Kelly Marks And Monty Roberts

ibot

ibot

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Morning
Last night i went to Hartbury College to see the Monty and Kelly demo.
Up until last night i was a Monty and Kelly virgin :D i found the whole thing so intresting, i think monty has a great stage presence he is quite funny and a pretty amazing rider for his years (honestly not jealous :p ok maybe a bit :D)
i was lucky enough to meet both and although Monty was very rushed Kelly was lovely really nice and normal probably someone i would have as a friend :)

I am now determined to have a go at join up which i have never done or tried to do with my beastie. Hopefully paddy will enjoy it as much as the horses did last night :cool:.

who else was there last night what did you think??


Nicky
xx
 
Hey ibot, I missed this one, but glad you had such a great time. Monty and Kelly work hard on their demos to try and make them fun AND informative, and so great to hear you want to try new things with your horse.
 
I went last night too. I thought it was a great night and Monty is a real showman and quite funny too.
His quarterhorse, Copy was brilliant, so balanced, light and obedient.
I think most of the women in the audience were in tears after he got Pogue to walk over the huge tarpaulin, the sad music and story didn't help!!!
The ex racehorse waith the sway back that was supposed to be a bad loader, I think was just a little bit pampered by his owner who said he wouldn't go in the box if he had pooed in it. It just shows that with proper handling and confidence there isn't a problem as he took no time at all to load easily.
Made a mad dash at the end to get away as was dreading trying to get out of the car park as it was heaving!!!
 
A lot of horses are already "joined up" without the need to send them round a pen. If your horse already seems to be with you, then it might not be fair to put him through the Join Up process?
 
Didn't see demo last night but I think they have good things to add to the horse world.

When my girl was really young we used to do 'join up' informally - when she wouldn't be caught and it definitely gave her the confidence that I was in charge and OK to follow - but she is a particularly strong minded bossy mare who had been ill treated I am not sure of the value of doing it with say my trusting gelding.

I also think the endless 'moving the horse back' that Monty does can also give confidence to a unconfident horse again that you are the leader and OK to follow.
 
Tinypony said:
A lot of horses are already "joined up" without the need to send them round a pen. If your horse already seems to be with you, then it might not be fair to put him through the Join Up process?
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Could not agree more, in fact it I think if not done perfectly it could in fact hamper your relationship as you would confuse the horse.

I have seen them a few times last time being a year ago, before that was several years ago and Monty upset a few of us then by insinuating that if we didn't buy ALL his products (nearly £500) we were not decent horse owners . It was nice to see last year he doesn't push his stuff on you as much. I do have a lot of respect for what they both can achieve
 
soulfull said:
Could not agree more, in fact it I think if not done perfectly it could in fact hamper your relationship as you would confuse the horse.

I have seen them a few times last time being a year ago, before that was several years ago and Monty upset a few of us then by insinuating that if we didn't buy ALL his products (nearly £500) we were not decent horse owners . It was nice to see last year he doesn't push his stuff on you as much. I do have a lot of respect for what they both can achieve
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i understand what your saying and when i do the "join up" i intend to have someone on hand to talk me through it rather than trying to remember, i have problems with my kids names so would not like to chance it :D:D
he was full of chatter about the internet college which actually came across as a bit of a joke in the end.

i do believe that the better you are informed and open minded you go into things the more you can learn and move forward. Take what you need and leave what you don't. I think, not sure if i wrote that correctly thou :cool:

Nicky
xx
 
dotty1 said:
I went last night too. I thought it was a great night and Monty is a real showman and quite funny too.
His quarterhorse, Copy was brilliant, so balanced, light and obedient.
I think most of the women in the audience were in tears after he got Pogue to walk over the huge tarpaulin, the sad music and story didn't help!!!
The ex racehorse waith the sway back that was supposed to be a bad loader, I think was just a little bit pampered by his owner who said he wouldn't go in the box if he had pooed in it. It just shows that with proper handling and confidence there isn't a problem as he took no time at all to load easily.
Made a mad dash at the end to get away as was dreading trying to get out of the car park as it was heaving!!!
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glad you enjoyed it too, me and my friend were the opposite to you we went down to get monty to sign our books :D :D

it was quite impressive the figure of 8 in counter canter i just know my horse would trip over lol :D
 
soulfull said:
I have seen them a few times last time being a year ago, before that was several years ago and Monty upset a few of us then by insinuating that if we didn't buy ALL his products (nearly £500) we were not decent horse owners . It was nice to see last year he doesn't push his stuff on you as much. I do have a lot of respect for what they both can achieve
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I've known Monty and his work for around 4 years now, and am very suprised to hear of him implying you had to buy £500 worth of kit to be a decent horseman! Certainly he is (justifiably) proud of the Dually headcollar, as it is this piece of kit that enables him to make such profound and effective changes to a horse's behaviour. And so yes I can imagine he'd definitely recommend to get one if you have a horse with any behavioural issues, such as bad loader, bargy etc.

