Keeping fatties out 24/7?

debsey1

debsey1

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My cob is prone to weight gain during spring/summer months (like most are) and usually I would turn him out at night and bring him in during the day on soaked hay. He doesn't lose weight this way but doesn't put any more on this is coupled with copious amounts of exercise.

This year I have moved yards where the hacking out is hilly, therefore, his exercise regime has stepped up a level and he is looking good but as I am thinking now is the time to make the switch to night time turnout my YM has suggested if my cob were hers she would leave him out 24/7 as after a few days he would 'self regulate'. I can see the logic in this but I am not too sure. She says that if I keep the exercise up he will be okay and by restricting his grazing they will only gorge once turned out. Again, I can see the logic. What do you think of this advice?
 
I have a good doer too, I do keep out 24/7 in summer. She has the odd day in with soaked hay when it is really hot though as she burns easily!

But whilst she out she is muzzled. I managed to get away with muzzle during the day and no muzzle at night and being worked daily. That worked for us. My friends Horse however is muzzled pretty much 24/7 as she gets huge, she also colics quite easily as she stuffs her face.
 
Personally... I think you know your horse best and you have managed his weight well before so continue as you see fit. There are always going to be people who think their way is best... but they don't know the horse and they don't have to foot the vet bill if it doesn't work out...

Last year was a casing point. At my old yard the horses were turned out onto knee high lush grazing last april and those that didn't get lami within the first few days, balooned in size and continued to do so - the owners struggled all summer long to get their weight under control. Mine was turned out for just 4 hours a day and then for much longer on a lami-padock and he stayed a pretty good weight most of the summer...

In my experience horses will not self regulate - they will scoff their faces til they are full to bursting and their waistline just continues to get bigger and bigger. With this you risk colic, laminitis and a whole heap of other problems. I do however believe that if you restrict their intake for long enough they get used to eating that reduced amount.

I prefer to prevent fatness rather than try to cure it. And having got my boy down to a nice trim weight over winter I am continuing to keep it that way with out at night, in during the day, muzzle on for odd nights and increased exercise. So far so good. I have said that if the grass burns off he may be able to go out 24/7, but not during the growing season, so basically not for another month or so and even then, he will have his muzzle on some of the time I expect...
 
CBFan said:
In my experience horses will not self regulate - they will scoff their faces til they are full to bursting and their waistline just continues to get bigger and bigger.
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Yep, agree with this!

My cob lives out 24/7 but spends his time either in restricted paddock, or really restricted paddock! Occasionally he will have his muzzle on, but he hates it and it stresses him out so I try only use it if I have to.
 
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If horses (or pets in general - people for that matter) self regulated we wouldn't see the level of obesity that we do unfortunately.

I'm all for 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' - but I also think there is evidence that suggests they just eat more if on grazing for only part of the time. 24/7 muzzle would be my preference so they are moving about all the time (and saving on time/ bedding for me) - but I know lots of people don't get on with muzzles - all personal preference.
 
The three cobs on our yard are out 24/7 , they are strip grazed and exercised appropriately there field will last them all summer this way, they will be given a small amount everyday in the evenings when the sugars are less.

My cob is broken and is on a rehab programme, and I walk him in hand six days a week, today we went for an hour and a half, and I seem to be keeping his weight ok.

The other two are looking good also.
 
Depends on the horse really - my lad eats as if there will be no food available tomorrow! I turned my Welsh D out 24/7 one year on a very bare paddock. His weight did creep up despite hilly hacking 6 days a week. I then went on holiday for 1 week and left him out 24/7 still so it was easier for my horse minder.
When I came back, the extra weight, out 24/7 and lack of exercise in only one week had made him not quite right on his feet and after I had been back only 2 days I knew he had laminitis.
He had not had laminitis before but then in previous years I had always stabled him for the night even in the summer.
For my lad, keeping him stabled on soaked hay at night all year round regulates the amount of grass he eats, keeps his weight down and has so far (touch wood) meant he has not had a repeat of laminitis.
They are all different, but I do feel that stabling horses for a period of time that are overweight so food can be monitored is no bad thing...even in summer.
 
It really is a case of knowing your own horse - which is why it's so difficult. My greedy good doer only got lami once (in mid-winter through over rich haylage and frozen grass).

