 times.

Ibelieve Red Rum won the Grand National when he was 12yrs old.

As long as their races are cherry picked no reason why they shouldnt race again.

Irish bred I believe is that Irish bred and registered in Ireland.
 
SmilingMadly said:
AP has said himself he doesn't like horses, so the above surprises me.
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No, he hasn't. AP has always said how much he loves horses, how he does it for the love of horses. It was Ruby who said he didn't like horses, although I'm sure he didn't say it quite like that. Personally, I think it shines through that AP loves the horses, but Ruby not so much.

I think Denman and Kauto should stay in training. If the horses look well and want to race, they should race. Retiring them for retirings sake seems daft if they are still fit and well, and it wouldn't have happened like that in the old days. I'm sure if either of them don't show their usual spark at home, they'll think otherwise. I cried watching them race the horse day - to come 2nd and 3rd in a Gold Cup shows that you may be getting on, but by God you still have class.
 
LOL! If you say so, I know what I know :)

And yes, so an Irish bred is a horse that was simply born there. Easily be the case that the mare travelled over there to foal, about a month before her due date, be covered and return to her permanent country of residence when safely in-foal again. Which if in-foal on one cover, means the foal could be about 70 days old when leaving Ireland. The point I am making, is that just because the suffix is one country, doesn't mean the horses was raised there.
 
Kauto loves Ireland I wonder if he will take it to Puncherstown festival in May.

Deman would make a good national horse they should enter him in the trials next season
 
SmilingMadly said:
LOL! If you say so, I know what I know :)
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Are you laughing at me? Prove it - it was Ruby Walsh who cause a hoo-ha when he said he didn't like horses. I don't recall AP McCoy ever saying "I don't like horse", but if you can prove it to me, fair enough. I could find the stuff about Ruby saying he didn't like them, and I could find stuff that says AP loves horses, but I can't be bothered. I will, however, point out a nice quote by the wonderful writer Brough Scott:

"McCoy’s award as BBC Sports Personality of The Year should not just be a cue for racing to loosen up but for the whole horse world too. Remember the most consistent reason that he gives for living the life he does? Because he loves it. So should we."

McCoy may have a different riding style from Walsh, who has a different riding style from others, just like all of us. But McCoy's love for and dedication to the horses is second to none.
 
Well I just had a google and the only result I could find suggesting that either McCoy or Walsh doesn't like horses was this thread....so you both need to prove it :p
 
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