Keepers on fulmer snaffles?

iknowmyvalue

iknowmyvalue

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Tried a fulmer on Henry in my lesson today, because we've been having a few issues with straightness and leaning on one side, and he also is very prone to pinching the sides of his mouth (even with a correctly fitted bit) so instructor suggested that a full cheek bit might help us correct the issue and also wouldn't rub as much. Tried a standard full cheek and a fulmer, and he definitely preferred the fulmer. We will be using this bit for at least a little while as he went well in it and it did help a lot with the straighntness. However, I know that you're supposed to use a fulmer with the leather keepers (which we didn't have today). But my issue is that I can't see how you could possibly attach them to the bit and cheekpiece without putting the bit at a strange angle in the mouth, which can't be comfortable for the horse? I'm pretty sure the bit is the correct size and at the right height in the mouth, and it seemed to be sitting in the right place without keepers, but the cheekpieces seem so far away from the arms of the bit that I can't imagine how it would fit properly with the keepers on.

Does anyone have photos of their horse in a fulmer with keepers? Is it ok to use the bit without them? (I know I need to be careful it doesn't get caught) Should the bit sit differently than in the photo below?

PWkOLfC.jpg

Ignore the hard hat, he was trying to eat it so I put it on his head instead :D but I think this is the best photo I have to show how the bit was sitting in relation to the rest of the bridle...
 
I haven't seen keepers on a Fulmer since ..... away back last century some time. Somewhere in the back of my memory is that they were banned for dressage because they contribute to poll pressure? I could be way wrong, but it rings a bell.
 
I use a standard fixed full cheek and don't use them, and know plenty who use a loose ring like you have there and don't use them. I used them at first with Chilli but have found they made no difference at all :)
 
iknowmyvalue said:
Tried a fulmer on Henry in my lesson today, because we've been having a few issues with straightness and leaning on one side, and he also is very prone to pinching the sides of his mouth (even with a correctly fitted bit) so instructor suggested that a full cheek bit might help us correct the issue and also wouldn't rub as much. Tried a standard full cheek and a fulmer, and he definitely preferred the fulmer. We will be using this bit for at least a little while as he went well in it and it did help a lot with the straighntness. However, I know that you're supposed to use a fulmer with the leather keepers (which we didn't have today). But my issue is that I can't see how you could possibly attach them to the bit and cheekpiece without putting the bit at a strange angle in the mouth, which can't be comfortable for the horse? I'm pretty sure the bit is the correct size and at the right height in the mouth, and it seemed to be sitting in the right place without keepers, but the cheekpieces seem so far away from the arms of the bit that I can't imagine how it would fit properly with the keepers on.

Does anyone have photos of their horse in a fulmer with keepers? Is it ok to use the bit without them? (I know I need to be careful it doesn't get caught) Should the bit sit differently than in the photo below?

PWkOLfC.jpg

Ignore the hard hat, he was trying to eat it so I put it on his head instead :D but I think this is the best photo I have to show how the bit was sitting in relation to the rest of the bridle...
Click to expand...

One of the points of the keepers is to aid turning by making contact with the horses cheek when a rein aid is given to turn, keeps the upper long cheeks away from the face when on straight lines unless contact in turning and the bit is more stable and in the correct position. There is no point (IME) on using a fulmer without them, as they only stop the bit sliding though a degree the cheeks play no part in turning a horse. The Fulmer differs from the full cheek in many ways but the most obvious is the angle of the top of the long cheek angles out away from the face and is thinner than the full cheek, it was also used or was used a lot in the past on riding school horses who were bad at responding with clients.


Not many videos on this subject but this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adK4mi7Kncc

Here is a example of with and without keepers although this is not the fulmer snaffle https://equineink.com/2011/01/13/fitting-a-full-cheek-snaffle-2/
 
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You don't have to use the keepers - and if you do they add poll pressure which he may not like. But if you don't you have to be very vigilant when the bit is it as the cheek pieces can be very easily caught on things. If he rubbed his face on his exercise wraps for instance, on you, on a snag out hacking...

My personal view is that if you can't use keepers the bit isn't really suitable and I would be looking for another version which was safer. There are so many bitting options now - you could talk to the horse bit bank or the bit shop and see what they have to mimic the action without the risk of those full cheeks sticking out. But that said I know people who do use fulmers without keepers and are happy with the risk.
 
Keepers are inexpensive and so it might be worth giving them a try to see what your horse prefers.

The pic you have put up OP would show a different angle of the mouthpiece / cheekpieces if the reins were tensioned in a proper contact. The angle would be closer to what we see with Fulmer loops but with the Fulmer loops the mouthpiece would stay in that position all of the time whereas without the mouthpiece will rotate a little depending on contact, alignment of head to the vertical, height of horses head and length of rein / position of head.

So it depends on your horse whether they like movement or not. Worth trying both ways
 
Thank you all! It seems like I should get my hands on some keepers and give it a go! We would have tried it with them last night except instructor couldn't find any. Will order some for it and see how it goes :)
 
I am not sure why the manufacturers who make the modern types of bits (well shaped lozenge type mouthpieces) don't appear to make proper fulmers, only full cheek snaffles. I would like something like an NS or Sprenger as a proper Fulmer with loose rings but can never seem to find a suitable one
 
Wheels said:
I am not sure why the manufacturers who make the modern types of bits (well shaped lozenge type mouthpieces) don't appear to make proper fulmers, only full cheek snaffles. I would like something like an NS or Sprenger as a proper Fulmer with loose rings but can never seem to find a suitable one
Click to expand...

I was having the same problem! Decided we will haven to settle for a normal French link. If anyone ever finds a proper filter with a lozenge I'd license to know!
 
I've found those round rubber thingies work well for my youngster on a French link snaffle helps with turning and stopping the bit sliding through the mouth.
 
I've been using a nice French link Fulmer with my horse since I bought him. For a good few months, we've been riding without the Fulmer keepers on, and he was fine with it. Every now and again, the arms got looped through the drop noseband of his Micklem, but it was easy enough to fix it, even while we were riding.

A few weeks ago, I thought that maybe I should try the keepers and see if they made a difference to the consistency of his acceptance of my rein pressure (long standing issue with previous owners, and something we're working through together now). He was OK without the keepers, but I wondered if they would make a difference because they fix the bit in a more stable position in their mouths.

At first, when I put the bridle on with the keepers, he mouthed the bit quite a lot, and wasn't sure he liked it. I spent a few days just hooking them up for a minute or so, and increased the times he was bitted with the keepers. Then I lunged him with them, then had a little ride with them. Now, he's fully used to them and doesn't mind them in the slightest. I think he actually prefers having them on, even though he wasn't sure at first.

Give them a go!
 
I ride in a fulmer as opposed to a full cheek. I also do in hand with the fulmer.. to my mind the bending and flexing aids work as well if not better without the keepers..

I found with the keepers effectively the bit is always ON.. so if you like to ride with the option of the release then without keepers is better as you cannot simply have a light "listening" contact with them.

When I tried riding with the keepers my horse didn't like the poll pressure and I think didn't like the fact that the bit was always ON / fixed by the keepers plus I felt my listening contact was unachievable. So for me the keepers simply got in the way of the conversation (between my and my horse).

But as others have said they are very cheap so give them a go and form your own opinion.
 
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