I tried not to panic. That was three years ago. She lives out 24/7 but she and the other fattie come in in summer each day for about 5 hours (usually 10am - 3pm ish). While in the yard - where they can move in and out of the big communal box as they wish - I cut them long stalks of cow parsley from our brook, which they adore and keeps the brook tidy! but they don't get any hay.

We have 3 on 4.5 acres. Last year we strip grazed, but it made such a mess of the grazing that this year I'm going to do 3-4 small paddocks and move them round. At present, due to lack of grass, the fatties are looking very trim and the TB skinny, so hopefully off to a good start.

Don't know if any of this is any help, but so far its working here! Good luck.
 
CBFan said:
Personally... I think you know your horse best and you have managed his weight well before so continue as you see fit. There are always going to be people who think their way is best... but they don't know the horse and they don't have to foot the vet bill if it doesn't work out...

Last year was a casing point. At my old yard the horses were turned out onto knee high lush grazing last april and those that didn't get lami within the first few days, balooned in size and continued to do so - the owners struggled all summer long to get their weight under control. Mine was turned out for just 4 hours a day and then for much longer on a lami-padock and he stayed a pretty good weight most of the summer...

In my experience horses will not self regulate - they will scoff their faces til they are full to bursting and their waistline just continues to get bigger and bigger. With this you risk colic, laminitis and a whole heap of other problems. I do however believe that if you restrict their intake for long enough they get used to eating that reduced amount.

I prefer to prevent fatness rather than try to cure it. And having got my boy down to a nice trim weight over winter I am continuing to keep it that way with out at night, in during the day, muzzle on for odd nights and increased exercise. So far so good. I have said that if the grass burns off he may be able to go out 24/7, but not during the growing season, so basically not for another month or so and even then, he will have his muzzle on some of the time I expect...
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Agree with all of this. It's really peeing me off having to stable my two as I hate stabling, but it's working well for their weight and lami prevention. Everyone else has gone out 24/7, but with muzzles suddenly on 24/7 (from nothing during the day and stabled at night). Aside from a mare who's been underfed most of the winter, mine are the only trim ones!!!
I've had hints that I should just leave them out, but as another poster says, these 'experts' aren't the one footing the vet bill and they aren't the ones feeling the lower leg morning and night (and so don't appreciate just how little it takes to make the fetlocks puffy - a warning sign). They just see a bouncy exmoor, full of beans. If he becomes lethargic, I know I've screwed up.
 
I have never heard of horses self-regulating!!!
muzzles or restricted area of grazing are the best options, if its not a massive amount of land and like you said lots of exercise, he could be ok, just play it by ear
 
I don't think they self-regulate either, I think cobs will keep eating well beyond a sensible point. My horse had been out 24/7 when I bought her so I tried to continue her routine. I was also told she would self-regulate her grazing but I tried for over a month and she just got bigger and bigger.

I agree they gorge if they are kept in with no food for a number of hours and then turned out, but if they are given a sensible ration of soaked hay while standing in my experience this stops the gorging when put out on grass.

I wouldn't take the risk if I were you, especially not at this time of year.
 
Mine's out 24/7 in the summer but in a pen within the main field where his friends are. I regulate the size of the pen depending on grass growth and his weight, he doesn't seem to mind at all.
Have tried a muzzle, but he hated it with a passion!
 
Fransurrey said:
I've had hints that I should just leave them out, but as another poster says, these 'experts' aren't the one footing the vet bill and they aren't the ones feeling the lower leg morning and night (and so don't appreciate just how little it takes to make the fetlocks puffy - a warning sign).
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To be fair that is a little harsh. 'These experts' may actually know what they are talking about - and it works for theirs, but perhaps not yours, as someone rightly said. I would say the same (except for the self regulating thing - I know that isn't a fact, at least, with mine) so I too fall into the 'these experts' slurry pit.

Same old mantra, each horse is an individual and should be treated as such, and those that know a horse well are best placed to decide on the management.

I keep all my horses out, all the time. QH's (and Pasos) are like natives, get fat on proverbial fresh air. My paddocks are sparse and I purposely keep them like that, I prefer to feed hay, if/when I have to.

