Keratex hoof hardener reaction?

Fluffypiglet

Fluffypiglet

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I can’t find anything to suggest this is a thing but I have just started to use this and horse is not happy! Last year he had some general ill health and as part of everything we noted he had thin soles. He had pads put on which were removed a while ago as obviously no hard ground during mud season and he wasn’t really in work. The ground is starting to harden and he’s a little bit footy so have started keratex after discussing it with farrier. Horse was a bit snatchy when I put it on and now after very limited use of it is very reluctant to go near anything stony around the yard and is keen to go in the sand school instead which is the absolute opposite of usual! He’s still not keen being in the school but prefers it to other options. Could it be related to the keratex? I’ve only put it on the sole and that’s actually quite a small area as he has quite wide shoes. Has anyone ever had a bad reaction to it?
 
Tiddlypom said:
No, it’s only ever worked well for my thin soled barefoot mare.

It’s only to be applied to the sole and lower part of the hoof wall, though. Not to the frogs, collateral grooves or heel bulbs as it will rot them. Might you have accidentally done that?
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I don’t think I did! I realise it’s rather potent but I’m really keen he doesn’t have to have pads on again if I can help it. I might get a smaller brush… 😊
 
ihatework said:
I mean horses will always find something to be reactive to, so it’s not beyond the realms of possibility.

But I might also float the idea of mild laminitis which is the right time of year and you are listing classic symptoms
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Thank you, that did go through my mind although he’s not a typical lami type (TB style ISH) . He was tested for Cushings last year as definitely has some similar signs but it was negative. Not something I’ve ever dealt with but I couldn’t feel any pulses. he is on good grazing and likes his grass but he’s only out for half a day due to the others being very lami types! Hmmm not sure what to do. Thank you for the input - I started to wonder about that as I typed my original post!
 
unlikely to be a reaction but its literally formaldehyde so do you REALLY want that on his feet?

footy and sore despite shoes would worry me, there is something serious going on internally and i think a vet call is in order but i would be taking a long hard look at foot balance and shoeing and deciding if a long term rehab plan without shoes is needed.
 
Hallo2012 said:
unlikely to be a reaction but its literally formaldehyde so do you REALLY want that on his feet?

footy and sore despite shoes would worry me, there is something serious going on internally and i think a vet call is in order but i would be taking a long hard look at foot balance and shoeing and deciding if a long term rehab plan without shoes is needed.
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He’s had a huge amount of vet input throughout last year and so far this year and is under a new farrier which has improved his feet a lot. Unfortunately I agree there appears to be something not right with him but two different vets have struggled to identify what it is. Probably several different things unfortunately. He’s had treatment for one thing earlier this year and was improving loads but this is a very recent change that coincided with the ground hardening. He will have another vet visit but I wanted to check this specific thing first.
 
I used to use their gel which was (is?) very good and did help with horn quality, hence asking. I would expect a horse to react to the hardener more as you apply it, if they had any specific sensitivity but that's just gut reaction :).
 
I used it on my old pony for about a year. It didn't make much difference to him but he didn't react. He hasn't got any thrush where it could reach sensitive areas has he?
 
Gloi said:
I used it on my old pony for about a year. It didn't make much difference to him but he didn't react. He hasn't got any thrush where it could reach sensitive areas has he?
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No thrush at all. His feet do generally appear much improved recently until the last few days. Which would appear to be more likely to grass rather than any thin soles!!
 
I used Keratex hoof hardener under vet direction, and it’s really helped senior Cushing’s mare when used as directed. She’d just had a fresh set of foot balance x rays which showed nothing nasty except for her very thin soles which she’s always had.

But agree this case sounds very low level lami like.
 
