Keep insuring - or not!?

[Cinnamontoast]

With hers, CC? I know early neutering can be a contributing factor. I haven’t asked her if he’s entire. Jake was, so not the issue there. I stopped talking to her about it when her face fell at the concept that generally, the second one also goes (according to my vet, Jake’s certainly did and the insurer refused to pay out, calling it a ‘pre-existing condition’)

 

[{97702}]

Not all cancer is bone cancer (widely known as being very painful and pretty quickly fatal). Some Lymphomas for example do very well if the correct type and diagnosed early enough that you wouldn’t realise if you came across a dog on chemo for it I’m sure. ‘Cancer’ is such a broad spectrum of diseases.

Yes I know that very well - my lurcher had lymphoma of the gut, not bone cancer which was just used as an example....

Maybe my vet was simply incompetent & didn’t diagnose it quickly enough, despite repeated visits and requests for further treatment?

And maybe the vet treating Hoover was ignoring what was in front of her, which was that the dog was simply wasting away in front of her?

And maybe the vet that treated Jura greyhound was also incompetent and ignored the fact that by the end she was so weak and emaciated that she could hardly stand (to my eternal and everlasting shame and regret)?

These are different vets in every scenario - I am not unlucky, this is not unsual - vets do not always know best whatever they like to think, an owner knows their animal far better than a vet will ever do

 

[rara007]

I expect they were doing their best with the information available. There’s plenty of owners that most definitely don’t know best sadly!

 

[CorvusCorax]

With hers, CC? I know early neutering can be a contributing factor. I haven’t asked her if he’s entire. Jake was, so not the issue there. I stopped talking to her about it when her face fell at the concept that generally, the second one also goes (according to my vet, Jake’s certainly did and the insurer refused to pay out, calling it a ‘pre-existing condition’)

I was wondering generally.

 

[splashgirl45]

this owner does know best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[{97702}]

I expect they were doing their best with the information available. There’s plenty of owners that most definitely don’t know best sadly!

Not the case - I am a very experienced owner and I knew perfectly well what was going on with these dogs, they chose to carry on treating individual symptoms not the overall picture. Totally unacceptable

 

[CorvusCorax]

PS I read the Ts&Cs of my policy while waiting for a boat and it's hardly worth the paper it's written on, but hey ho....

 

[{97702}]

PS I read the Ts&Cs of my policy while waiting for a boat and it's hardly worth the paper it's written on, but hey ho....

Waiting for a boat???!!! That’s different 😄😄

I have had enough experience of equine insurance to know how much they can exclude at a drop of a hat.... but still the main factor for me is that the main cost implications with the type of breed I misguidedly have 😄 are not covered by insurance

 

[CorvusCorax]

It was a big boat and there wasn't much else to do.

 

[{97702}]

It was a big boat and there wasn't much else to do.

You were in Jaws???!!! 😱😱😱

That’s probably my age there...😛

 

[Tiddlypom]

We've never insured any of the dogs and cats that we've owned. I can't remember any of them having any condition/accident that insurance would have paid out on anyway, just dentals and occasional stomach upsets, they went on to die of old age. They were all vaccinated and had their yearly health checks at the vets, btw.

As said upthread, we'd also never put them through long and unpleasant treatment either, insured or not.

 

[BBP]

there is the difference - my dog was diagnosed with lymphoma and i immediately PTS, it had nothing whatsoever to do with vets bills, it had everything to do with quality of life for that particular dog. Personally I wouldn’t put a dog through cheno. I wouldn’t keep an incontinent dog going, I wouldn’t struggle to maintain quality of life due to kidney or liver failure - my dog has been a loyal and loving companion over the years, I would make the most compassionate choice (in my opinion for all the pedants on the forum!) and would PTS

Thank you for your compassionate and empathetic reply about my friends dog. I didn’t say they had decided to go for chemo, but that they were 6k down just getting to a diagnosis. Personally you can do whatever the hell you like.

 

[{97702}]

Thank you for your compassionate and empathetic reply about my friends dog. I didn’t say they had decided to go for chemo, but that they were 6k down just getting to a diagnosis. Personally you can do whatever the hell you like.

