Keeping Shires info, experiences etc....

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horsefeed

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Brought 17.2hh 3 year shire gelding yesterday, leads lovely but not really been handled in any other way apart from that. Fidgets constantly when groomed, won't let you touch his belly or legs, can't pick out feet, never seen a farrier or not for a long time, The list is endless of things we need to work on.
Travelled like a pro and was very settled considering only 2nd time ever in a lorry and he had quite a big welcoming party as lots of people on yard wanting to meet him.
He didn't touch his hard feed (alfa A oil and beet) over night but ate reasonable amount of hay, drunk and pooped etc.
This morning, he didn't touch brekkie although have now worked out he likes sugar beet so will gradually introduce the Alfa over a few weeks. I also will start him on a balancer as soon as he's eating a proper feed.
He had turnout with the others for 1/2 hour but they are a very established herd and were just damn right horrible to him, so he is now separated again while I'm not there, they can touch etc over the post rail fence. He however wants to be back with them and stressing a little but can't risk leaving him with them without watching them. 16hh TB tried to drive him through the fence this morning.
He has never worn rug according to old owner but he wasn't warm this morning after about 20 mins managed to get 1 on him although he was physically shaking when initially laid it over his withers.
He won't eat carrots, apples, mints or horse treats, I want to clicker train him but need a treat he actually likes 1st!! Any ideas?
Any tips advice etc about caring handling, backing exceptionally large horses greatly appreciated.
Some pics are here on Fb.... https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207411781550234&set=pcb.10207411783590285&type=3&theater
 
Sounds exactly like us. My other half bought himself a 3yr old 17.2hh mainly unhandled shire mare. I might add here that he isn't horsey but just likes looking at them. All the work fell on me. She booted out bad when working with hind feet and stomped around when trying to pick fronts up.
It took a few weeks of stroking her leg with a very long handled pole to progressing to managing to get a soft rope hooked around her leg to start the lifting process but we got there.
She was scared of everything so I started off rugging her to get her used to things in and around her body. It took ages of very quiet movements all through the winter. I was beginning to think she'd never get there.
By the good news is that she just suddenly grew up and I went from inching a rug on but by bit to riding her around the barn. Shes amazing. So gentle now. Have hacked her out and she's as good as gold. I think once you get that initial acceptance of things sorted in a nice way they just take it all in their stride.
 
How much does yours eat? Some people say they aren't to bad, others say they eat Kg's and Kg's of hard feed and always look poor!
He seems very sweet at the moment because he separate its harder work but sure once herd settles and he's in with them its will be easier as they all have a huge yard, shelter and then small paddock to roam round this time of year with hay from cattle feeder.
My OH is a fair weather rider, used to ride a lot then old horse retired and lost interest so hoping he'll soon be back out riding again. He was up this morning at 6 to help with the horses which is first time in years he's helped with mornings, he normal ambles over late afternoon and finishes off all the jobs then.
 
As with any unhandled horse, time and patience will win the day.
We don't have a pure shire, but we do have a shire x dutch warmblood. We were in the same position when we bought her at weaning, all she knew was how to lead.
Some horses are not fed hard feed and don't know what it is. One 2 year old we bought had never had a hard feed in his life, he copied off my mare and was soon eating well. The first night we had him he didn't know what to do with the small feed we left him.
 
No experience of Shires, but am incredibly envious, I have always wanted a Shire, but never been anywhere with facilities for extra large nags. Good luck !
 
So jealous!
Ive never been lucky enough to own one but when I was younger I worked on a yard where one lived- Simon the shire! He was just so lovely and I was never allowed to ride him, being a skinny 17 yr old I got the ponies to ride!
Anyway one day I begged and was allowed and he was just the most amazing thing to ride- well behaved and polite but the power was unreal. From that day on I rode him several times a week and had jumping lessons on him. I really miss him and would love to own one oneday.
Good luck with yours
 
I've just started her off on alpha A, coolstance copra, sugar beet and a scoop of mix. She gets the same as my tb size wise.
My other half keeps saying she looking poor but he thinks she should be as wide as tall where in fact they aren't meant to be hefty. I'll try to put some photos up of her. She gets haylage with others as well but they tend to chase her off so I'll probably keep her in at night soon with the tb to make sure she gets plenty.
 
She was quite narrow when she arrived. She is coming 5 now so starting to look good. I'm sure he will look amazing in another couple years.
 
