keeping an un-neutered bitch

MotherOfChickens

MotherOfChickens

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I usually stick to boys when it comes to dogs and horses-I did have a little bitch years ago and she was neutered as she was a rescue. I am considering taking on an as yet, un-neutered 3yo bitch (no intention of breeding) and would like to know the health pros and cons of neutering and not neutering please.
 
Here are a long list of links for you ..very informative...pros and cons ..

http://www.schnauzer-forum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=9628

I've had ten females in my life,and only two males..most of the females were spayed but the males were entire.
I have spayed my latest schnauzer female after her first season,simply because she lives with an intact male..otherwise I would have preferred to leave her to have at least a second season .
My large breed dogs,a rottie and then a dogue de Bordeaux were both spayed around three..so fully developed and less risk for incontinence and bone cancers etc.
My two standard poodles were spayed late...one at six and the other at eight..due to health issues..one was auto immune insufficient..the latter was seizure prone so we didn't want to spay at all,but her seasons wer becoming erratic and overlong.(pyo risk).
In an all female household I was fine with having entire females but would not want to risk this with an intact male in the house.
It was restrictive having a female in season,not being able to let her off lead etc..and I am so pleased to have my latest girl free of worry.However she is tending to gain weight so this is a downside and we are carefully monitoring her diet and increasing excercise to try to keep her slim.

For me the biggest worry in having an intact female is the risk of pyometriosis
Every time the cervix opens ,bacteria will enter the uterus..so often two months after a season you run the risk of a uterus infection...this can be fatal within 24 hrs if not picked up on. .symptoms are subtle..increased drinking, a temp and sometimes listless.
Also mammary tumors are very common here in Italy where many still don't spay their females.
 
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I have kept females entire, but the majority have been spayed later in life. I lost a much loved bitch a few years ago at 12 years of age from pyometra, I just had never got round to having her spayed. My current 2 aged 8 and 4 are both spayed, and I would never again keep a bitch into old age without spaying. I have never had problems with them putting on weight after spaying, and whereas one did become slightly urinary incontinent in old age , so did another entire bitch so cant really put it down to spaying.
 
My friends 12yr old boxer X is currently dying from mammory tumours which have spread to her spleen and now showing n her lungs. Also had a recent pyometra scare :(. Not long till she gets a final helping hand. I would never have a bitch but am all for it when the time is right
 
We never used to have them spayed and if you don't mind bloody carpets twice a year their coats and so on are nicer if left whole, IMO. We have ours spayed for purely selfish reasons, if they were kenneled we would probably leave them intact, the working terriers were never done.
 
Always always spay bitches. Many of them will get and die from (with or without surgery) pyometra. Get her spayed once she's yours if you get her- they bounce back quickly/
 
We lost our springer at 8 to a mammary tumour that metastasized. She was spayed at 7, and late/no spaying is associated with a substantially higher risk of this type of cancer occurring.
 
thanks all-I will do some reading up. I quite fancied a setter bitch next time I get a setter and I'd be reluctant to spay given the coat issue. (this isn't a setter). I've always said if I got another male setter, I wouldn't neuter.

Carpets not a problem, we don't have any ;) given that 12 years is pretty old physiologically speaking I am not sure that risk of a non-neutered problem at that age puts me off alone (last dog was 12 when PTS, current dog will be twelve the way he's going-both neutered males, different breeds. The spayed bitch I lost in an RTA, much to my shame).

The last bitch I had, she'd have been neutered in the early 90s, she still have some mammary tissue and still spotted a bit. Is leaving some mammary tissue not done anymore? I will chat with some vets as well btw
 
I find it very ahrd to believe that people avoid an operation that takes away the 25% risk of pyometra in case the coat is a differnet texture . Dogs die regularly from pyometra, it costs more to operate when they are sick with it and they are older dogs who dont cope as well with a GA. Mammary tissue is not removed at spay- I think you do need to chat to your vets who will tell you that leaving a bitch entire is an opening to health problems that are so so avoidable - I cannot emphasis how silly it is NOT to spay a bitch. Males are different - the health benefits are 50:50 neuter/un neutered so I'm all for personal choice there.
 
SusieT said:
I find it very ahrd to believe that people avoid an operation that takes away the 25% risk of pyometra in case the coat is a differnet texture . Dogs die regularly from pyometra, it costs more to operate when they are sick with it and they are older dogs who dont cope as well with a GA. Mammary tissue is not removed at spay- I think you do need to chat to your vets who will tell you that leaving a bitch entire is an opening to health problems that are so so avoidable - I cannot emphasis how silly it is NOT to spay a bitch. Males are different - the health benefits are 50:50 neuter/un neutered so I'm all for personal choice there.
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well this is why I am asking and when the vets are open, I'll ask them-I also work with a lot of vets although they tend to be LA. My ex (a SA surgeon) was surprised that my old bitch still had mammary tissue but it was a long time ago so maybe I am not remembering correctly.
 
I have never heard of the coat issue before. All three of mine are bitches and all 3 are spayed. Tess (mini schnauzer) was done after her first season. She's clipped and has a 'normal' (as far as I'm aware!) schnauzer coat. Jess was spayed before we got her, she's lab X rottie X possible collie and get coat is lovely. Soft and seriously shiny. Rua was spayed at the age of around 18 months, not long after I got her. She came into season shortly after she came home so had to wait. She has what I would call a normal Labrador coat.

Having watched the absolute heartbreak of people who have lost bitches at a young age due to pyo, it's a no brainer for me.
 