I would question the competence of their vet if it took them £5k just to get a diagnosis, poor dog ☹️

 

[cbmcts]

I would question the competence of their vet if it took them £5k just to get a diagnosis

Actually I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it took £5k - when MRIs and CT scans run to £2.5 - £3k each - most people don't go straight to them so a few consultations at your local vets, xrays, meds will be £2 - £500 at least, then a referral to a specialist £200 just to walk in the door. It can add up very quickly.

Despite insuring I haven't in the past and will never treat bone cancer ( my breed is also very prone to it) and all treatment is based on quality of life so old animals get palliative care until they are no longer happy but I believe vets are obliged to offer all options to owners?

CT

If it helps your friend both Animal Health Trust and the Royal Vet College have offered me payment plans when I have had an uninsured dog treated by them but it was some years ago. It might be worth them inquiring?

 

[{97702}]

Ah my dogs lymphoma was diagnosed by biopsy, and I’ve had scans which haven’t been as expensive as that - my apologies, clearly it varies by geographical area

 

[rara007]

And there lies one of the (potential) benefits of insurance- earlier and less invasive diagnostics. Or as in the case of CTs unfortunate dog reliable staging to base descisions on. Touch wood I’ve not had to claim on my boys insurance and I hope it stays that way! As he gets older (and calmer) I’ll probably drop it but I can’t afford the risk yet, his attitude is a broken leg or cruciate in waiting!

 

[{97702}]

And there lies one of the (potential) benefits of insurance- earlier and less invasive diagnostics. Or as in the case of CTs unfortunate dog reliable staging to base descisions on. Touch wood I’ve not had to claim on my boys insurance and I hope it stays that way! As he gets older (and calmer) I’ll probably drop it but I can’t afford the risk yet, his attitude is a broken leg or cruciate in waiting!

And there lies the danger of assumptions lol - my dog was only operated on after a scan had shown, in the vets opinion, a need for invasive techniques.

In his case I didn’t wait for result of the biopsies, I knew the results of his surgery meant there was not going to be a good outcome regardless of whether it was lymphoma or not so he was PTS that day.

 

[rara007]

MRI? What were they hoping to find that would have left an acceptable enough outcome to not PTS on the table or just after? I guess that’s what makes us all different- I wouldn’t put our old lab through a GA let alone abdo surgery but wouldn’t hesitate to start him on steroids at an appropriate dose to maintain quality of life.

 

[Tiddlypom]

And maybe premiums are so high because having insurance means folk are encouraged to chuck every vaguely relevant diagnostic test at a dog? Like in the horse world?

Luckily both the small and the large animal practices that I use are very pragmatic. No guilt tripping owners who prefer to call it a day early.

 

[{97702}]

MRI? What were they hoping to find that would have left an acceptable enough outcome to not PTS on the table or just after? I guess that’s what makes us all different- I wouldn’t put our old lab through a GA let alone abdo surgery but wouldn’t hesitate to start him on steroids at an appropriate dose to maintain quality of life.

This was 2008, so not an MRI scan - the scan showed thickening of the gut wall that I was told needed further investigation, the dog was operated on that afternoon. I had presented the dog with consistent diarrhoea, that was his only symptom, I was naive enough in those days to think the vet knew what he was doing. The whole gut was massively inflamed, I was told best case scenario was IBS and worst case was lymphoma - the dog never came round from the anaesthetic, at my instruction, despite ‘surprise’ from the vet.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I was wondering generally.

Dunno, I mean, 16 years ago when we found Jake and Brig’s litter, we hadn’t heard of health tests/hipscoring. Bonkers naive, I know.

CT

If it helps your friend both Animal Health Trust and the Royal Vet College have offered me payment plans when I have had an uninsured dog treated by them but it was some years ago. It might be worth them inquiring?

I will let her know, thanks. We’re near the RVC.

MRI? What were they hoping to find that would have left an acceptable enough outcome to not PTS on the table or just after? I guess that’s what makes us all different- I wouldn’t put our old lab through a GA let alone abdo surgery but wouldn’t hesitate to start him on steroids at an appropriate dose to maintain quality of life.

