Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Would anyone mind letting me know if they have ever used these/ why they were using them/ what there experiences were? Thinking of using them for one of my guys......
thanx
thanx
KC Wraps
- Thread starter Kelpie
- Start date
brightmount
Well-Known Member
Do you mean the (KC La Pierre) Perfect Wear Hoof System wraps? If so, I had these put on my already barefoot horse last year when she had some bad white line disease, and they were fantastic. They supported the hoof while the disease grew out, they promoted growth, and by the next trim, I didn't need another application. You can ride and turn your horse out as normal.
And they help a shod horse transition to barefoot.
(Now you'll tell me you mean something completely different!)
And they help a shod horse transition to barefoot.
(Now you'll tell me you mean something completely different!)
Andalucian
Well-Known Member
I apply them to some horses I take on, depending on the state of their feet, it can be a real leg up to transitioning to barefeet, particularly for flat, underrun feet.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Hi, yes its those wraps 
And its kind of an experiment really. Horse has been mostly barefoot for 3 years but went to glue on shoes for a few months last summer as went sore when the ground hardened ... Was also lame about 2 years ago but never got to the bottom of it except for the possible theory of it being due to sidebone formation.... Hence the theory that shoes in the summer would have helped by stopping the foot moving and aggravating the sidebone.
He is not sore to foot testers but I do feel he is striding short again now when on hard ground ... And his turnout in winter involves hay being put on hard standing... So I wanted to see if the wraps could help by either providing support against movement that may be aggravating the sidebone or by improving foot structure generally?
And its kind of an experiment really. Horse has been mostly barefoot for 3 years but went to glue on shoes for a few months last summer as went sore when the ground hardened ... Was also lame about 2 years ago but never got to the bottom of it except for the possible theory of it being due to sidebone formation.... Hence the theory that shoes in the summer would have helped by stopping the foot moving and aggravating the sidebone.
He is not sore to foot testers but I do feel he is striding short again now when on hard ground ... And his turnout in winter involves hay being put on hard standing... So I wanted to see if the wraps could help by either providing support against movement that may be aggravating the sidebone or by improving foot structure generally?
Oberon
Well-Known Member
Are you sure there isn't a mineral deficiency? It tends to be the missing piece of the puzzle to most difficulty on hard ground.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Oberon, interesting thought.... I have tried loads of different feed options already but to no avail ... Tho must confess have not tried the mineral analysis route .... But if it were dietry wouldn't that show up with hoof testers?
Oberon
Well-Known Member
Hoof testers belong in the bin
My (sound) Arab throws himself on the floor at the sight of them after having a vet use them over a period of weeks in the past.
They cause pressure to a tiny area for a second or two - that's not the same the horse loading his full weight on a hoof during movement.
That's the key - horses are very rarely lame stood still. They are lame in movement. Considering the hooves are designed to belong on the horse they are attached to - you have to consider why there is a problem.
All we Barefoot Taliban babble on and on about feed and minerals nowadays because over the years there has always been the odd horse who 'just couldn't go barefoot'. It always frustrated us that we couldn't figure out why. Then we started doing forage analysis' and mineral balancing.....and suddenly we have the missing piece of the puzzle.
Some of these horses had really good diets that ticked ever box - but it just wasn't right for them.
I'm now interested in WHY some horses are more sensitive to mineral balance than others.....but that knowledge is too far away yet
paddy555
Well-Known Member
I don't think you can improve hoof structure by wraps I think you need to get to the bottom of the problem, sort that and then you will get improved hoof structure and more soundess on hard surfaces.
I would be looking to your diet, to grass and to minerals. What exactly are you feeding?
I see you are in Kent. The grass in Devon is very rich even now so I doubt Kent will be very different.
If you don't want to go down the mineral balancing route immediately (and diet or grass may be your problem) you could go for the half way house of equimins meta balance or pro hoof and give it 3 months to see if there is an improvement in hoof structure.
I would be looking to your diet, to grass and to minerals. What exactly are you feeding?
I see you are in Kent. The grass in Devon is very rich even now so I doubt Kent will be very different.