It sounds like he hasn't had much handling and simply doesn't know what bucket feed, titbits and rugs are or what is expected of him in terms of picking his feet up etc. It is your job to teach him but do it slowly, calmly and consistently. Don't worry about him being cold - he has survived this long without a rug, he will survive a little longer. Best not to un-nerve him by rushing introductions to rugging or any new equipment for that matter.

With regards to feeding, I would just introduce him to one thing at a time - if he likes the beet, get him eating that up before you start adding anything else a handfull at a time. I helped look after a shire for a few years and he thrived on grass, hay (about 3/4 a bale a day) and high fibre cubes and beet (about a round scoop of each at most twice a day). You could try chopping up the apples and carrots small and feeding them in his hard feed at first so he learns what they are - or loose in his hay?

Re the turnout situation, could you try introducing one of the other horses to him in 'his' field rather than the other way round - someone fairly middling in the pecking order? let them settle for a few days before either introducing another or introducing them both back to the herd.

As for picking his feet up it's just a case of persistence really. You might want someone to hold and praise him while you do it. Work on the fronts first and then the backs. again, no rush. he's survived this long without getting his feet done, another couple of weeks won't kill him.

Good luck! They are lovely horses, I'd love one one day!
 
CBFan said:
It sounds like he hasn't had much handling and simply doesn't know what bucket feed, titbits and rugs are or what is expected of him in terms of picking his feet up etc. It is your job to teach him but do it slowly, calmly and consistently. Don't worry about him being cold - he has survived this long without a rug, he will survive a little longer. Best not to un-nerve him by rushing introductions to rugging or any new equipment for that matter.

With regards to feeding, I would just introduce him to one thing at a time - if he likes the beet, get him eating that up before you start adding anything else a handfull at a time. I helped look after a shire for a few years and he thrived on grass, hay (about 3/4 a bale a day) and high fibre cubes and beet (about a round scoop of each at most twice a day). You could try chopping up the apples and carrots small and feeding them in his hard feed at first so he learns what they are - or loose in his hay?

Re the turnout situation, could you try introducing one of the other horses to him in 'his' field rather than the other way round - someone fairly middling in the pecking order? let them settle for a few days before either introducing another or introducing them both back to the herd.

As for picking his feet up it's just a case of persistence really. You might want someone to hold and praise him while you do it. Work on the fronts first and then the backs. again, no rush. he's survived this long without getting his feet done, another couple of weeks won't kill him.

Good luck! They are lovely horses, I'd love one one day!
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Excellent advice!

Take it very steady, OP. Heavy horses are usually very sensible if introduced to new experiences properly but if not they can soon build up prejudices and become nervous.

I have had a Shire and Clydesdales and found the Shire to be less laid back than the Clydies.
 
How exciting for you OP. If you have a spare hour or two have a read through the thread, 'my next equine project'. It charts the hilarious and frustrating bringing up of a feral yearling who is by a vanner out of a pure Shire mare. He has followed the Shire in every way, both looks and temperament.

My advice to you is :

Take your time, forget the saying 'gentle giant'. They are giants but they are not gentle, it will be you that makes them gentle. My lad is a sharp as a TB at times especially before a specialist breaker took him on.

Feed wise I gave him adlib good haylage from day one. He puts plenty away but is not a greedy feeder. Hard feed as a baby through to 3 used Dodson and Horrell Suregrow. Now a 4 year old in very light work I don't actually feed him other than a token handful of pony nuts after he has worked and in the evening to encourage him to come to me.

My lad is sensitive, wears his heart on his sleeve and now he has found some trust in us, is very anxious to work and please us. He is forward and very willing. They are slow growers and here are a few pictures to show you the changes. I promise it is the same horse !

Anyway, his story is there to read and I do update fairly regularly.

11 months old when he arrived.

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Rising 3

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August this year and just turned 4.

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Good luck with your new horse.
 
Thank you all for your advice :)
The beet is going down well on its own, last night he ate couple of scoops and my OH took him for a wander round yard in hand before we removed and replaced his rug which he was remarkably better about. This morning I added tiny bit of pink powder to his beet and he still scoffed it down and almost seemed happy to see his bucket appear.
The previous owner called yesterday to check how he was doing and so I mentioned about feed. He advised last winter he got budget mixed corn and they literally chucked piles out on the floor so he's never eaten out of bucket before either, I am going to pick up a cheap bag of mix at lunch and try him with some in a separate bucket to the beet. once I have him eating both I'll mix them together and work up to a full dose of pink powder and see how he goes with that and adlib hay.
Farrier is booked 2nd Dec so going to start handling his legs everyday in hope he can trim him at the same time as others or at least get fronts done.
He seems to be making friends through the fence, I will try him again out with them later in the week when I can be there in daylight.
 