An update for you post vet visit - low grade lami caught early 👍👏 so thank you all for your help, much appreciated as it’s not something I’ve experienced with my own horse before. Luckily his fab YO is well used to managing horses appropriately but his signs were particularly subtle. Horse is tucking into his soaked hay now. Vet did test his hooves and thinks he doesn’t have particularly thin soles so the hoof hardener isn’t particularly needed! 🙄 obviously I won’t be using it for now anyway and will reassess his feet at the next farrier visit. I’m glad I asked though 😁
 
Hi to anyone interested. Horse had bloods the day of the vet visit and results received yesterday were that there is absolutely nothing to see. No raised insulin, muscle markers (?) all absolutely fine. So despite everything suggesting lami now appears it isn’t?! Vet was keen to get off the phone before I could process as she was possibly heading out on a visit (I’d chased for results yesterday) . She did say to keep him on his paracetamol and see how he goes. She said his diet (including grass) is good? We do have a muzzle arriving so that when they go onto spring grass we can be cautious and he’s on soaked hay so he’s being healthy and sensible anyway but I’m a bit confused and if anyone has any ideas/ insight I would be grateful! I have the farrier coming today to see if he has any ideas. Perhaps it is the hard ground? Any thoughts welcome! Glad he’s healthy from a blood’s perspective, but what next… 🤷🏻‍♀️ Thanks
 
Fluffypiglet said:
Thank you, that did go through my mind although he’s not a typical lami type (TB style ISH) . He was tested for Cushings last year as definitely has some similar signs but it was negative. Not something I’ve ever dealt with but I couldn’t feel any pulses. he is on good grazing and likes his grass but he’s only out for half a day due to the others being very lami types! Hmmm not sure what to do. Thank you for the input - I started to wonder about that as I typed my original post!
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Fluffypiglet said:
They did everything else but not sure about that specifically as he had that tested a few months ago and his results were low? Vet likes to do that annually once they get over 15.
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I don't understand "has some similar signs" presumably cushings signs. The ACTH test is not reliable. My cushings horse (with every sign possible) tested at 17 ie neg. I didn't believe it and a week later he retested at 11 which is very negative. From his signs he had full blown cushings and responded very quickly to prascend (cushings drug)

If you have signs I would retest and if necessary I would TRH stim test which may give a more accurate result.

If this was my horse, and sadly I have experience of lami, EMS and cushings (PPID), then if it resembled lami I would treat as laminitic until totally proven otherwise. From what you have written I wouldn't yet be satisfied this wasn't cushings especially in view of his age.

Always best to assume laminitis. You say he likes his grass. That may well be your answer.
Hallo2012 said:
unlikely to be a reaction but its literally formaldehyde so do you REALLY want that on his feet?
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some people appear happy with it but personally I wouldn't put anything on my horse's feet I wouldn't put on myself.

If kerratex made a difference I wouldn't think it was allergy but wonder if it had hardened the sole (as it was meant to do) and the hard sole was then causing pain as the horse's feet landed.
 
So glad you have him diagnosed, my immediate thought was sub clinical lami when I started to read this post. I have just posted on another thread about lami:

K

Thread 'Horse 'feeling his feet' and hoof hardener?'

One of my barefoot horses (been barefoot all his life) has started to be a bit footy when hacking. is on good grass with a grazing muzzle on with no hard feed to speak of. My farrier says that there are a lot of horses feeling their feet at the moment due to the ground suddenly getting hard after such a lot of rain, and to use Ketertex hoof hardener. i have ordered some but suddenly wondering if its a waste of money as his feet are already hard???
what are your thoughts ( I am very aware it may be low grade laminitis!!!! )
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My pony’s ACTH was considered not massively high at 50 during the seasonal rise in the autumn. At that level if no symptoms, some wouldn’t medicate. But we have struggled with this ponies feet (thin soles, footiness, general on/off sourness), for a while and when he went down with lami last autumn and we rechecked his ACTH it was 50, from 25 the previous year. We already knew he was insulin deregulated and he was managed for this, so we started Prascend, alongside Steglatro to bring his insulin down. Thinking he was ok, after a chat with the vet, I dropped the dose of prascend to a half tab - insulin went up, and he was sore again. After reading up and asking on here about relationship between PPID/ID and lami, I put him back onto a whole pill and he’s been great ever since. We did experience a bit of the Prascend veil but it was short lived. My vet said he’s not considered particularly high at 50 - they get 3 figure numbers for some. But if your horse is in the early stages, you might find this low grade lami returns unless the PPID is under control.
. I struggled with my pony for over a year, because his previous years ACTH was only 25. Mine is also ID and came to me thin but with fat pads and a cresty neck. I feel the PPID has affecting him over the last two years - and may explain why despite managing him as an EMS pony he was “never quite right”.