If you don't want to go down the mineral balancing route immediately (and diet or grass may be your problem) you could go for the half way house of equimins meta balance or pro hoof and give it 3 months to see if there is an improvement in hoof structure.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
LOL, Oberon .... tbh I've not thought about the hoof testers like that before. OK, I've tried so much else, what the heck, I should try the mineral balancing too. Have e-mailed forage plus
Paddy, I've so done the diet/ grass vs no grass thing to death with this horse - all bar trying the mineral balancing, that is - tho I have tried a selection of different vit & mn supplements..... none of it has made the slightest difference
(and LOL, in my dreams do I have a grass problem at the moment - we're on clay so all we have at this time of year is a mud problem! - my guys spend most of their time on the hard standing where their hay is.....).
Paddy, I've so done the diet/ grass vs no grass thing to death with this horse - all bar trying the mineral balancing, that is - tho I have tried a selection of different vit & mn supplements..... none of it has made the slightest difference
(and LOL, in my dreams do I have a grass problem at the moment - we're on clay so all we have at this time of year is a mud problem! - my guys spend most of their time on the hard standing where their hay is.....).
Oberon
Well-Known Member
The thing that sold me on it was Sarah Braithwaite's horse, Fari.
She started on the whole BF thing when Fari went lame in his shoes....
Years later and she was a well respected trimmer and one of the founders of the UKNHCP.
And yet Fari was never fully comfortable enough to do as much as her other horses without boots.
If even SHE couldn't get him fully rock crunching - then no one could.
But then she tried the whole forage analysis and mineral balancing thing.....and suddenly Fari is happy to do anything!
She believes in it so much - she set up ForagePlus.....
http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/page27.html (his story ends on the site before she mentions the more recent mineral balancing)
He was out hunting totally bare last week
It was enough to get me trying it - and I am amazed by the changes in my old boy (even though he was on a 'good' diet before that!)
She started on the whole BF thing when Fari went lame in his shoes....
Years later and she was a well respected trimmer and one of the founders of the UKNHCP.
And yet Fari was never fully comfortable enough to do as much as her other horses without boots.
If even SHE couldn't get him fully rock crunching - then no one could.
But then she tried the whole forage analysis and mineral balancing thing.....and suddenly Fari is happy to do anything!
She believes in it so much - she set up ForagePlus.....
http://www.performancebarefoot.co.uk/page27.html (his story ends on the site before she mentions the more recent mineral balancing)
He was out hunting totally bare last week
It was enough to get me trying it - and I am amazed by the changes in my old boy (even though he was on a 'good' diet before that!)
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
oh, if it were just a mineral issue, I'd cry with joy...... tho having tried so much dietry stuff, can it really be?..... only one way to find out, I know....
TigerTail
Well-Known Member
Whats he being fed?
Is there any thrush or infection going on?
PHWW wont help this sort of thing imo. I had them put on because my mares feet when I got her were really really over grown and had dreadful flare, at the time I used a DAEP trimmer who raved about all things kc. Any way she wanted to get on top of the flare in short order but couldnt trim her as much as she wanted to without the risk she might be sore on roads.
So we did wraps on all 4 feet (really fun with a horse who doesnt lke standing on 3 legs!) and she trimmed her right back so that there was no flare left and they did grow down at a better angle and had more growth in the space of time that we normally do.
Is there any thrush or infection going on?
PHWW wont help this sort of thing imo. I had them put on because my mares feet when I got her were really really over grown and had dreadful flare, at the time I used a DAEP trimmer who raved about all things kc. Any way she wanted to get on top of the flare in short order but couldnt trim her as much as she wanted to without the risk she might be sore on roads.
So we did wraps on all 4 feet (really fun with a horse who doesnt lke standing on 3 legs!) and she trimmed her right back so that there was no flare left and they did grow down at a better angle and had more growth in the space of time that we normally do.
Andalucian
Well-Known Member
Hi again, in my opinion sidebone only forms when you have poor medial/lateral balance, the foot creates sidebone to stablise itself. Be very aware of this issue, post photos if you like.
To be good most of the time, but go sore in the summer, does make me think that the grazing is causing the issue for him however. Is he a good doer, do you struggle to keep him slim in the summer?
I put a set of these wraps on a new client's horse yesterday. It was sore in shoes, less sore out of shoes, but really quite comfortable once in these wraps. Its not something he'll stay in, but for rehabilitation of delicate feet they're a really useful tool, and give owners some restful nights
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
thanks for your replies.
The foot soreness thing really isn't grass related, I'm sure of it...... I've done the whole off the grass thing/ on the grass and it makes no difference, it's the actual hardness of the ground that makes the difference.... as evidenced by the fact that I feel he's getting a bit sore again now, being on my hard-standing so much. When I say sore, by the way, I don't mean full on lame, but his stride overall shortens a bit, as though he's protecting himself.