I started out with the Dually (£40) and long lines (£30) which have been helpful on many horses I've worked with. Along with a couple of books I've bought over the years (can't remember, must be about £20-25 ish) that's been the sum total of my spending. There is a DVD set which my friend bought for around £45, but I can't think how you could get to £500 worth of kit even if you wanted to! (Unlike another certain American clinician who DOES insist that you can't even get STARTED without hundreds of pounds worth of DVD's, funny coloured stick and rope with clip to hit your horse with...:rolleyes:)
 
I would echo what Irishcob has said. I have been to a couple of Monty/Kelly demos (the first one was about 6 years ago) and on a course with Kelly Marks. I have honestly never heard of £500 worth of kit being pushed at the audience!

Yes, they recommend the Dually, longline and a book or two but that is it. They will happily give advice on what you can use as a DIY roundpen etc too.
 
I agree with Irish cob, I was at one of Kelly Marks' early demos (about 11 years ago!) and have been to several of the more recent one with both of them there. At none of these demos have I been 'pushed to buy anything when I went to speak with either of them.
My friends stubborn Haflinger gelding was used in the last Hartpury demo and she wasn't pushed to buy anything either although she does now use a dually to load him (which he broke :rolleyes: ).
 
I went last week, and they were amazing!
Kelly was so lovely, and I chatted to her for about half an hour! :D
Monty was so nice too, and was lovely.
Not once did they try and sell any of there products to me, and in fact recommended cheaper equipment.
I love them :D xxx
 
I was there.
I and too a Monty and Kelly virgin but my sister has done lots and seen lots.

It was a great night and i enjoyed it.

Althought i agree with the whole natural horsemanship and talking equs i think alot of it is common sence!
 
I've never met Monty but Kelly came to visit me once (not to train a horse, but because she loved a book I'd written and wanted to meet) and we have kept in touch.

Kelly is a truly lovely person, and totally straight and honest. She is not at all dogmatic about her methods and never claims that 'join-up' works for all horses - in fact, after meeting my stallion, she specifically advised me NOT to try it with him!
 
I've been to see Monty Roberts a number of times and initially I was quite impressed by him and his chat and join up.

However, a few years ago I saw him in Cheshire somewhere, and he had Kelly Marks with him. I remember they made a big thing about going round a course in the arena, through a gate and over a wooden bridge, that sort of thing, it was a Western Trail course, but presented it as though Monty had just thought of it.

Also, I'm sure that the horses which he chooses to join up with are selected as suitable, because I believe that join up can be difficult with some types of horses.

I don't like the fact that there is an element of racing the clock, ie. from untouched to saddled and bridled in 20 minutes.

I'm not sure about the pressure halter he uses either.

Having said all that, an entertaining evening all the same.
 
Went to see them a few years ago at a demo and was very disappointed. No criticism of their horsemanship,but the format of the demo. Too rushed, too loud,too pushy and I didn't come away with anything new.
Subsequently met a fellow livery on a yard I was on who was a Kelly Marks RA, she was the last person I'd let near one of mine. A bossy, highly stressy, know-it-all type of character. Do these training courses ever teach people how to work quietly, with humility and humour ?
 
Can only post from personal experience. Took my 2 year old along for selection afternoon few weeks ago (someone - Not MR - checks to see if they really do have the issue they say & that they are fit/sound so can be used in demo). They didn't use my horse, as they had a very 'dramatic' pony with plastic issue. My girl wouldn't let her hind leg be touched after serious flesh wound 6 months previously, previously she had been fine with farrier & is very well handled.

Aftr his selection, he asked for my girl back into the pen, & spent best part of an hour with her, 1 to 1. I went in with him, & all through I had a quiet explanation of exactly what he was doing & why. By the end she was confident about the leg, & he had also exposed her to plastic bags here there & everywhere on her (she is by nature a very smart, lively arab), until they were not an issue for her either. I could not have asked for more. It wasn't rushed (despite someone outside the pen giving unsubtle hints & basically being asked to leave him to finish), & he stopped at a point that was good for her. Now 2 weeks later she has allowed the farrier to trim that foot in a very calm, confident disposition. I really can't thank him enough.

A friend took along a 4 yr old to be started last year. This was not an 'easy' join up horse, & he had never even had a rug on in his life & lived out. They got to a rider leaning over his back, & MR decided this was enough for the first tiem. He didn't push on for the sake of producing the ideal starter demo, but stopped when he felt it was right for the horse. For that he has to be applauded.

I have no experience of RA, nor have felt pressured into buying loads of kit (I have bought a Dually second hand). I would though be very happy to take any of our horses, including the youngsters, to his shows for use in the demos. As much as he is a showman (not a fan of his music background), he is first & foremost a horseman.
 
I love MR, he has an amazing dispostition and air about him, very calming and knowledgable. I want to adopt him as my granddad!


I think its especially amazing that he has been able to use his talents to help troubled kids and prison offenders, an all round nice guy me thinks x
 
AndySpooner said:
I've been to see Monty Roberts a number of times and initially I was quite impressed by him and his chat and join up.

Also, I'm sure that the horses which he chooses to join up with are selected as suitable, because I believe that join up can be difficult with some types of horses.

Youre right on that one for sure. The horses used in the demos are worked on before they get anywhere near Monty and the audience so folks, to a certain extent youre being a wee bit duped.