I totally agree with everything @paddy555 has said. My vet always says to me forget the numbers let’s deal with the horse in front of us. The numbers help, but if your horse has symptoms, I would def be looking at treatment. £30 a month for pills is way better than constant vets bills. My pony was exhibiting several very subtle symptoms that suggested the PPID needed controlling now, not when it reached a 100 in another year. He is13 but with hind sight - we should have started treatment last year.

I hope you get to the bottom of why your horse has lami - there will be a reason. You could even ask your vet if you could do a three month trial on Prascend.
 
Fluffypiglet said:
Vet was keen to get off the phone before I could process as she was possibly heading out on a visit (I’d chased for results yesterday) . She did say to keep him on his paracetamol and see how he goes. She said his diet (including grass) is good?
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I actually find it a bit concerning that a vet would not be concerned about the grass being an issue with a horse with lami. I would ask the vet what they thought the cause of the lami was, and if you are not happy I think I’d get a second opinion.
 
Re Cushings signs - general poor performance, thin soles, loss of top line. He looked like an old horse even though he’s only 15. But he’d had a bad virus for the first half of last year and never quite got better. He’d been out of work and we ended up medicating his back as his KS had worsened- likely due to being out of work and losing condition. Following his KS injections in December and in hand rehab work he’s starting to look and feel good again. We’re starting riding and then this suddenly. Change of yard, diet (low sugar/starch) and farrier and he and his feet are tons better, sole doesn’t depress anymore. Farrier has been this morning and horse has improved since the other day. Trotted up like we’re at Badminton! So we’re going to continue to treat as though it was lami and see how we go. 🤞🤞
 
for anyone not yet familiar with this topic there is a lot of info on this site especially under their heading "information"

it covers laminitis, cushings (PPID) EMS and a whole lot more.


www.thelaminitissite.org

Laminitis

Laminitis essentials What is laminitis? What causes laminitis? HAL / SRL / SLL Diagnosing laminitis - clinical signs of laminitis Treatment and management of laminitis - emergency & longer-term...
www.thelaminitissite.org

Fluffypiglet said:
Re Cushings signs - general poor performance, thin soles, loss of top line. He looked like an old horse even though he’s only 15. But he’d had a bad virus for the first half of last year and never quite got better. He’d been out of work and we ended up medicating his back as his KS had worsened- likely due to being out of work and losing condition. Following his KS injections in December and in hand rehab work he’s starting to look and feel good again. We’re starting riding and then this suddenly. Change of yard, diet (low sugar/starch) and farrier and he and his feet are tons better, sole doesn’t depress anymore. Farrier has been this morning and horse has improved since the other day. Trotted up like we’re at Badminton! So we’re going to continue to treat as though it was lami and see how we go. 🤞🤞
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no idea about your horse of course but the red flags for me above which would make me wonder
are
poor performance. Lethargy is a big symptom of cushings
loss of top line some look pot bellied almost "fat but thin"
thin soles. Abscesses are very high on my list
looking like an old horse,
bad virus. My horses normally just got over viruses, infections and minor illnesses without any drama. The cushings one wanted not only the vet but 2 bottles of meds for even the slightest problem. :D

I hope your chap continues to do well. My comments are just generally for anyone following who may just have heard of cushings etc etc.
 
My horse was the opposite , she seemed depressed to me and a bit grumpy, which she had never been before. I asked for vet visit to test for cushings and vet said she didn’t think it was but when test came back her reading was 172. So I think it might also work the other way …
 
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