I've also done the whole stripping the diet right back/ speedibeet + seaweed + brewers yeast thing but again made no difference, but did leave him lacking in energy, for the work we want to do (.... eventing, currently at pre-novice and if I can keep him sound, move up to novice this year).... tried the addition of soaked organic oats but still not enough energy. So back on good old fashioned baileys no4 now + extra vits & mins and also just started profeet. In between times I've tried various other feeds + supplements and none of them have made a difference to his feet. He's not at all fact - probably about the right weight actually.
I got him as a 7yo and he was already shod.... tbh I didn't think the shoeing looked bad + neither did my farrier but it's entirely possible he already had an imbalance that caused the sidebone before I even took him barefoot. Very hot on balance now tho - tho interestingly on his ex-rays, actually his p1, p2, p3 alignment is ever so slightly off so that in itself could have caused the sidebone.
No thrush, tho his frogs aren't as big as I might prefer (as he was shod last summer, in glue-on shoes, for the second half of the eventing season). No infection.
... hence you might see why I'm at a bit of a loss here so now just experimenting with anything else I can think of!
The foot soreness thing really isn't grass related, I'm sure of it...... I've done the whole off the grass thing/ on the grass and it makes no difference, it's the actual hardness of the ground that makes the difference.... as evidenced by the fact that I feel he's getting a bit sore again now, being on my hard-standing so much. When I say sore, by the way, I don't mean full on lame, but his stride overall shortens a bit, as though he's protecting himself.
I've also done the whole stripping the diet right back/ speedibeet + seaweed + brewers yeast thing but again made no difference, but did leave him lacking in energy, for the work we want to do (.... eventing, currently at pre-novice and if I can keep him sound, move up to novice this year).... tried the addition of soaked organic oats but still not enough energy. So back on good old fashioned baileys no4 now + extra vits & mins and also just started profeet. In between times I've tried various other feeds + supplements and none of them have made a difference to his feet. He's not at all fact - probably about the right weight actually.
I got him as a 7yo and he was already shod.... tbh I didn't think the shoeing looked bad + neither did my farrier but it's entirely possible he already had an imbalance that caused the sidebone before I even took him barefoot. Very hot on balance now tho - tho interestingly on his ex-rays, actually his p1, p2, p3 alignment is ever so slightly off so that in itself could have caused the sidebone.
No thrush, tho his frogs aren't as big as I might prefer (as he was shod last summer, in glue-on shoes, for the second half of the eventing season). No infection.
... hence you might see why I'm at a bit of a loss here so now just experimenting with anything else I can think of!
Oberon
Well-Known Member
Seaweed is no longer recommended unless the forage is found low in iodine.
More balanced minerals is def worth a try IMO.
But if you aren't convinced - then wraps may well be worth a go.
More balanced minerals is def worth a try IMO.
But if you aren't convinced - then wraps may well be worth a go.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
thanx oberon.... didn't know that seaweed had gone out of favour, so to speak, so that's good to know
Have e-mailed using the contact page forageplus - I don't suppose you happen to know if that's working OK, do you? ... e-mailed Friday, but maybe I'm just too much of a computer geek and expect replies to quickly
Definately planning on giving the mineral balancing a go - worst ways it's just another possibility eliminated, best ways, it could be the answer
Have e-mailed using the contact page forageplus - I don't suppose you happen to know if that's working OK, do you? ... e-mailed Friday, but maybe I'm just too much of a computer geek and expect replies to quickly
Definately planning on giving the mineral balancing a go - worst ways it's just another possibility eliminated, best ways, it could be the answer
Oberon
Well-Known Member
thanx oberon.... didn't know that seaweed had gone out of favour, so to speak, so that's good to know
Have e-mailed using the contact page forageplus - I don't suppose you happen to know if that's working OK, do you? ... e-mailed Friday, but maybe I'm just too much of a computer geek and expect replies to quickly
Seaweed had it's place and it was one of the first pieces of the puzzle...but things have moved on now forage analysis' have become more accessible.
My old boy started in earnest on the balanced minerals in August (I didn't bother feeding him over the summer). He was sound, healthy and had a 'good' diet beforehand.....
But I was astounded by the changes the minerals brought.
http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=498827&highlight=minerals
I don't know about the email to Sarah at ForagePlus - but she tends to compete or hunt most weekends, so she may just reply Mon - Fri?