I think Monty and Kelly are very good but it is cheating a bit working on a horse before a demo. Thats why I wont go and pay to see them in action.
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Andalusianlover said:
AndySpooner said:
I've been to see Monty Roberts a number of times and initially I was quite impressed by him and his chat and join up.

Also, I'm sure that the horses which he chooses to join up with are selected as suitable, because I believe that join up can be difficult with some types of horses.

Youre right on that one for sure. The horses used in the demos are worked on before they get anywhere near Monty and the audience so folks, to a certain extent youre being a wee bit duped.

I think Monty and Kelly are very good but it is cheating a bit working on a horse before a demo. Thats why I wont go and pay to see them in action.
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Poor Andalusianlover - always looking for the negative. You are in no way being duped in my experience. Nothing is worked on as suggested but they are taken into the round pen to see if they are suitable for demonstration purposes. Sometimes if treated differently from the start, horses just behave and no-one wants to watch a horse do nothing wrong. Too easy - no demo.
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Tinypony said:
A lot of horses are already "joined up" without the need to send them round a pen. If your horse already seems to be with you, then it might not be fair to put him through the Join Up process?
Click to expand...

I was wondering about this myself.

My new horse follows me around the field when I poo pick, I tend to adopt the body language that I have seen Kelly and Monty doing and the turn and rub head thing (I don't know that much about join up, just what I have seen on horse and country channel!). I was wondering if this is a kind of join up? :confused:

I find the whole Kelly and Monty way of working very interesting and would love to go to a live show.
 
Andalusianlover said:
AndySpooner said:
I've been to see Monty
the audience so folks, to a certain extent youre being a wee bit duped.

I think Monty and Kelly are very good but it is cheating a bit working on a horse before a demo. Thats why I wont go and pay to see them in action.
Click to expand...


I can say very catagorically neither Kelly nor Monty touch or work with any of the horses at any point before the demo.

One of their handlers goes in the round pen with them, sends them round for a few minutes princibly to check for soundness. They do turn away & see if the horse makes any attempt to follow in order to determine what they are working with. At our selection afternoon (he used 4 of the 6 horses taken there, he always has extras in case some don't turn up) he specifically picked one who did not follow the person when they turned away as he wanted to show a harder subject.

They then test to see if the horse does what owner claims (in my girls case moving away when anything got near her leg), otherwise they would look fools in the demo if the 'problem' wasn't visible before they started.

They do not work on the animals at all. My horse went back into the pen after the assessments for Mr Roberts to work on her AS SHE HAD NOT BEEN CHOSEN FOR THE EVENING DEMO, this was the first time he had touched/worked her or been in the pen that day. All demo horses returned to their stables where they were soley cared for by their owners. The first time a member of MR team touched thoses horses again was to lead them to the pen during the evening performance.

I can honestly say at The Grange 3 weeks ago what you saw was genuine, nothing staged, nothing had been worked on before the demo & it was his skill on the day. For anyone who went will testify there was a very bad non-loader (the harder subject he had chosen), which he used in the demo & was VERY clearly not an 'easy option'!
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Last edited:
My apologies, never done the 'quote' thing before & got it assigned to the wrong person. Sorry Andyspooner.
 
I always think it's a bit of a shame that Join up (the formal process) is what many people take from these Demos. It's the principles imo that are the important bit and the non violent philosophy that is the really important bit I think.
Join up can be dangerous with some horses and owners inexperienced in the technique. Relationships are made with your horse imo over time with consistant, fair and understanding handling, JU is not a requirement imo.;)

Again it's a case of take what you need and is useful but most of all it's the message to ask why is my horse doing this, and what can I do to get things better for him and me, that I've personally taken from Monty/IH, .that has been my biggest single lesson.
 
I have just started reading Kelly Marks' book 'Perfect Manners' and although I'm not very far in, I already love it! She has pointed out so many simple things to me which I didn't know or simply hadn't thought about.

I can't wait to read the rest of it. :)
 
HollyWoozle said:
I have just started reading Kelly Marks' book 'Perfect Manners' and although I'm not very far in, I already love it! She has pointed out so many simple things to me which I didn't know or simply hadn't thought about.

I can't wait to read the rest of it. :)
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thats what i brought on the day i just have not had time to get to it yet :mad:

do you think that yo resort to what you know in the long run?? when i ride my horse i use a whip on him when all else fails is that maybe wrong?? when i am riding i am not thinking of anything except what my gut says :confused: it does not mean i need the RSPCA called in ???

when i was at the show they did at one point say that monty did work on one of the ponies during the day and perhaps did too good a job but if its a step forward then that should be a good thing :confused: whats right for the horse and all :)
 
Ditto Bundle20 and Pip6. My daughter's pony was used in a demo. In the morning when we arrived the pony was taken into the round pen and sent away by one of Monty's qualified helpers. The helper didn't do a join up, he just sent the pony away round the pen a few times and Monty watched from outside the pen. He assesed her fitness and soundness and said she could be used later that night for the demo. That was it and in no way shape of form did he work with her before the event.
 
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