Keeping a horse stabled 24/7!!

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Caritas

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Now before you all shout me down please listen very carefully!!
I have owned my horse since 3 years old, he is now 10. He has had many accidents turned out and constantly pulls his shoes off. I have put the accidents to the back of my mind and taken his shoes off to prevent further injury but I still have an issue that he is dangerous to turn out. He used to pull away going down to the field so with help of other aids, i.e pressure halters etc, it helped me overcome this problem. However, then I had a problem of taking the halters off before I let him go in the field, he just wouldnt wait! So I had a small pen inside of his gateway that allowed me to get the halter off before i let him out. I then had the problem that I couldnt walk him into the field then without him running off as I never had the halter on so it got to the stage that it was safer all round if I just let him go into the pen and opened the gateway for him to run out. Now the problem with this was that the minute I let him go in the pen (approx, 7 foot round) he would just spin and spin on his back lets round and round until i opened the gate and there were times that he almost flattened me. This obviously also was not idea so eventually I used sedalin to sedate him and walked him out of the pen into his paddock just with his headcollar on so i could turn him to face me and then let him go, this really WORKS! The problem is that I really dont want to have to sedated him everyday so I tried doing it without sedation once it had become more of a habit. This worked for several weeks, maybe as long as two months but then a few days ago he tried to go through the electric taped gateway that I use to let him into his field and got caught up in it, he is fine but obviously this is very dangerous. I sedated him for a few days again and then tried it, the first day he was ok and the second day he tried to mow me over again wanting to go through the fence, I smacked him which in turn gave me chance to release the electric tape so there was an entrance, he hurried through without pulling anway and turned to face me before I let him go. Then the problem I had today was that as I turned him in his pen towards the electric fenced gateway to open it to let him out he went to mow me over again, I didnt want him to go over me or get caught in the tape so I raised my hand, this panicked him as he is such a nervous horse and he backed up and planted himself and wouldnt walk forward close enough for me to open the tape. Eventually I managed to clip it off the catch which frightened him and he backed into the rest of the taped pen and ran out the gap taking the whole lot with him. Now I would class myself as a very experienced owner but I am not willing to risk my or my horses life just for a bit of turnout in the field. The horse is the same if he is out all day or just out for a few hours, it doesnt really make any difference if he is worked first or not, maybe he is a little more sedate. The problem is that the more stopping and waiting we do builds up the anticipation of going out even more so i could not stand in the pen with him until he calmed down cause it wouldnt happen and it would just lead to a nasty accident. I dont feel that I could turn him out without the pen as he would know the routine and would try and go by the gateway in the field and he would barge me to get in and then he would be loose with his rope hanging down and more broken headcollars. Please give me any advice but DO NOT be judgemental as this is a very serious and dangerous issue. Many thanks for getting this far, interested to hear your replies.
 
Um.... do you turn him out in a headcollar or not? I know its not the answer but it may be quicker for you if you could just unclip a leadrope and let him go in headcollar?
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I had one who was impossible to catch and then would try and charge off before you could let go of him when putting him back out.

I used to turn him out in a bridle which worked (not sure it would work in your case?) or have a couple of treats in my hand so his attention was on getting them rather than charging off?
 
I would really try and sort the issue of handling/leading him before deciding not to turn him out, to be stabled 24/6/365 is not ideal. I'd book in with an experienced person who is good at resolving problems like this - for example Richard Maxwell. Its got to be worth a few hundred quid or however much it would cost to be able to turn your horse out.
 
I have been people like richard maxwel etc and it didnt work. The horse gets so pent up that the thought of feed or treats would not even enter his head. I have spent hundreds on trying to sort him, and unfortuanately it just comes down to the fact that he is stonger than me. Please please any help!! Thanks so much for your replies
 
I know of somebody once who turned the horses out witht the headcollars still on and a long ropes threaded through headcollar but not tied on. so when the horses where turned out, it they did pull away the handler just had to jump back out of the way and let go of the rope. this would come away from the headcoller as not tied on.
please think of your safety and always wear a hat and gloves when you turn out. (you probaly know that already!)
 