GinaB its my understanding its more prevalent in setters and spaniels. I took a lot of advice on it before getting one and its the main reason I didnt get a bitch-because I would want to spay due to the risk of pyo and that it would knacker their coat. Most vets I spoke to agreed it would in bitches but there was a better chance it wouldn't in a dog. All the breeders I asked (setters and spaniels) told me it would in either sex. I got a dog, had to have him neutered due to a retained testicle and it did change his coat. All vets I spoke to afterwards told me that yes, it would have done. Vets can be as biased as the next person, I will talk to as many as I can, I will talk to dog owners, I'll review all the references helpfully given on this thread and I will make a decision. I've not even met her yet!

I also understand a coat is secondary issue to other health problems. I wouldn't not neuter a dog solely on basis of coat. However, if you do want a breed such as an Irish Setter, coat does come into it as its part of the appearance of the breed you are attracted to. There are lots of dogs I don't care for the look of, each to their own. TBH after 20 years of shaggy dogs, a short hair will be a weird relief!
 
Interesting that it changes their coats! And the two types it happens in. I know two spaniels - one a springer bitch that is in-neutered and one show breed cocker spaniel that is. However, they clip her coat (against groomer advice) and it is quite odd! It's very soft and fluffy, has no waterproofing qualities at all.
 
GinaB said:
Interesting that it changes their coats! And the two types it happens in. I know two spaniels - one a springer bitch that is in-neutered and one show breed cocker spaniel that is. However, they clip her coat (against groomer advice) and it is quite odd! It's very soft and fluffy, has no waterproofing qualities at all.
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yes, it goes very cotton-woolly and matts at the drop of a hat. It's a lot of extra work and never looks as good again.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
I usually stick to boys when it comes to dogs and horses-I did have a little bitch years ago and she was neutered as she was a rescue. I am considering taking on an as yet, un-neutered 3yo bitch (no intention of breeding) and would like to know the health pros and cons of neutering and not neutering please.
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We have northern inuit - and were going to keep her un neutered to breed but then , I thought no I don't have time for 9 puppies and don't want to be left caring for them so we/I nutted her. Mammary tumours is one thing we don't want. There are enough dogs in the world to breed more same with kids.
 
HGA-12 said:
We have northern inuit - and were going to keep her un neutered to breed but then , I thought no I don't have time for 9 puppies and don't want to be left caring for them so we/I nutted her. Mammary tumours is one thing we don't want. There are enough dogs in the world to breed more same with kids.
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she's never bred, she won't ever be bred from-puppies, unwanted or otherwise are not the issue. And what do kids have to do with it?
 
Our male Newf is unneutered mainly to preserve his coat so I completely understand that it's a motivation. But we deliberately got a boy so we didn't have to neuter, if we had got a girl we would have done regardless of the effect.
 
How strange to see this thread tonight!?

I had my re home collie bitch of 3 months (2yr old) spayed on Thursday. She is a beautiful Blue Merle whose always complimented whenever she leaves the house so the temptation to let her have pups has been great. But ultimately I knew I couldn't cope with maybe 9 of her as georgeou though she is, there wouldn't be any benefit for us and the later health implications made the decision for us tbh.

I rang around all the local vets looking for one that would do an overectamy which leaves the euterous intact as I'd fought for one for my Dobe girl 7 years earlier and found to my delight and surprise that the vet I'd convinced to do it then, now does it as a matter of course!

The draw back is we can't exercise her off lead for 2 weeks and she's feeling a bit strange but this is only temporary and although I've always left my boys entire, I've yet to have a bitch so.
 
SusieT said:
Elsbells out of interst what made you want an ovaiectomy over the full job?
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I guess the main reason was the possible incontinence problems in the fully spayed bitch that I'd seen over the years and I was looking for something better so I did my research. After reading as much as I could and looking at all the pros and cons it made a lot of good sense. Why remove it all when there's no need? In fact its a positive not to. So I decided to let my Dobe bitch have at least 2 cycles, then just have the ovaries removed.

My vet then eventually said, "right I'll do as you ask, but I will check the euterous. If it looks nice, healthy and pink, I will leave it. If it doesn't I will remove it."
I agreed of course and the op went ahead.

My Dobe never suffered with any problems and was a good healthy girl till the day she died from her unknown DCM out on a run in the sun with her dad at the age of 10.
 
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It's common practice in Europe to remove only the ovaries,especially in a young dog whose uterus is healthy..my schnauzer had this and recovery was the fastest I've seen in all my girls...by day two she was" back to normal" and the main issue was keeping her quiet.
The dogs scar is smaller,pain factor less,recovery faster..
The vets say the uterus atrophies without its hormones,so no risk of pyo.

http://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvet...s-ovariohysterectomy-veterinary-medicine-6658

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9404289
 
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So I wonder why vasectomies in dogs aren't on offer more-I realise that it won't change other male behaviours but then, it could be done later on if needs be. This would be more desirable in large breed dogs than castration surely given the known effects of early castration.
 
We spayed our little bitch. It was a no brainer really. We didn't want to breed and I was concerned about health risks later on in her life. Her coat hasn't changed, but maybe in her breed (bichon) they tend not to, I don't know.
 
MotherOfChickens said:
So I wonder why vasectomies in dogs aren't on offer more-I realise that it won't change other male behaviours but then, it could be done later on if needs be. This would be more desirable in large breed dogs than castration surely given the known effects of early castration.
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I would imagine as castration is such a quick and very (usually) straight forward surgery? Whereas with a vasectomy you're delving in more.

Maybe 😄
 
GinaB said:
I would imagine as castration is such a quick and very (usually) straight forward surgery? Whereas with a vasectomy you're delving in more.

Maybe ��
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well, husband says he knows what he'd prefer ;)

I once assisted when a vet I worked for had to vasectomise a colony of marmosets-now that was fiddly.
 
My two pups (jack Russell's) have just had their first season. I would like to now get them spayed but not sure how long I should wait and what are peoples opinions on keyhole spaying?
 
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