Penny Less said:
No experience of Shires, but am incredibly envious, I have always wanted a Shire, but never been anywhere with facilities for extra large nags. Good luck !
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I would like a Shire x WB or Shire x TB for my next horse (although I hope my present boy will be around forever!)
 
Re the feet, is your farrier willing to come out specially for a "training" morning? Our youngest Appy developed a phobia of men picking up her feet, after a foot injury. I worked on her, but also our farrier came out for one morning just for her (rather than the regular visit for all four). We litteraly worked on him picking up the foot, then going and having a coffee, rinse and repeat until he was able to trim her foot by lunch time. I did introduce clicker training with her, especially for her feet and she didn't understand treats either to begin with, but soon got the hang of them :D
 
Just a few things we have learnt about shires. As AA said they are called gentle giants but only when they trust you and you have the confidence to instill that trust. Shires can be quite sharp but they learn quickly and once taught know their job. If in doubt there is no shame in finding your local heavy horse people who IME are only too happy to help and advise. Perhaps join your local heavy horse society (Southern Counties)?? At three your boy still has another 5 years to fill out so don't be tempted to over feed as this will be detrimental to his joints. They can also be quite hot horses
So don't over rug. Some heavy horse people wouldn't dream of rugging or clipping. Our mared is fully clipped as she is driven and its easier to dry her. Leg hair needs a good deal of attention so once you are able to get a good look check for sores often caused by a build up of grease which makes for very itchy skin. Mites can be a cause too. Pig oil and sulpher usually keep this under control. Try and avoid feed with molasses in as this can make heavys itchy. I hope some of that helps, good luck with him.
 
I have 2 shires, a 20 yr old and a 4 yr old, they are both amazing, my experience with my youngster is don't feed too much and keep them lean while growing, mine has developed ocd which results in rapid growth spurts too fast, therefor fragments of bone have detached from the hock joint, hopefully they should fuse over time, just keep spending time and I have found a guy called Warwick schiller quite helpful, (you tube)
 
If you feel that your Shire desperately needs more than hay, just give grass nuts, definitely no cereal or molasses but ad lib forage is the best feed.
I missed why you are introducing PinkPowder but if I were you, I wouldn't. If you read the ingredients you will see that they are mostly stuff that horses defintely do not need and not much of anything that they might need. I gave it to my horses and found that the 2 riding horses became anxious and developed very sensitve feet, even the one who is shod all round had trouble on stony tracks. As soon as they were taken off it, they were fine again.
 
Just thought I would give you all an update, 2 weeks after arriving the timid fella he is starting to find his feet!
After a few days in adjoining yard I put my elderly TB in with him and they became firm friends, I then introduced them to rest of herd when the herd leader was out hacking, after an hour or so all settled and then we put herd leader back with them, been few small ruckus's but nothing too major so letting them sort themselves out, last 2 days all 6 have been stood round hay ring together eating.
I cancelled farrier so he's still not been trimmed , decided no point rushing, he has been allowed to self trim and while they aren't pretty he is comfortable so not going to stress too much until he's happy with anyone picking his feet up. Hopefully will get them done while I am off over xmas.
He now stands quietly to have rug on and off, although he hates them and is a serial rug destroyer having ripped 1 beyond repair and 2 others now sat in garage waiting to be fixed, he has shelter which is using, despite having to keep his head down to stand inside he stays in when weather is bad so been leaving him naked.
Done loads of clicker work, will be touched all over with hand on stick and progressed to being stroked all over including all 4 legs with hand, starting to groom him although he's not 100% happy he will tolerate soft brushes. My OH picked all 4 feet out yesterday, he's bit snatchy with them still but doesn't panic or try and kick out anymore.
Leading and tying he is much better, he walks and stands pretty much on voice command, will trot in-hand with someone behind to encourage him forward, starting to learn back and round and basically to move away from pressure instead of tensing against it. Also trying to teach him to lower his head on cue to make life easier. He is 100% to catch even without headcollar on, although getting headcollar can be fun as he put his head up!
Led out up the road a few hundred yards, following my old TB, fab with cars and met 2 lorries, bit jumpy but very good boy with reassurance.
Worn a roller over a polypad and didn't even flinch and chucked saddle on his back (un girthed) when un-tacking a couple days ago and he stood like a rock.
Now eating bucket feed and getting into him, 2 stubbs scoop of Alfa A oil, 1 Beet, 1 Barley rings and some Vit/min supplements. He is also eating out our hands now, always the 1st to the gate to meet us and will pretty much do anything for a carrot!
 