Thankyou blossom01, I always wear gloves as he has several times broken my fingers and ripped my hands apart. It really is a mental issue with this horse. He is the nicest horse to lead to the field regardless of horses running around etc but the minute he knows he is in his paddock that is it. On the yard he would go anywhere even when hes untied himself, he stands outside that tackroom just with a headcollar on well im tacking up but turning out is deffinately a different issue. I think the problem has got better as he has got older but when I have a few problem days with him they are more dangerous as he is a lot bolder as hes got older, meaning more confident. Thanks again for your replies and interest
 
It sounds like a nightmare for you.

Do you ride this horse?

If so, how do you manage riding him? What's different about it from the way you handle him in the field?
 
Don't think being stabled all the time would be a good idea. All horses are stronger than their owners, even little shetland ponies, if they get their heads down and pull. So in a way it is a confidence trick that we can handle them.

I do have sympathy for you, a screaming dervish of a horse is no fun, but this really DOES come down to simple manners. He is being a bully.
If Richard Maxwell didn't help, have you thought about an Intelligent Horseman ship person, the Monty Roberts/Kelly Marks people.

What would happen if you couldn't handle him, if you were ill, or someone had to manage in an emergency.

I suppose if you had an arrangement that he had a corral that he could go into during the day, that might work, but unless there is a medical reason don't you think that stabling 24 hours is going to send him up the wall - and all over you as well?
 
mine used to do a similar thing when i kept him at my work and i ended up keeping him in most of the winter. if yours is anything like mine then you don't have time to unclip a leadrope any easier than taking the headcollar off. i think the pen sounds like it is doing more harm than good now. i used to look after a pony who would run through whatever was in her path to get out if she was in a particularly bad mood but i always assumed it was just a lack of respect. To be honest i think if i took my horse back to where i worked and tried to turn him out he would pull away but at home he doesn't do it and he's led with his pony companion down a long lane to the field. is it possible to change any part of how and where you turn your horse out? if not kelly marks is doing a tour this autumn and it might be worth trying that kind of thing, i don't particularly agree with intelligent horsemanship and all the other similar things but it could be worth a try for your own and your horses safety
 
Sounds like you have tried a lot of sensible things with no improvement.

Just on the off chance: have you every tried him out 24/7 only coming in to be ridden to see if that maybe gets him more relaxed about being out? Depends on yard setup but is there any chance you could arrange to safely let him walk himself to the field?

Good luck!
 
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I know of somebody once who turned the horses out witht the headcollars still on and a long ropes threaded through headcollar but not tied on. so when the horses where turned out, it they did pull away the handler just had to jump back out of the way and let go of the rope. this would come away from the headcoller as not tied on.
please think of your safety and always wear a hat and gloves when you turn out. (you probaly know that already!)

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i did that too but the only trouble is if the horse runs straight forwards and kicks back you're in big trouble. does your horse actually like being out? mine really didn't enjoy it at my work cos there was too much going on around him
 
What about keeping him out 24/7? It sounds as though he cant wait to be "free" in a sense, and then when he gets told off for trying to be "free" he gets anxious as he does not know what to do?

Otherwise I would try riding him in the field if you could to get him to relax?

What is he like to catch?
 
My horse is a nightmare to lead/turnout. It got to the point where he kicked me in the chest.

I tried several things and these helped me...

1. the workload was improtant, the more work he does the better he gets. I even used to ride before turning him out.

2. Ground work, simple things like mutual grooming getting him to trust me more. Plenty of things in the field. I give my horse a good rub on the head before I take his headcolar off, then groom him again after, he normally sticks around for this and I am the one to leave, not him

3. moved paddocks, where I had to lead him was a massive problem, the ground was uneven the pathway was narrow, it just freaked him out, so I moved to a paddock closer to the yard

A couple of other things I could think of for your case would be...

