Keep looking or wait and see?

[charlotte0916]

I’m finally back riding my mare! I’ve had her for 6 months now but it’s been one problem after another (see previous threads!). We got cleared for walk work at the start of last week and she’s been good as gold.

The thing that is niggling at me though is despite scoping clear following ulcer treatment 2 months ago she’s still not entirely happy about being tacked up. I know she’s got pain memory now associated with the whole process so have done clicker training which she’s taken to like a duck to water. However - she’d got to the point of being tacked up without faces/snapping and generally staying relaxed but after our first ride she reverted back to being a bit snappy and tense tacking up the next day and since hasn’t got back to being as relaxed about it again.

Now, she is a pretty mare-mare at the best of times with strong opinions and moods that change faster than the wind BUT I’m weighing up if I should be investigating further e.g. were the ulcers secondary to pain rather than the stress of moving which we assumed.

She is pretty sensitive over her back/croup/quarters... would you go looking or give it time?

She has an appointment with the vet in 3 weeks to re scan her ligament following a kick in the field/10 week box rest stint - so could bring it up then or sooner.

 

[GrassChop]

What grade ulcers did she have? Could it have been caused by the ligament and box rest?
I'd maybe try putting her on a gut supplement for hind gut as I understand that ulcer treatment can aggravate that. Has she had physio too? She may be sore from the box rest. I'd try those things first and go from there.

 

[charlotte0916]

She came to me with grade 4 and had them at least 4 months prior although doing more digging since I’ve had her it looks like she could have had them for a long time as she’s ‘always been mareish’ with the girth since she was backed. I have to move her yards in about 2 weeks so she’ll be going back on a half dose of omeprazole and sucralfate for a week either side of the move to keep anything at bay/help if box rest made things flare up again.

Ive heard that about the hind gut but don’t quite understand it all - is there a particular supplement/management that’s good for hind gut ulcers?

I’ve asked the vet about physio and they said they’d recommend it after she’s had the next scan. Not entirely sure why but I think they just want to go sequentially through all treatment then recovery.

What grade ulcers did she have? Could it have been caused by the ligament and box rest?
I'd maybe try putting her on a gut supplement for hind gut as I understand that ulcer treatment can aggravate that. Has she had physio too? She may be sore from the box rest. I'd try those things first and go from there.

 

[GrassChop]

She came to me with grade 4 and had them at least 4 months prior although doing more digging since I’ve had her it looks like she could have had them for a long time as she’s ‘always been mareish’ with the girth since she was backed. I have to move her yards in about 2 weeks so she’ll be going back on a half dose of omeprazole and sucralfate for a week either side of the move to keep anything at bay/help if box rest made things flare up again.

Ive heard that about the hind gut but don’t quite understand it all - is there a particular supplement/management that’s good for hind gut ulcers?

I’ve asked the vet about physio and they said they’d recommend it after she’s had the next scan. Not entirely sure why but I think they just want to go sequentially through all treatment then recovery.

Aww bless her.
There are quite a few supplements on the market for hind gut. My vet recommended Coopers Gut Support but a lot also recommend Protexin Gut Balancer. Oily herbs are also good so dried rosemary, oregano and thyme to feed the good bacteria I believe.
There are more expensive ones like Succeed and Equishure which a lot of people recommend but I've got no personal experience with that. I found both Coopers and Protexin good and I have oily herbs on the way to try.

I'd maybe put her on a gut balancer now and carry on as normal. By the time the ligament is rescanned, it should be in her system. If it's working, you may see a change in her behaviour. If not, keep her on it and get physio, continue rehabbing for another month and if there is still no change, maybe look into sending her for a work up. I think it's just important not to do everything all at once otherwise you might not know what is working. Was she vetted? What breed is she? Could it be pssm?

 

[charlotte0916]

That’s really good to know, thank you for the suggestions!

It’s been so tricky having one thing after another - makes it hard to know what’s affecting what! She was vetted and the vet loved her at the vetting, said she was one of the most balanced/sound horses she’d seen in years - we’ve just had some bad luck combined with a yard that hasn’t quite worked for us. She’s a warmblood x tb - I’ve heard of PSSM but don’t really know anything about it?

It was actually mentioned when she had a really odd reaction to an omeprazole injection at one point - her muscles all went rock solid and reactive to any touch and she was acting doped - very odd, the vet wasn’t sure what to make of it!

