KBIS

AdorableAlice

AdorableAlice

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Brace yourself for those renewing KBIS policies.

Just had mine in and after I had scrapped myself off the ceiling with the £465 increase in premium they quoted, I rang them. Answer to question one, why such an increase ? - "we have improved our policy terms and have a new underwriter" Question two, refer to exclusions, the only bits left that are insured are mane, tail and heart. Call taker couldn't answer that one. I am going to find a simple third party liability policy to cover all 3 of my horses for hacking out. Any recommendations gratefully received.


Excluding all losses arising directly or indirectly from lower airways disease.
- Excluding all losses arising directly or indirectly from the wound to the left eyelid that occurred
Janauary 2021
- Excluding all losses arising directly or indirectly from both hocks including associated soft tissue
structures other than accidental, external injuries involving an open wound only
- Excluding all losses arising directly or indirectly from the back including the sacroiliac other than
accidental, external injuries involving an open wound only
- Excluding all losses arising directly or indirectly from the neck other than accidental, external injuries
involving an open wound only (this includes joints and associated soft tissue structures of the cervical
spine)
- Excluding all losses arising directly or indirectly from both front feet including associated soft tissue
structures other than accidental, external injuries involving an open wound only
- Excluding all losses arising directly or indirectly from hormonal conditions
- Excluding all losses arising directly or indirectly from Insulin Dysregulation
 
The Fuzzy Furry said:
Harry Hall and BHS gold both have 3rd party cover, but both are insurance of last resort.
Which means if you have say, house insurance with liability cover, then they would want to see that policy to see if cover there that would cover. (It stinks, just why!?)
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Thanks.

KBIS suggested I take out their Aggregate policy with all 3 on it. I've not read through the blurb yet, but did notice they want clinical notes from all 3 horses since ownership commenced, they will then exclude each and every clinical incident from the policy per horse. With ages of 15 x 2 and the other at 19, the younger horses being a homebred and 9 months when he arrived, plus the older horse being 5 on purchase, all of them with same long suffering vet throughout, we can safely say there is a good old list of clinical problems.

I've had my fair share of claims over 50 years of horse owning and in the main, been fairly treated, but it is not tenable now.
 
I pay about £8pcm to BHS for 3rd party insurance which covers me for hacking out. Never had to claim so cant vouch for them, but at least if anything does happen I can pass on their details to the injured party.
 
I've got a Harry Hall one which covers external wounds for up to 4 horses.

I'm due a KBIS renewal for a rising 8yo never had a claim and they've insured him for 4 years - I'll brace myself for the premium then.

Last time they did a big hike they told me it was because claim volumes were going up. I did say to the handler if you insist on claims being made within a year then no one will turn away and hope rest helps. I've also had vet practices telling me I've got £5k to spend and getting stuck in - so if they want to keep the claim £ down the process needs to change.
 
AdorableAlice said:
Thanks.

KBIS suggested I take out their Aggregate policy with all 3 on it. I've not read through the blurb yet, but did notice they want clinical notes from all 3 horses since ownership commenced, they will then exclude each and every clinical incident from the policy per horse. With ages of 15 x 2 and the other at 19, the younger horses being a homebred and 9 months when he arrived, plus the older horse being 5 on purchase, all of them with same long suffering vet throughout, we can safely say there is a good old list of clinical problems.

I've had my fair share of claims over 50 years of horse owning and in the main, been fairly treated, but it is not tenable now.
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The 3rd party insurance, cover of last resort, may possibly have changed yo stand alone. Worth contacting BHS to confirm fully x
 
We now self insure by saving a sum each month towards vet fees, and have public liability insurance with World Horse Welfare. I got fed up of insurance companies taking the absolute pi$$ with exclusions and premium increases, despite not claiming on the policy.
 
New Forests Rock said:
BHS gold covers me for said £10M third party public liability for ANY horse or pony I might be riding, driving or handling.
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I had an issue with this as yes, they would do as you say, but they would not cover when other people were riding Rigs if they did something daft (as we all can do). That was some years ago and may have changed.

I actually went with the Insurance Emporium, who are the latest reincarnation of E&L. They cover both horses. Rigs is on a cheap as chips 3rd party only, which covers any rider. H is on a proper insurance including vets fees but, as I pay a % too, the premium was about half what the more normal insurances were.