Exercise him in his field. Turn him out, leave him for a while then go tack him up and ride.

Turn out with another horse ( a sensible one)

turn him out 24/7, but go and spend time with him in his field (like sitting and reading a book)

I dont know if any of this would help you but it is a few more ideas.
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i wouldnt bring him in 24/7 i dont think horses should be kept in 24/7 unless for box rest etc

agree with what others have said, seems like he's desperate to get out so keep him out 24/7 and see how he gets on, if you kept him in 24/7 do u not think it would just make things worse if u ever were turning him out again?? he might just go nuts lol if ya kno what i mean??
 
Firstly, poor you! Sounds like you are having a nightmare.

I don't know what your yard is like but a friend of mine had a horse who was very difficult to turn out (but for different reasons to yours) but she built a pathway from his stable to his field so that she could just open the stable door and let him trundle out by himself - he was fine to bring in, it was just the turning out that was the problem.

At my current yard, there is also a stable built into one of the fields with a smaller corral around the stable. The gates are left open all the time and the horse currently in there can wonder in and out as they please - I appreciate this might not help in that after you've ridden you still have to get through the field to the stable before you can put him in but if that's a viable option maybe that's something to consider.

Whatever you decide, good luck with him anyway and I hope you find a solution that works for you both
 
just a thought but have you tried hand grazing him in a different field then when he is eating unclip the road and stay with him for a while.

From what you have said the problem starts at the gate not in leading him to the field therefore maybe hand grazing him in a different field then progressing to his own field might help. What happens if you turn him out on his own, my thinking is is he trying to get to his friends?

I do think it is manners but you need your horse to want to be with you, maybe working in the ménage with him loose so he starts the follow you around etc then maybe using treats with a certain voice command hopefully passing this on to the gate issue so when you get there he comes to you like he would in the ménage and doesn’t want to run off to his mates.

If it is your field etc maybe you could lunge him in the field so that he doesn’t always associate the field with grazing.

Not sure if any of these would work but might help you think of other things because you know your yard and horse better than you can explain in text.
 
I think keeping him stabled 24/7 will cause more problems for you in the long run. I too think horses should only be kept in like this for box rest. I think there are some good suggestions above and i think keeping him out 24/7 may be worth a try. I really hope you can sort this out. All the best.
 
I know this depends on your setup, where your field is, what other horses are around etc. but could you just herd him down to the field, leaving the gate open so he just goes in?

I know it's not teaching him any manners but at least he's getting out with you in one piece.

You have my sympathies, that sort of behaviour would do my head in!!
 
When I turn my horse out I use a head piece (no browband) from an old bridle with a bit. When i get him through the gate I turn him around to face me, and give him a treat and then when hes standing still just undo the buckle with one hand (i have it so its just on the catch not all done up etc) it just falls out of his mouth, he then gallops off. I had to do it this way as he wouldn't respect a headcollar and leadrope, the chiffney just caught him in the mouth trying to take it off. Its the only thing that works - hes 18hh as well and by undoing it at the side you still have control with the bit until it falls out of the mouth and by that time they are free and off into the
distance!!
 
I have to agree with Booboo's, with the 24/7 turnout.
I think he is so eager to get out, he is forgetting his manners, but then if his turnout is limited, he can hardly be blamed for a bit of excitability!
I would only be bringing him out of the field for excerising, and feeding if there are others in the field, if nt the feed would go out too.
I would be doing some work with him from the ground also, just to reinforce his bounderies!
 
Just a suggestion, but could you not just lead him by his headcollar and have someone walk ahead of you to open the gate, when your say 5 yards away and then you just let him go into the field?? I know it doesn't solve the running off but it may be less dangerous?
 
