Keeping a stallion....

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MrsMagoo

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Ok so going on a comment made on a post of mine - is keeping stallions really that hard?? Do I really need to reconsider keeping Ron entire??

Obviously I know there are certain aspects that hinder things i.e. turnout etc but I also know a few people with stallions that are kept at 'normal' yards and out with geldings/near mares etc.

Soooo to make sure i'm doing the right thing (well grading in August dependant) can Stallion owners out there give me some advice on how I should be keeping him/turnout etc?? Should I just geld him and have done??

I wouldnt really be planning on using him to cover until he had some experience under his belt etc so years to go yet!!! And then at that stage I would prob send him to a stud who would want to use him....certainly wouldnt have the experience to do it myself.

And no im not a complete numpty and have years and experience - just not with keeping a stallion.
 
Can't help - sorry I don't have any entires over a year old!

Would also be interested in any replies though as I have a colt that I am considering - he is rather nice!

Can't believe they suddenly change temprement etc and if they have always been out with geldings - does that have to change?

Obviously fence heights is an issue and judging by 2 recent posts on here re them escaping from well fenced areas.....maybe I should think again???...:D:D
 
Well perhaps I can comment - I am a real novice re stallions.

I bought a CB stallion 18 months ago together with a mare who was i/f to him. I kept them together until near her foaling and had to separate them. He was stressed by this and would not have been a problem had he liked the next mare I had lined up for him. He won't cover her!!!

So I have had to put him on his own. He loves company and fence walks and weaves when inside. I keep him close to his favourite mares. We have double strand electric tape only but we have two fences between him and the mares. He is no trouble at all.

BUT

The yard revolves around him. For safety I have to plan how I bring in and turn out.

We have just 'cured' his weaving by installing 'talk grills' between our stables. As long as he has a mare next door he is quite happy and I have four mares to choose from.

I have a two year old Shagya colt who is just starting to get amorous. I have no trouble with him either although I have to keep him away from the other stallion. He is with two geldings and I do put one mare out with him when she is not in season. The CB mare my stallion hates is the love of my Shagya colt!!

It is all very unconventional but I find it works. I spend a lot of time 'horsewatching'.
 
I dont have a stallion of my own, but work on a full livery yard where the owner has a 3 year old dressage stallion. I dont know if it makes a difference if they are used or not, but this stallion has better manners than the majority of the other horses on the yard, and its not until you actually look and see he is entire then you realise!
My boss has post and rail fences to about 5/6foot(cant remember off hand or standing by it!!), and overhang main electric rope into the fields that stands out about a foot sort of like / off the top rail. Does that make sense??!!
We keep the mares on the other half of the paddocks, and keep him with the geldings (individual T/O) on the other side. He is stabled opposite one mare and next to another and (touching loads of wood) we dont have a problem.
I really dont see why people have such a problem with stallions, if they are handled correctly and managed in a way that prevents them from being in a postition where something could happen, then they are no more or less dangerous than a mare or gelding. x
 
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Hello there when we purchased our Stallion he had been stabled 24/7 for nearly a year had not had any turnout and only been on a horse walker as his owner was a complete novice at Stallion keeping and had lost her nerve and started to let go of his rope at turnout so we had a lot of work to do when we got him which was the winter thak god.

He first last stabled and then re taught to lead properly to his field every day where at that time I had my two mares we made a horse walk to control the spinning round and that sorted him out plus he had to walk through a deep River to get to the mares he learnt to rely on my hsband to get him to the mares as he would not do the river on his own.

to cut a long story short we reabilitated him over 2 years he now has a 1 acre paddock and he has mares in there own paddocks round him and like Rollin said the whole yard is run so he can have his stallion freedom, so we turn him out first so he can check for lions etc,
then his mares and then the mares and foals we bring in and turn out in the same order everyday and it works like magic,his visitor mares actually walk past him when they arrive so he can check there status this helps him not stand all day and not eat, he knows were they are at and will then go and stand opposite there fence when he knows they are comming on, he has never been wrong he will not want to get excited about them till the optimum time and then he covers very kindly taking quiet some time, he is eve outside next to mares in season his own mares and he tells us when they are ready if he see certian ropes he knows.
you can have the most amazing life with stalion I could write a book as he has taught my husand and I so much.
he babysits his foals for mums as well as guarding them and mum when they are first born.
good luck.
 
