Kids and harsh bits?

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Equine_Dream

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Ok am I the only one bothered by this!? Ive noticed it a lot lately. Young kids on ponies with very harsh bits in their mouths. Theres a girl up my yard who has a very pretty Part Bred Arab. Shes all of 8 and the poor pony is in a 3 ring gag with the rein on the bottom ring. Her mum constantly plasters photos of her riding said pony tugging its mouth to pieces. It really makes me squirm.
Also a friend has just bought a new horse for her daughter; 16hh Tb mare. Her daughter is 13. The mare was in a snaffle but her daughter struggles to hold her when excited so yep.... dutch gag to the rescue!

Im sorry but I find it crazy. If I had a child and bought them a pony that was so strong for them, it needed to be riddin in a gag I would be getting them a quieter pony. I just feel that bits like them require experienced quiet hands. Something even the most experienced young rider may take time to achieve.

Thoughts?
 
Kids with harsh bits infuriate me - but then so do adults who use them as a quick fix. I also hate seeing little kids with spurs... Crazyness.
 
Agree.

Daughter has a whizzy pony and I get a lot of people say I should put a stronger bit on her and/or use a flash .. but I don't think that is the answer.

I was cringing recently to see a boy with no seat, and not much balance, jumping a lovely looking pony in a 3 ring gag using the bottom ring. Pony was a saint.
 
I don't know - as a parent I would like my child to be safe. When I was a child I was only allowed to ride in a snaffle and regularly disappeared over the horizon. My sons first off lead rein pony was a whizzy little beast and he rode in a 3 ring gag, on the bottom ring. As he rarely (read never) had a contact it made no difference to her but at least he could stop when necessary.
 
A child or adult with a harsh bit used gently and selectively is better IMO than a soft bit used aggressively and continuously by anyone. As in all things, it depends on the education that the hands have received!
 
gunnergundog said:
A child or adult with a harsh bit used gently and selectively is better IMO than a soft bit used aggressively and continuously by anyone. As in all things, it depends on the education that the hands have received!
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But thats the point, they arent being used gently. At least in my experience. Dont get me wrong Ive seen a fair few adults use these bits incorrectly. It just strikes me as more likely that a child will use them incorrectly to begin with as they will not have had time to develop the skills. As I said thats not to say all adults use them correctly either. Just seems more likely with a child. Plus like I said I would never have a young child on a pony that was so strong it NEEDED to be in one of those bits.
 
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Surely the problem is more to do with poor training (of rider and pony)? If the kids were better riders...........
 
Cortez said:
Surely the problem is more to do with poor training (of rider and pony)? If the kids were better riders...........
Click to expand...

I agree its not the bit thats the issue but rather the training of the rider. My point is that I fail to see how a child of 7/8 will have had time to gain the experience required to use these bits correctly.
 
Thankfully don't see this where I ride but I am dreading going to competitions and seeing it, I am too mouthy will probably say something lol.

The kids here rarely use the whip even though they insist on carrying one. Only do when they are told to.
 
In the UK the general attitude with horses is to cover up the problem rather than fix it, and you see it at all levels.

I wish we had more of an emphasis on training the rider here rather than the 'naughty' horse. Makes me cross and annoyed, and sad for these poor horses.
 
See, this annoys me because i know that generally they don't need it. My friends kid rides a 6yo welsh A in a snaffle, and has been riding for about 5 weeks. This mare is difficult, but responds perfectly to this bit. Its schooling/training not the horses mouth :(
 
When my children were small (a lot of years ago) and riding little ponies I used to put them in a Kimblewick. The children knew that they could stop when they wanted to, so they didn't hang on to the reins. The ponies respected their riders, and generally ended up back in snaffles.
 
There is a 12hh pony on the show circuit that is ridden in a Swales. Super pony, nice little rider but I cant help feeling that such a small well schooled pony shouldnt be wearing one and the bit has no place on a childs pony
 
If dutch gags were used with two reins, as they should be, then they would not be put in the hands of children. Sadly ignorant adults have made it popular to misuse the bit and are spreading the ignorance!
 