I did have Harry Hall, but again, that was a little hazy about when other people were riding. It saved me money when I cancelled as HH kept sending me offers in their One Club and I was a devil for buying discounted stuff!!!
 
I self-insure now and just have 3rd party liability after they wanted £180/month to insure mine to compete unaffiliated. I feel like I've had enough vets bills over the years to know what I can afford - the worst I've ever been stung with was for a week long stay at Leahurst in Intensive Care which came to just under £10k, horse was insured at the time but worst case now it would be a credit-card job. The usual stuff I encounter like medicating joints etc. always comes in at under £1500 a pop so I just save up and pay for it.

I think insurance can be useful if you have to go down the route of very expensive diagnostics, but I've never actually had much joy with that tbh other than to find something I've been told isn't treatable. I've always found if the problem isn't pretty obvious/fixable I've just ended up opening a can of worms and been no better off in the end. So I now take a pretty conservative view that we treat the most obvious cause that can be easily diagnosed with x-rays/scans and go from there.
 
Muddywellies said:
I was with KBIS and they slapped an exclusion for every cough and sneeze. I left them as it became silly.
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I questioned the exclusion for insulin resistance. Was told it was because the TCEH tested the mare before giving a steroid. Isn't that a vet doing their job correctly ? Horse has no insulin problems and had the steroid.
 
Another vote for Insurance Emporium, their premium is reasonable and they have paid out promptly without issue in the past. The Vet hospital was happy to deal with them, so guessing they're good payers generally.
 
New Forests Rock said:
I self insure as current premiums, let alone future ones, are impossible. Just have BHS Gold membership which gives me £10M public liability and that will do.
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Yes, this is what I have done for some time. I’ve saved a lot of money even though I have forked out for a lot of things, including a stay at Liphook Equine Hospital for an ulcer problem
 
Alibear said:
I use WHW as they cover the whole herd whereas HH I think only covers 2. It does public liability and vet cover for an incident where there's an external wound.

ChampionPlus with Veterinary

www.worldhorsewelfare.org www.worldhorsewelfare.org
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I also use this and sadly had a claim on the veterinary cover for a catastrophic injury that had a wound and they paid everything apart from the euthanasia and were quick and easy to deal with. Their vet cover, covers more things than HH when I compared it a couple of years ago and they also don't limit the number of horses it covers.
 
Red-1 said:
I had an issue with this as yes, they would do as you say, but they would not cover when other people were riding Rigs if they did something daft (as we all can do). That was some years ago and may have changed.

I actually went with the Insurance Emporium, who are the latest reincarnation of E&L. They cover both horses. Rigs is on a cheap as chips 3rd party only, which covers any rider. H is on a proper insurance including vets fees but, as I pay a % too, the premium was about half what the more normal insurances were.

I did have Harry Hall, but again, that was a little hazy about when other people were riding. It saved me money when I cancelled as HH kept sending me offers in their One Club and I was a devil for buying discounted stuff!!!
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Well, the BHS cover is for their members’ benefit, so the third party, public liability, insurer of last resort, £10 millions, legal advice, etc - is accessed when your friend also becomes a member. And would then cover her for other horses she rides or handles with their owners’ permissions.
If you only allow limited numbers of other people to ride Riggs, might it be even cheaper to pay their BHS subscriptions? (also support the institution’s other work?). Just an idea.
 
Exasperated said:
Well, the BHS cover is for their members’ benefit, so the third party, public liability, insurer of last resort, £10 millions, legal advice, etc - is accessed when your friend also becomes a member. And would then cover her for other horses she rides or handles with their owners’ permissions.
If you only allow limited numbers of other people to ride Riggs, might it be even cheaper to pay their BHS subscriptions? (also support the institution’s other work?). Just an idea.
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LOL, I've totted it up and he's had 14 riders in the 5 1/2 years I've had him! Fair enough, some have been kids having pony rides, but there have been a fair few returners to riding, friends, neighbours etc, mostly enjoying pub rides and cantering the tracks. It's because he's an all round good egg who enjoys a bit of adventuring.

I get legal advice with my household insurance.

I looked long and hard and decided s proper insurance was safer for all concerned. It was tricky with the BHS as they didn't seem convinced that they even knew what they insured for. I had to ring the underwriters. As an aside, Rigs is actually insured for 'free' as a second horse means a % discount, which happened to cover his small premium.

BH is insured 'properly' with vets fees etc. Rigs just third party.
 
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