I dislike strip grazing and much prefer the idea of a track system, but that is frequently not an option on many yards I appreciate that. I hate muzzles with a vengeance, and won't use them on any horse of mine - but again, that is just a personal thing, if it works for your horse I would not expect you to give a toot for my opinion.
 
Enfys said:
....... that is just a personal thing, if it works for your horse I would not expect you to give a toot for my opinion.
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....anymore than I would blindly follow the advice of others if it did not suit my horse. :)

It is quite impossible to prescribe precisely xyz for dear old 'Freddy' if you don't know him or any of his history from the next horse :)
 
Enfys... you are increadibly lucky having your own land... you are fortunate in that you can keep your land bare but unfortunately many of us are at the mercy of land owners who like long lush green pastures - restricting turnout in winter to achieve this and as a result force horse owners to take such steps as restricting turnout, strip grazing and muzzling to protect their horses in the spring and summer months. I hate muzzling too but I'd rather that than my horse suffering weeks of pain through laminitis. Mine is 17.2hh and suffered with low grade lami about this time last year (after being turned out on afforementioned grazing, against my better judgement) fortunately it resolved in a matter of days but I will NEVER put him at risk of that again... It isn't just an illness of the little fat native or rotund cob, and it's becoming more and more common...
 
CBFan said:
Enfys... you are increadibly lucky having your own land... you are fortunate in that you can keep your land bare but unfortunately many of us are at the mercy of land owners who like long lush green pastures - restricting turnout in winter to achieve this and as a result force horse owners to take such steps as restricting turnout, strip grazing and muzzling to protect their horses in the spring and summer months. I hate muzzling too but I'd rather that than my horse suffering weeks of pain through laminitis. Mine is 17.2hh and suffered with low grade lami about this time last year (after being turned out on afforementioned grazing, against my better judgement) fortunately it resolved in a matter of days but I will NEVER put him at risk of that again... It isn't just an illness of the little fat native or rotund cob, and it's becoming more and more common...
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Exactly why if I cannot have horses at home I will not have them at all. I am lucky and I appreciate that everyday.

I also appreciate that those at livery have to make the best of what they have, with whatever means they have available, be that stabling, strip grazing, starvation paddocks, muzzling, whatever - if it works then that's just fine. I would never condemn anyone for doing what they feel/find is best for their own horses.
I have Quarter Horses, they are incredibly prone to laminitis, so yes, I am well aware that it isn't just the little tubs that can be stricken.
 
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My fatty would never self regulate until he killed himself .
Hes in all day during summer ( no hay) gets a scoop of straw every two hours or so.
And hes worked .
Of course you could try out all the time but if you do wieght tape him twice a week so it can't creep up on you.
 
My haffy will stuff himself stupid given the opportunity, I've tried everything over the years, in during the day, out at night, muzzle, soaked hay, riding the hell out of him. This year I managed everything differently, I let them all into the spring paddock just before the grass started to grow so they only had last autumns low cal grass. They stuffed it all in a couple of weeks and are now on basically 2.5 acres of starvation paddock. So far I have no weight gain, I've had a few escaping issues due to the fact they think the grass is greener everywhere else, but much fencing later they are all looking great.
Don't really know why I didn't think of it earlier, they have grass but are probably eating a similar amount that they would when muzzled.
Early days, but if the fencing holds I think I may have found the way forward
 
Muzzles are a good option as they can still wonder around and it restricts the intake . Another idea is fence a track around the field rather than strip graze , this way they do the mileage and burn those calories !
 
My Lami prone is out pretty much 24/7 in summer, but she is worked harder and I use a combination of muzzle, lami paddock or in for a few hours off the grass depending on the state of the fields, length of grass etc. (we rotate fields so when we go into a fresh one it is action stations for a week or so til the others chomp it down a bit.)

She was very overweight when I had her and with me is now kept at a better weight and fingers crossed, touch wood etc we have been good so far
 
My boy is out 24/7 in summer as I much prefer him to be out but I have to ride his wee legs off!! :rolleyes:

Agree with previous posters...if it ain't broke don't fix it :)
 
somethingillremember said:
Muzzles are a good option as they can still wonder around and it restricts the intake . Another idea is fence a track around the field rather than strip graze , this way they do the mileage and burn those calories !
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Tracks are brilliant!!! If you are on a livery yard and have your own paddock it is simply a case of fencing a track around the perimeter, include the water trough, and perhaps divide up and strip graze the middle!! It's the best thing we have done with our land!! You can even muzzle for part of the time if he is really obese! But the extra movement is invaluable, not just for weight, but for hooves as well!! Google paddock paradise!!
 