I have had a great response to my post and would like to firstly thank you all for your time in replying. Unfortunately my horse will not stay out past 3 in the afternoon and goes nuts if you were to leave him, hence him causing himself harm in the field and being on boxrest. I cannot even get a headcollar off of him, this is an impossibility. He used to do it walking down to the field and I cured it by using pressure halters chifneys etc but the pen worked then to give me chance to get the halters off. I would be interested to hear peoples replys now I have given you this extra information. I have no way of letting him take himself to the field, it is impossible. ANother thing I meant to mention is that I cant hand graze him either as he will be quiet as quiet and then all of a sudden he would be gone!!!!
 
I used to keep my mare at a yard with no turnout and she was much the same as you describe on the rare occasions she got out. It took two of us to lead her to the field and she'd be rearing and trying to box you as you tried to remove the headcollar/bridle (we tried both).

Eventually she got so bad we changed tactics - we'd shut all the gates on the yard except the one to her field, open her door and let her go. It was the only way to get her to the field without being flattened. Far from ideal and she'd be bucking and broncing all the way across the concrete yard but rather that than me get kicked in the head.
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The solution? I moved her to a yard with 24/7 turnout over the summer and daytime turnout in the winter. Once she was living out she was much more chilled out in general and then the groundwork began to teach her to respect my space. By this point she was firmly convinced that she was the boss of me and I had to pretty harsh on her to get her to back off but we got there eventually.

My mare is unrecognisable from the one that I couldn't lead to the field two years ago. She still likes a good buck and a fart in the morning so I give her a treat to make her stand for a second before I let her go but other than that she rarely hoons about and doesn't often come in with injuries any more either.

IMO your solution is a fairly simple one - he needs much much more turnout and then, once he's let off steam and feeling more relaxed about life in general, he needs reminding of his manners. I'd suggest trying 24/7 turnout and sticking with it, at least for a few months to ensure he has enough time to settle into it.

ETA Sorry I cross posted.

Possible solutions to your other problem off the top of my head....

- turnout with a herd who live out so no coming and going of other horses?
- bring him in for a feed in the evening then put him back out again? (with company)
 
Also meant to mention that he will do all pen work, join up etc and is the best mannered horse on the ground in the yard and at a show, it is really like he has a personality disorder, like a different horse almost once he gets to the field!!
 
maybe he injures himself in the field through excitement of getting out?? once her was out he might settle and calm down??

ur in a right tricky situation
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Is he turned out on his own or has he got company in the same field with him?

Don't know your set up but if he is out on his own, that might be the reason he wants to come in? Is 3 o'clock when other horses on the yard are brought in. if he had a companion out 24/7 with him he might be happy to stay out.
 
Not much to add to the above, but I think your horse is luckly to have someone so patient to look after them!

If it was me I would also try giving him 24/7 turnout - even if it meant moving yards for a bit to find a really suitable field .... and for the first few days I would try catching him, then grooming/feeding/whatever before releasing as he sounds quite bright and as if you always have to be one step ahead -and a horse that is bad to catch is as annoying as one who is bad to release!

Also, if you try the Intelligent Horsemanship people - there is one lady who will give advice over the phone which might be worth a go.

Good luck and I realy admire your persistance. let us know what happens!
 
God what a nightmare for you. I've had a couple of similar situations but nothing like you. The second situation was a mare who was very similar but got worse and worse and wouldn't stay in the field at all.

My initial thoughts for you would be 24/7 turnout. Could you bring him in at his normal time for an hour and then turnout again, it might begin to settle him and give him the idea.

Have you tried changing yards - sometimes somthing as simple as this can break a routine.

Going back to my mare situation, she turned out to have a kissing spine and I believe she was stressed with putting her head down to graze - sounds crazy I know. I sold her to someone who rested her and then turned her out 24/7 and apparently she took to it like a duck to water. I found it hard to believe but think it was due to her back pain decreasing and just a change of circumstances.

Best of luck, whatever you do, and take care.
 
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