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Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Thanx again oberon. Interesting conversation on that thread...how long in your experience does it take to see a difference from the minerals?
Oberon
Well-Known Member
Obi suffered with sulcus thrush for many years while shod and contracted at the heel. The many farriers I had over the years never mentioned it and I never saw it myself. Once I engaged the services of a trimmer, it was treated and sorted.
I am ashamed that I thought for over ten years that the flinching he did when I touched his frogs was 'just a habit'.
He has been thrush free for six years now. But this August (when he chose to start coming in at night) I noticed a slight contraction in his heels and a possibilty of thrush returning.
He was getting the minerals while I spent two weeks 'thinking about getting around to' digging out a potion to put on his frog to kick any lurking infection.....but I looked at his hooves and suddenly they'd pinged back open! Also his white line (he's an Arab who's never suffered from lami) was tighter than I'd seen in 20 years together.
Those were the first changes I noticed. I am sure experts will say it takes much longer to see any benefits - but knowing how very reactive the hooves are to diet (and everything else) I can fully believe the benefits started within those two weeks.
I am ashamed that I thought for over ten years that the flinching he did when I touched his frogs was 'just a habit'.
He has been thrush free for six years now. But this August (when he chose to start coming in at night) I noticed a slight contraction in his heels and a possibilty of thrush returning.
He was getting the minerals while I spent two weeks 'thinking about getting around to' digging out a potion to put on his frog to kick any lurking infection.....but I looked at his hooves and suddenly they'd pinged back open! Also his white line (he's an Arab who's never suffered from lami) was tighter than I'd seen in 20 years together.
Those were the first changes I noticed. I am sure experts will say it takes much longer to see any benefits - but knowing how very reactive the hooves are to diet (and everything else) I can fully believe the benefits started within those two weeks.
muff747
Well-Known Member
I too was blind to the thrush and my farrier said he hadn't got it but when I look at the pics now from when he was shod - OMG it was bad. I struggled for years to get rid of it and everytime there was the mereest whiff of a smell, he was footy so I'd start the treatment again, scrubbing, spraying with teatree oil and diluted borax (Margaret Smith potion) getting every little bit of mud out from every little crevice in his foot.
I think now, that aggressive treatment was helping to encourage it. Now I'm a lot more gentle and carefully brush out and pick out dirt or leave it alone and I have found much less thrush.
When you pick out his feet there should be NO smell, if there is **any** smell at all, you have thrush and it will make him sore. Sometimes all you can see is like a black sooty colour in the grooves which shouldn't be there.
He sounds very much like my boy, I struggled for years with LGL and no amount of minerals, feed changes etc seemed to make any difference. I don't know if this is any help but I have recently moved him to a yard on high ground. The thinking being, we moved from a yard on high ground when he was relatively sound, to a yard in the bottom of a valley next to a river and his health deteriorated from the first spring grass. He has only just been able to be kept like a "normal" horse since the move.
I think now, that aggressive treatment was helping to encourage it. Now I'm a lot more gentle and carefully brush out and pick out dirt or leave it alone and I have found much less thrush.
When you pick out his feet there should be NO smell, if there is **any** smell at all, you have thrush and it will make him sore. Sometimes all you can see is like a black sooty colour in the grooves which shouldn't be there.
He sounds very much like my boy, I struggled for years with LGL and no amount of minerals, feed changes etc seemed to make any difference. I don't know if this is any help but I have recently moved him to a yard on high ground. The thinking being, we moved from a yard on high ground when he was relatively sound, to a yard in the bottom of a valley next to a river and his health deteriorated from the first spring grass. He has only just been able to be kept like a "normal" horse since the move.
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
ooh, as little as a couple of weeks or so.... how exciting Forage analysis already ordered
Muff, I'm pretty happy that his frogs are thrus free, tho on his fronts (where he was shod in the summer) they are definately still smaller...... hmmm, surely there can't be thrush somehow lurking that I can't see? We're using a KC trimmer at the mo so she does tidy the frogs up so surely we'd see any thrush that was somehow burried??
Forage analysis already ordered Muff, I'm pretty happy that his frogs are thrus free, tho on his fronts (where he was shod in the summer) they are definately still smaller...... hmmm, surely there can't be thrush somehow lurking that I can't see? We're using a KC trimmer at the mo so she does tidy the frogs up so surely we'd see any thrush that was somehow burried??