Rhodders said:
My haffy will stuff himself stupid given the opportunity, I've tried everything over the years, in during the day, out at night, muzzle, soaked hay, riding the hell out of him. This year I managed everything differently, I let them all into the spring paddock just before the grass started to grow so they only had last autumns low cal grass. They stuffed it all in a couple of weeks and are now on basically 2.5 acres of starvation paddock. So far I have no weight gain, I've had a few escaping issues due to the fact they think the grass is greener everywhere else, but much fencing later they are all looking great.
Don't really know why I didn't think of it earlier, they have grass but are probably eating a similar amount that they would when muzzled.
Early days, but if the fencing holds I think I may have found the way forward
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Yes, This is kinda what we have done this year too... the mares were turned out onto our gelding's summer paddock for about 3 weeks before the boys went on it so there is a lot less out there to begin with. fortunately our grazing is quite rough and fibrous (where it has been allowed to grow long and then wilt) which suits mine fine, still muzzling every other night for now just to keep on top of the podge but hopefully not for too much longer :)
 
Enfys said:
To be fair that is a little harsh. 'These experts' may actually know what they are talking about - and it works for theirs, but perhaps not yours, as someone rightly said. I would say the same (except for the self regulating thing - I know that isn't a fact, at least, with mine) so I too fall into the 'these experts' slurry pit.

I hate muzzles with a vengeance, and won't use them on any horse of mine - but again, that is just a personal thing, if it works for your horse I would not expect you to give a toot for my opinion.


...It is quite impossible to prescribe precisely xyz for dear old 'Freddy' if you don't know him or any of his history from the next horse :)
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You've pretty much said it yourself, there, by that last sentence. They know THEIR OWN horses. Not yours. My definition of expert is someone who has studied their field (scuse the pun :D ) for a lengthy period, not their own horses. That means they know what works for them, not what they are talking about (a horse/pony which they do not know or care for and does not belong to them). People who own TBs and warmbloods without metabolic issues should not be dictating what should be done with an exmoor who has EMS.

FWIW I hate muzzles with a vengeance, too. Which is why I'm stabling. Before I was forced to move, I only used a muzzle to wean Henry onto/off grass, never for 12 hrs and certainly never 24. I like my horses to be able to perform 'horse' behaviours, which muzzles prevent. However without it he'd be stabled 24/7 where I am, as there is no bare paddock and the owner of the land won't allow one. Not so much a personal thing as the lesser of two evils.
 
My little fatty lived out all year round. In winter she had a large round bale of hay in her field shelter which she could help herself to as and when. One of these would last her a month. During the summer she was put on a smaller paddock with sparse grazing and that seemed to work well.
 
My fatty lives out 24/7 on a bare paddock. He is not ridden at the moment due to my pregnancy, I try to lunge or walk him a couple of times a week and he looks good at the moment and I can feel ribs! He has to be restricted or he stuffs his face, he has never self regulated. If you have very little grass you could trial some time out 24/7 but keep a very close eye. I used to weight tape my pony every other day.
 
no self-regulation here- to the point that on a recent 2 day stay at the vets the nurse thinks he was missing his 'stop eating button' I'm not surprised he is always eating for longer than the other one ;).

Used to strip graze and keep him in lots of work, now have a track.
 
I'm going to have to change my fatties routine as the current 24/7 turnout is too much for him, even with me trying to ride his legs down to stumps five times a week :p

Those that use a bare paddock or keep their fatties stabled, are they kept this way on their own? That's my only concern with doing this, my fatso would be on his own if I started bringing him in at night or putting him in a bare paddock, as his companions (owned by other people) are not lard arses and so can enjoy acres of 24/7 turnout. :confused: He calls and box walks when he's in on his own (at least it would use up some fat I guess! :p )

I understand muzzles shouldn't be used 24/7 so my plan is to muzzle during the day in the big area of grazing with his buddies and then bring him in or transfer to a bare paddock at night, but he would then be on his own overnight which won't be much fun for him. Has anyone else had the same and found a solution? :)
 
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