Things to consider when standing a stallion, esp. when you don't have your own set up (if I remember correctly you're on livery?)

1. Temperament - which 'can' change once hormones kick in and they start to cover.

2. Pedigree - is it complete, is it commercial, is it needed.

3. Facilities - stabling, turn out, other people (often the biggest problem!)

4. Time and finance - it takes a LOT of money and effort to make a stallion.
 
I ride out a stallion for someone and it is difficult to keep him full to be perfectly honest. I love this horse to bits but sometimes I wish he'd be cut!

There aren't secure enough facilities around to let him out so he is stabled 24/7. I ride him for an hour once a day and compete on the weekends. He gets to go out into the arena (supervised) depending on if anyone is around or not. He is actually quite a quiet stallion. You can bring him to a show and only for the badges, people do not realise that he is full. However, we cannot run the risk of letting him out in the fields in case he got out and hurt someone/himself.

I also have a bit of trouble with a girl on the yard who is frightened of him (honestly not sure why as she claims to have stallion experience) so thats worth consideration too.

Personally, I do not like him living like this. I keep my own horses out as much as possible as turnout is really good for them (imo). THe stallion is covering too and at the moment is full or hormones so he is difficult to manage also.

Sorry I am getting rambly and no realy structure to my post. But what I am trying to say is that you must put a lot of thought into it if you are going to keep him full.
 
i used to work with a stallion (tb )
if you have no knowledge of stllions etc how to handle , how to manage covering etc and do not have the right facities
please do conserer having him casterated
i say this because the stallion i worked with owned to a woman who basicly hadnt a clue how to handle him he was a big 16.3
he life was stable , covering , it mental screwed him up
when i started to work there , i made a field up for him with post and rail fencing away from mares and insight of geldings . the first time i let him out ,have to cross oppisit his stable to the field he would swing his head ,rear and basicly act like a **** . so dangerous indeed that knowone else would handle him part from me with great caution that was .
this was because he was shut in 24/7 and only used for covering . so please sum up the advantages to the disavanges
because if you cant offer proper facities , proper handling and management of a stallion
he will be happier and more mentaly stable then being entire
it doesnt mean he cant be happy being a stallion if yes to all questions !!!
 
S_N said:
Things to consider when standing a stallion, esp. when you don't have your own set up (if I remember correctly you're on livery?)

1. Temperament - which 'can' change once hormones kick in and they start to cover.

He currently has the nicest temprement I have ever known in a horse and is soo unbelievely laid back - can do pretty much anything with him, farrier, loading, wearing halter, leading etc. I know he does know what the 'ladies' are tho, if one is standing near the fence he will certainly snort and say hello....

2. Pedigree - is it complete, is it commercial, is it needed.

The reason I want to keep him entire is to carry on his pedigree as the stallion is now dead but was very good - was actually William Funnells top SJ. I feel he was good enough he could carry this on. I am taking him to futurity in Augsut so obviously will wait and see what they say about him first :)

3. Facilities - stabling, turn out, other people (often the biggest problem!)

Stabling would be fine - good stables and big but its turnout I need to think about...YO is currently having a think. I know the groom on the yard is certainly capable of dealing with him if need be, as I said other stallions have been kept on the yard.

4. Time and finance - it takes a LOT of money and effort to make a stallion.
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See this is what I dont understand??? Why should keeping a stallion cost anymore than a regular gelding/mare?? Its not like they eat differently etc...

Thanks
 
MrsMagoo said:
See this is what I dont understand??? Why should keeping a stallion cost anymore than a regular gelding/mare?? Its not like they eat differently etc...

Thanks
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I dont find a differnece between costs however for registering with the SJ association over here you have to pay an extra €65 euro for a stallion. Not even sure why?!!!
 
Thanks for reply....I would certainly say I have experience to handle a colt/stallion and hence with my colt we are learning all the ground rules/basics now. My theory is why wait until he's a 16hh monster to install manners when he can learn them right now!!