Aww bless her.
There are quite a few supplements on the market for hind gut. My vet recommended Coopers Gut Support but a lot also recommend Protexin Gut Balancer. Oily herbs are also good so dried rosemary, oregano and thyme to feed the good bacteria I believe.
There are more expensive ones like Succeed and Equishure which a lot of people recommend but I've got no personal experience with that. I found both Coopers and Protexin good and I have oily herbs on the way to try.

I'd maybe put her on a gut balancer now and carry on as normal. By the time the ligament is rescanned, it should be in her system. If it's working, you may see a change in her behaviour. If not, keep her on it and get physio, continue rehabbing for another month and if there is still no change, maybe look into sending her for a work up. I think it's just important not to do everything all at once otherwise you might not know what is working. Was she vetted? What breed is she? Could it be pssm?

 

[GrassChop]

That’s really good to know, thank you for the suggestions!

It’s been so tricky having one thing after another - makes it hard to know what’s affecting what! She was vetted and the vet loved her at the vetting, said she was one of the most balanced/sound horses she’d seen in years - we’ve just had some bad luck combined with a yard that hasn’t quite worked for us. She’s a warmblood x tb - I’ve heard of PSSM but don’t really know anything about it?

It was actually mentioned when she had a really odd reaction to an omeprazole injection at one point - her muscles all went rock solid and reactive to any touch and she was acting doped - very odd, the vet wasn’t sure what to make of it!

No problem!
That does sound a bit like PSSM, does she often feel very solid all over? Has she ever looked like she is tying up? While you're waiting, it might be worth testing. You can do hair tests for all the current types I believe.

This is for the type 2 panel test: http://equiseq.com/buy_pssm2.php and this is type 1 test: https://www.animalgenetics.eu/Equine/Genetic_Disease/PSSM.asp

Warmblood and TB can be susceptible to type 2.

Or if you don't want to/can't test, try putting her on natural Vitamin E 10000iu, keeping her warm and dropping any excess sugar and see how she is. That's usually a good way to tell but knowing the specific type will help with management as she might benefit from extra protein and other things.

 

[ycbm]

The type 2 PSSM DNA test has failed peer review because 25% of horses who do not have PSSM test positive for the genes they are looking for.

The only way to diagnose type 2 is biopsy.
.

 

[charlotte0916]

I had heard something to this effect, thank you for the info.

The type 2 PSSM DNA test has failed peer review because 25% of horses who do not have PSSM test positive for the genes they are looking for.

The only way to diagnose type 2 is biopsy.
.

 

[charlotte0916]

Interesting, so PSSM may be worth looking into!

 

[ycbm]

I would add to that, if your horse responds well to diet changes for a PSSM horse, then a diagnosis is largely irrelevant. I had one like this.
.

 

[charlotte0916]

I would add to that, if your horse responds well to diet changes for a PSSM horse, then a diagnosis is largely irrelevant. I had one like this.
.

I’ve heard that natural vit e is better than synthetic - is there one you’d recommend?

 

[ycbm]

I’ve heard that natural vit e is better than synthetic - is there one you’d recommend?

Any natural vitamin E will do but I think there are currently only 2 UK suppliers, Forageplus and Progressive Earth. You can use synthetic but you need to use twice as much. The explanation for that is that the synthetic molecule comes in a left handed and a right hand version and the horse can only absorb one of those.

Beware of anything with selenium in, because selenium is toxic in the doses of vitamin E that PSSM horses usually need.
.

 

[GrassChop]

I would add to that, if your horse responds well to diet changes for a PSSM horse, then a diagnosis is largely irrelevant. I had one like this.
.

Diagnosis is not necessarily irrelevant as type 1 management is different to type 2 and many of the other types can all present differently.

As a generalisation though, yes, high vitamin e dosage, a good protein source and warmth will usually work for type 2 and low sugar for type 1 but any horse benefits from not having excess sugar anyway but would need stricter grass management for that type so it does help knowing which one.

In OP's case, it is probably likely to be type 2 if it is PSSM.

OP, what do you currently feed?

 

[charlotte0916]

Good to know, thank you!
Currently she’s fed Dengie healthy tummy, the premier performance calmer as she comes off box rest and oestress for the summer.

 

[GrassChop]

Good to know, thank you!
Currently she’s fed Dengie healthy tummy, the premier performance calmer as she comes off box rest and oestress for the summer.

I'm not sure why I hadn't thought of it before but have you had her ovaries scanned?