Don’t know if you’re talking to me, rara? We were immediately referred to the RVC because he just kept falling over and the vet wanted a specialist to see him, as did we. I’m glad we had the MRI, it made the decision a lot easier. It was useful to have the MRI and see that other problems were present. The offer of steroids to see if they could shrink the tumours wasn’t a consideration for us because he couldn’t walk. The picture the specialist drew (literally) showed tumours in between vertebrae. The receptionist at the vet had a similar issue and told us some weeks later (we’d just got the pups) that her dog had finally been pts after weeks of being unable to walk and lying in his own faeces despite the steroids. I wouldn’t do that to mine, particularly with little prospect of recovery anyway.

I think as owners, we have the responsibility to make the end of life decisions and do what we think is best, with vet’s advice. If quality of life is good, carry on, if not, we have to make those very difficult decisions as two of us have this week.

 

[ester]

Rara was checking what scan Lev's dog had had meaning that it then had exploratory surgery.

I do think premiums are higher in part because diagnostics are much improved. But for the most part that is because it is in the animals best interests as it avoids having to go in to have a look and can mean quicker more appropriate treatment

 

[rara007]

Yes I was checking which scan then needed an exploratory surgery after it as usually the mri is pretty conclusive as in your case! Not aimed at you- sorry! Sounds like absolutely the right call for him, there was no life worth living left and that was easier to know for sure with the scan results.

 

[Clodagh]

Not the case - I am a very experienced owner and I knew perfectly well what was going on with these dogs, they chose to carry on treating individual symptoms not the overall picture. Totally unacceptable

You allowed them to though? You can insist on PTS. You must have paid for it all and given your consent.

 

[Clodagh]

Well I cancelled Tawny's policy today. You wait, she will run into a wall tomorrow...crosses fingers not...

 

[{97702}]

You allowed them to though? You can insist on PTS. You must have paid for it all and given your consent.

No, I called a stop to treatment and insisted on PTS at the appropriate time, when the vets were recommending further tests and treatment and it became very clear they didn’t have a clue what was actually wrong with the dog.

In every one of the 3 cases I insisted on PTS when the treating vet would have carried on treatment for weeks at least, and in every one of those 3 cases I was met with surprise and almost shock from the vet when I made my decision

ETA - actually I’m not sure there is much difference between surprise and shock is there

 

[rara007]

Fingers crossed no wall Running antics! At the end of the day it’s a gamble whichever way you play it and everyone’s attitudes to vet care and finances are different, as are all the individual animals from 20 year old arthritics with bad skin to 6 month old sock eating loons! I’m not sure what age I’ll insure the spaniel up to, the week before he does something stupid no doubt.

 

[Cinnamontoast]

I was speaking to the y/o’s wife just now. They bumped into us going into the vet’s on Tuesday and saw that we were in a state, bless. She had her gsd on the lead and was telling me how he’s cost almost £8000 now he’s had his femoral head ostectomy-hip dysplasia. Her vet fee cover was only £2000.

I think some of us, me included, have insurance through sheer fear. I have to say I’m glad of it after having a horse pts after £5000 of treatment then the dog for whom we paid the second £3000 of £6000. I’m concerned this year about the horse insurance, he’s 16. It’s due next month. If they only offer limited/veteran cover, I’ll have to think about what to do.

Fingers crossed, Clodagh, no running into anything!

 

[MurphysMinder]

My older GSD hasnt been insured for about 3 years, since the insurance decided to almost double the premium when she reached 7, despite never claiming. I was seriously considering cancelling insurance for her daughter (7 next month) until she started limping the day before renewal and I thought it might be tempting fate a bit! Typically within 24 hours she was sound.

 

[Equi]

Ive never insured anything.

Sorry I’m not sure what the “warning” is? That sort of bill is potentially part and parcel of owning a dog for me, and if you can’t ‘manage’ that then you should consider whether you should really have a dog IMO. The cruciate bill is high but not unusual, the £400 is peanuts quite honestly - I’ve paid far more than that for a routine dental.... which of course isn’t covered under insurance!

hmm. Not sure on that. Injury is a chance, it can happen or it can not. Ive never insured any dog ever and the only time i have ever had to pay money was when my staffy was hit by a car and dislocated her hip. £500 later she came home. I dont think its quite fair to say if you can't pay 3k for something outright, you should not have it. You can still afford to look after an animal perfectly well without paying the money to insurance for something you may never need.