TBH I handle him no different to what I would expect any other horse to be like....he is currently living out 24/7 with another colt and will only start coming in at evenings for winter, I am hoping YO will be able to sort a field he could go into for day time, but obviously I know it will be a pain so she would have every right to ask me to leave¬!!

I dont plan on doing any covering etc myself (deffo dont have that experience) but hoping to keep him for a few years to compete then pass to a stud to use if they wanted??
 
If it where me, I would take it as it comes! I totally enjoy competing a stallion and enjoy people looking at him :D But I only watched him cover for the first time this year and I was apalled....cant explain it - just think I wasnt supposed to see him from that angle!

Oh something I just remembered, if he starts to bite, stop him immediately! Its such a bold habit! I didnt get this guy til he was 4 and had already developed a habit of biting that I cannot get rid of. I punish him but its like he just laughs at me!
 
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MrsMagoo said:
See this is what I dont understand??? Why should keeping a stallion cost anymore than a regular gelding/mare?? Its not like they eat differently etc...

Thanks
Click to expand...

Perhaps SN meant publicising, advertising etc if you were standing him at stud? Also, if he were to stand at a stud, on livery then presumably there are handling fees for covering/collection to consider and individual turnout, I don't know, I have never kept a stallion at a stud, and the studs I have worked at only stood their own stallions.

The other stallions I have worked with, on a public yard, were racehorses, and apart from us having our wits about us when riding and handling they were treated no differently at all, exercised together, worked together, stabled side by side or beside mares, travelled together. Mind, they were not covering at the time so most of them didn't actually know what their bits were for.

I do agree, my stallion doesn't cost me more than any other horse on the place, feed, trimming etc is the same, but then I am not at livery. Keeping him just requires a little extra thought and some kind of routine. He comes into the barn last, but goes out first etc. He lives out 24/7 in his own paddock with his little tin house, 12' across a walkway from mares paddocks, and he is fine.
 
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MrsMagoo said:
See this is what I dont understand??? Why should keeping a stallion cost anymore than a regular gelding/mare?? Its not like they eat differently etc...

Thanks
Click to expand...

The actual quote was 'making a stallion' and that is a lot different to keeping a stallion.

Keepwise, no they don't differ too much from others but it's the restrictions on him that cost the money. You need better, stronger, larger stabling and paddocks than you would with a gelding. You need better security and signage, don't want anyone hurt by mistake (or on purpose either come to that! :D) Whereas it might be one thing for a stranger walking into a strange horse's box, this could have disastrous effects if they walked unknowingly into a stallion) Safety for all has to be paramount even with the best behaved stallions. I don't know if insurance wouldn't be more either.

As to making a stallion, think of all the gradings, registration, training for a dummy if needbe, competing, publicizing, printing costs added on top of normal keep costs. It's not something to be taken lightly, believe me.

When I had Tiger here that year, it restricted many things even though he is an absolute pet to handle at all times; you had to work your day around him too as others have mentioned. We had to alter a box for him, add extra fencing, lose a paddock because we couldn't risk putting mares beside his paddock as OH refused to alter his perfect post and rail fencing for just 6 months and various other things which would not have been needed if he had been a gelding. It all costs more than normal.

Just look at JG's thread about her colt jumping into a stable to get at a mare or ER's about Tam dismantling his fence to get back in with Storm. Both of these owners are incredibly experienced and had taken the greatest care but they were both outfoxed these times by young colts. Usually you take the toughest precautions you think you'll need and then need to treble them if you're thinking of having a stallion on anything less than a purpose made yard. Could you provide that?
 
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MrsMagoo said:
See this is what I dont understand??? Why should keeping a stallion cost anymore than a regular gelding/mare?? Its not like they eat differently etc...

Thanks
Click to expand...

You misread/misunderstand my previous post - I didn't say keep, I said MAKE! BIG difference!

You have to consider the cost of production, which should include professional preparation and presentation at a grading, plus grading costs and associated veterinary costs (possibly with more than one society too). Competition registrations (BSJA (or whatever it is now), BD, BE, etc...) and actual competing costs. Stallion parade entries, advertising and marketing (photography, magazine/online advertising, website construction and up keep - nothing worse than an out of date website!) The possibility of supporting your stallion by either breeding your own mares to him or buying stock by him to produce in competition, as nothing speaks louder than results of progeny, never mind the stallion's own results! And of course breeding stallions require EVA, CEM testing and jabs.