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Considering his size I didn't think that is a lot, do other people think differently?
He does need to put some weight on, he is quite tucked up and needs to fill out a lot.
Weight wise it is about
1kg Alfa A oil
300g beet (make 1 scoop when soaked)
800g Barley Rings
+ vit/mins
The 15.1hh TBx eats twice as much as this just to maintain weight so thought he might not even be getting enough.
All my horses get ablib Hay and access to salt lick.
 
I suppose it depends on the horse! Mine is a HW 16hh (French) native, in medium work and he lives on Baileys lo cal balancer and weighed hay.

I couldn't cope if I had a poor doer needing masses of food!
 
We used to keep shires for showing many years ago. During the winter they were kept out as long as possible (I can remember wading through the snow to hay them :eek:) but once in (and we did them in a barn), were given ad lib forage, then fed sloppy sugar beet, chop and carrots and they were always fat as butter (or show condition as it it commonly known :p).
A good farrier sounds like a must for your boy - but do try and handle his feet yourself first, a shire is a big lump to keep upright / hang on to if they are not well behaved.
There are a fair few shire folks (past and present) near to you OP so do reach out to the local community, I'm sure they will be willing to help.
 
Thought I would update you all, Hercules has been with us for 3 months.
He is now living with the herd in the main yard, he is happy, settled and always 1st to come to call.
He has filled out a little on 1kg Alfa A Oil, 500g Beet and 500g Barley Rings plus adlib hay.
Eats out of buckets and sussed what food is really all about, will rummage through pockets and will do anything for a carrot!
He is now catchable so don't need to leave a headcollar on him, leads well, ties up
Lots of clicker training with hand on stick and he is fine with his feet, met the farrier for his 1st trim, he stood like a rock and I was very proud of him.
Happy with most traffic (working on motorbikes still), leads out confidently when has company
Had belly clipped as was so mattered I couldn't brush it out, did have to twitch him initially but once realised didn't hurt he stood like a rock.
Reasonably happy to have rugs on and off, once on he is fine and doesn't try to scrap them off anymore.
Worn saddle and we are just starting to lunge, will walk and stand on command
We've sat on him and wandered round bareback, currently waiting for dentist to come so we can then start biting him.
In the main he is very sane and sensible lad who is very laid back, he can however have sharp moments when spooked he cow kicks, caught me quite nastily a few weeks ago literally because I caught him off guard, live and learn and since then we have been doing lots of de-spooking work and it seems to be working.
He loves my OH and will try and hide behind him when in doubt which is very funny and cute.

Below is a few pics;

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207914392195186&l=80e49611ec
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207646595380433&l=08b49bc1cb
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207646597300481&l=499c177967
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207646624981173&l=4032c7baee
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10207646601660590&l=e37b2a16fe
 
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Been over a year since I update you on Hercules........
He's a challenge!
After being ridden bareback last spring, we had teeth done and back checked and started trying tack etc on him, all was going well until a girth strap snapped, rider fell off and he freaked and ran through a post and rail fence to get away! After that he wouldn't let us put saddle on his back at all and would panic and start broncing before could even do girth up. I sent him to local guy who has a good reputation and after 5 weeks of daily work he was walking round paddock on him in full tack quite happily and relaxed, then out of blue he proper bronced this guy off! Teeth, back, saddle all checked and only thing we can come up with is some sort of sting or insect bite!
After checked (time ran out with guy) he came home and I continued lunging/long reining in tack, he was nervous but ok. The guy visited us and while Hercules was obviously very upset her tolerated the guy getting on his back and walked a few steps and getting off. I then decided to leave it there and turn him away for winter.
This spring, I started working him again, he has definitely more matured and is generally a lovely lad to handle, groom, pick feet out, loads, tacks up and lunges like a pro. Even loose schooling he listens and performs bang on cues. Long reining is starting to really improve now but whenever you go to lean on him, he get quite upset, tense, back shoots up, eyes roll and go white. I have now got an instructor coming out weekly to help who is happy to get on him once she has seen all his groundwork etc. I have been set a lot of long reining exercises practice this week, transitions and in/out of cones etc and she is back out next week.
I am also going to make a dummy out of some old overalls and start sitting that on his back, anyone got any ideas?
 
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