Kentucky 2010 : Anky suprised everybody with her ride

Thank you 'perfect11" and TS for kindly enlightening me on the subject of english tack Vs Western- my bad, clearly I did not appreciate that western horses can be v well schooled in their tack. Did not understand how they could possibly learn to be really engaged and balanced in a huge heavy stock saddle and a big gag mouthpiece. But obviously they can!

Now, now. ;)

Western saddles aren't THAT heavy, first off. Okay, heavier than english ones but most people can pick one up one handed. They are also obviously built very differently underneath and spread the pressure over a larger area. Of course, just like english saddles you can have fitting issues, even damage, but to be honest, aside from a few particulars, my experience has been if people use the right bars etc, they are actually somewhat more forgiving than english saddles. That said, just as in english saddles, quality makes a huge difference but no one going to the WEGs is going to be riding in a cheap Indian leather saddle, no matter what discipline they're in.

The bits are leverage bits, obviously (curbs, not gags) but there are many variations of mouthpieces, shank length and construction (some quite long ones are "swept back" in such a way that the leverage factor is actually fairly low), curb strap material etc, combined depending on what the horse needs. All of which need to be FEI legal. Again, as with english trainers, western trainers have walls full of bits. They are also made to be ridden with in a very particular way. Anyway, if leverage bits are bad, all the dressage horses have got to go, too. ;)

As perfect11s said, young horses start in snaffles and not everyone even schools at home in a curb. It is also interesting how many people do "bridleless reining" - you don't see too many GP horses doing that - which would suggest (and is my experience) relatively little is done with the hand. It think it's really interesting for english riders to ride a well trained western horse, if only for a reminder of how little *has* to be done with the hand.

On the Anky front, I really don't think her horse went so much better than anyone else's. Although I do think it's funny she was late with her changes. ;) Anyway, have the english world seems to hate her way of doing things so if she'd made her reining horse the same way, wouldn't it be showing the same faults?

I have to say, it makes me a bit sad that people don't seem to want to appreciate good horsemanship if it doesn't look like what they're used to. There's good riding and bad riding - all on display at the WEGs, not to mention everywhere else. As I said, I really don't like quite a bit about the "western way of doing things" (again, it's a BIG world so not fair to generalise but most of my experience has been AQHA) but I've also seen some truly great riders and horses in that world. And some really terrifying ones in other disciplines.

Sorry, I'm not trying to pick on anyone, just saying there's as much to learn from other disciplines as there is to hate. I agree there are trends/fashions/practices that might not be to everyone's tastes but surely that's MORE reason to look "outside the box" and see what might be different/worse/better somewhere else?
 
Now, now. ;)

Western saddles aren't THAT heavy, first off. Okay, heavier than english ones but most people can pick one up one handed. They are also obviously built very differently underneath and spread the pressure over a larger area. Of course, just like english saddles you can have fitting issues, even damage, but to be honest, aside from a few particulars, my experience has been if people use the right bars etc, they are actually somewhat more forgiving than english saddles. That said, just as in english saddles, quality makes a huge difference but no one going to the WEGs is going to be riding in a cheap Indian leather saddle, no matter what discipline they're in.

The bits are leverage bits, obviously (curbs, not gags) but there are many variations of mouthpieces, shank length and construction (some quite long ones are "swept back" in such a way that the leverage factor is actually fairly low), curb strap material etc, combined depending on what the horse needs. All of which need to be FEI legal. Again, as with english trainers, western trainers have walls full of bits. They are also made to be ridden with in a very particular way. Anyway, if leverage bits are bad, all the dressage horses have got to go, too. ;)

As perfect11s said, young horses start in snaffles and not everyone even schools at home in a curb. It is also interesting how many people do "bridleless reining" - you don't see too many GP horses doing that - which would suggest (and is my experience) relatively little is done with the hand. It think it's really interesting for english riders to ride a well trained western horse, if only for a reminder of how little *has* to be done with the hand.

On the Anky front, I really don't think her horse went so much better than anyone else's. Although I do think it's funny she was late with her changes. ;) Anyway, have the english world seems to hate her way of doing things so if she'd made her reining horse the same way, wouldn't it be showing the same faults?

I have to say, it makes me a bit sad that people don't seem to want to appreciate good horsemanship if it doesn't look like what they're used to. There's good riding and bad riding - all on display at the WEGs, not to mention everywhere else. As I said, I really don't like quite a bit about the "western way of doing things" (again, it's a BIG world so not fair to generalise but most of my experience has been AQHA) but I've also seen some truly great riders and horses in that world. And some really terrifying ones in other disciplines.

Sorry, I'm not trying to pick on anyone, just saying there's as much to learn from other disciplines as there is to hate. I agree there are trends/fashions/practices that might not be to everyone's tastes but surely that's MORE reason to look "outside the box" and see what might be different/worse/better somewhere else?

My 5 year old was started in a snaffle and it is only now a year later and after he has learnt self carriage that he is being put into a baby shank bit to finish him......I by the way will not be allowed to ride him in the shank until I have perfected how to use it on a totally finished schoolmaster.

My biggest problem with swapping from a Dressage discipline to Western was getting to grips with riding with a loose rein and having a horse that is so light in the mouth that you feel no weight in the hands at all and yet it will still work collected.

As for being soft supple and very straight yep they train them like that I come from a Dressage background and I had my old friend who is an experienced dressage rider over for a weekend....My western trainer bet her my horse could go out and compete Novice level right now. she hopped up and completed a Novice level test on him with only an hours practice.....horse never been trained english remember....my trainer won 100 euro from that bet:-))

I have been riding and competing Dressage for 30 + years but and like a lot of people thought Western was all yahoo and big bits......all I can honestly say is I have never seen so much patience and a yard full of totally laid back horses that you can do anything with and take anywhere.....you only have to look at the average collecting ring at your local western show to see the difference. And I can honestly say I have never met such a friendly helpful bunch of horse people before

If you really want to see something different and showing some great horsemanship look at the below its the Extreme Trail Speed Run at the Oregon Horse Centre.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmQeNy25iTI&feature=related
 
I know nothing about reining but was watching a H&C TV programme on reining the other day and if you didn't look at the screen, but only listened to what the guy was saying about how he trains his horses to go, you would not know whether this was dressage or reining. Sounds like the same principles of achieving power from behind, engagement, lightness, etc.

The commentators on Sky Sport called the reining horses the "Golden Retrievers of the horse world" for being so chilled out after their tests!
 
I thought Anky did great, but have to say that the dressage world does not have the monopoly on training the horse to go straight!
What I always find amazing is that a lot of the guys at the top in reining are pretty big, and they maybe don't look the most athletic of sportsmen, but they seem to manage to get their horses going so well and stay out of their way. Must have incredible feel and timing - their horses look like they know the pattern and are running it themselves, rather than the horses of the not quite so successful competitors that look as though they are being managed much more.
 
Nice to see some positive comments towards reining and interest in the western style of riding.
The training of these horses is all about once the horse gives you what you want you let him get on with it and leave them alone.
Reining is like a display of all the cow cutting type manouveres on a pattern.
It is all very precise and if you think the rider makes it look easy then they have done a good job as the rider shows the judges they are in total control of the horse etc with minimum apparent interference, hence the hand right up the neck to exagerate the loose rein.
Everybody should have a go a reining, it is brilliant!
I think there would be alot of pleasantly suprised people, the horses are just trained so well.
For those that are interested check out this reining run with no tack!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEaMI5PkLIM
 
Top