Personally, I don't think a stallion should be kept entire if not used for breeding.

ETA - also the costs involved with training him for collection and semen storage!
 
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But that would all be like 3-4yrs+ down the line would it not??? When would yours begin covering??

As I said I have no intention of actually doing the breeding myself (im not a stud and only own him now) but would like to keep/compete him for his first part of life if temprement/finances allow....
 
Im relieved to see that you say you handle him like you would with any mare or gelding. I believe a stallion should be treated no different, within reason of course. My stallions are treated like any other on the yard, stabled between and around mares, hack out with mares, travel with mares and are turned out within eyesight of the mares. Biting should be nipped in the bud as soon as it starts because if left it can escalate into a nasty habit which may not be meant in a nasty way but it just becomes habit. People will disagree with me but its worked for me...my boys were turned out with a dominant mare as a 2yo to teach them manners, they were a bit battered and bruised (well booted up etc) butunmarked and both are like complete gentlemen to cover mares, it has definately made a difference. I see too many stallions who are locked away from mares and then their owners/handlers wonder why they are like raving lunatics when they come to cover mares. It is of utmost importance that they have the temperament to be kept entire, and if any of my boys had proved to have a dangerous temperament then they would have had 2 bricks regardless of how good their breeding was and how much of a stallion prospect they were-if they dont have the temperament to be a stallion they will always make a very good gelding!
As for costs, the only ways they are more expensive to keep is because obviously they have to come in at night-i would never trust keeping them out 24/7 no matter how well mannered they are and my boys are competition stallions so dont want any risks of them trying to escape in the middle of the night and injuring themselves. Plus theres the grading costs and if they arent graded then show jumping in particular is extremely expensive to register them if you go down the affiliated route-BSJA or BS as they are now called require them to be graded and to undergo a ridden jumping assessment for them to compete unless you pay £500 a year for 4 and 5yo and £1000 per year for 6yo and over. Stallions have more pressure to get a good competition record as mare owners prefer to use proven stallions as opposed to older stallions who havent done anything so theres the expense of getting a good competition record under their belt and then standing at stud you have the yearly costs of swabs, buying equipment to offer AI services as opposed to natural coverings and insurance is also more expensive for stallions-if standing at stud and you want to cover them for covering mares then loss of use cover is compulsory (is with NFU who im with anyway).
If stallions are brought up properly in the correct way and manner then i dont see what the problem is, too many people see the word stallion and jump a mile and complain about them but its the ones who bring them up wrong that give stallions a bad name. As S_N has also already said, full+respected parentage history is important aswel and i always research the breeding before buying a stallion because if they had breeding that wasnt very spectacular or not very well known/respected then this would put me off as i want proven competition parentage to help promote the stallion im buying.
As for turnout, as long as there is safe and secure fencing i dont see a problem. 1 of my boys never used to like being turned out and used to jump the 5 bar gate which had 4ft high electric fence which stood 5ft away from the gate and we kept finding him back in his stable munching on his hay-strange boy lol but as hes gotten older he likes his turnout now and is turned out in a big roundpen in the field as its on a livery yard (a friend currently has him to compete). The 3yo colt i have at home is turned out with post and rail fencing and hedge on 2 sides standing about 4ft high (P+R) with top strand of electric fencing connected to the mains.
Hope this helps!
 
Maesfen is right, having the right set up is expensive to start with. My stallion paddock cost me thousands to fence adequately. I don't stand him to public stud so I am spared advertising costs etc but I had to pay for his license so that progeny for other breeds can be registered, plus DNA testing etc.

Safety is a huge thing, I am always having to think ahead, and because
I have Boarders too I have to make them very aware that certain rules are there for their safety. He's a very sweet natured chap but he is still a stallion so I expect the unexpected at all times.
 
The One Main thing I try and impress on people Handling My Boys Is the huge responsibility in owning and handling an entire. For instance If you were to fall off a Stallion the repercussions could be awful, if he should decide to cover a mare that someone is sat on or not as the case may be, no matter how well behaved he is, his primary thought is to reproduce.
 
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