You've hit a very raw nerve with me. I picked my small pony up on Sat from her loaners. The pick up was arranged but having seen her on Friday she would have been coming home anyway. A year ago she took her 7 yr old rider off lead to win PC mini camp in a hanging snaffle. On Friday she was being ridden in a jointed pelham, with roundings and a curb. Not even small pony sized but with the full leverage of 4" shanks in novice hands. The explanation "but she's so strong". She isn't strong, she had learnt to nap mildly at the gate because her rider used no lower leg. An old fashioned pony club kick and a short crop would have sorted it. I drove her (in a snaffle) Sunday and the poor little thing is backing off from any contact. If I'd sold her and not loaned I would have been in tears :(
 
gunnergundog said:
A child or adult with a harsh bit used gently and selectively is better IMO than a soft bit used aggressively and continuously by anyone. As in all things, it depends on the education that the hands have received!
Click to expand...

Agree. Unfortunately ponies have to suffer children learning to ride. Parents have to do their best to make the situation the best you can. It's not easy!
 
I do agree, particularly when they are only used 'just in case'. And why is it always a Dutch gag these days? A very harsh bit with lots of leverage. Years ago it was mainly pelhams and kimblewicks which usually came with a mullen or straight mouthpiece which are reasonably comfortable for the pony.

But worse than this IMO is the lack of use of neckstraps or balance straps. Do parents think it's not cool for their children to be seen holding on? At a mini hunter trial I went to recently two children (same mother) both went over the fences using their ponies' mouths to keep themselves on. They should have been using a neckstrap (both were on the leadrein so neither needed to steer). And I bet you can't guess which bits these leadrein ponies were sporting? Yep, that's right, Dutch gags.
 
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millikins said:
You've hit a very raw nerve with me. I picked my small pony up on Sat from her loaners. The pick up was arranged but having seen her on Friday she would have been coming home anyway. A year ago she took her 7 yr old rider off lead to win PC mini camp in a hanging snaffle. On Friday she was being ridden in a jointed pelham, with roundings and a curb. Not even small pony sized but with the full leverage of 4" shanks in novice hands. The explanation "but she's so strong". She isn't strong, she had learnt to nap mildly at the gate because her rider used no lower leg. An old fashioned pony club kick and a short crop would have sorted it. I drove her (in a snaffle) Sunday and the poor little thing is backing off from any contact. If I'd sold her and not loaned I would have been in tears :(
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Wow they just changed the bit without even asking? That would really annoy me, I would never change any tack on a horse on loan unless I asked the owner first. If they were having so called issues with the pony, why didnt they ask you about it? I know there is a girl at the stables where I am that is loaning a pony and when she takes him to the field, he has started bolting downhill at a certain point knowing she'll fall off. But they've asked his owner to help them with it, they didnt just go and put a stronger bit on him.
 
This has just reminded me to write a bit clause in the loan agreement for our pony. we spent a lot of money on a nice little Bomber snaffle for him it's that or nothing (stamps foot down). We are however subjecting prospective loaners to riding test so that should help avoid dreaded over biting/under talent combination.
 
Big bits in any hands that are rough annoy me - adult or child. I have seen 10yr olds handle a double bridle better than many adults and I have seen 10yr olds that should be on a lunge line. You can't tar them all with the same brush just as you can't say every adult with BHS exams (example) should be comfortable with a double or two reins on a Pelham.
It does annoy me if roundings aren't used on 3rings and pelhams if the rider can't handle two reins. Such an easy piece of kit that could save many horse's poor mouths.
 
I was thirteen when I used a three ring gag on my cob. I only used it for a while and the moment she stopped being strong then I went back her usual French link. I have steady hands and have had lessons with an international event rider since the age of 6. I felt unsafe for a while and so switched bits with advise of knowledgeable people. I do hate it though even seeing children jerking around snaffle bits as even the softest bits can be harmful in the wrong hands.
 
Cortez said:
Surely the problem is more to do with poor training (of rider and pony)? If the kids were better riders...........
Click to expand...

This, worse case was at a forest ride, took my 3yr old cob to spectate, a girl on a lovely grey, carried a whip and wore spurs, at every stride it was dig with the spurs and a crack with the whip and that apparently went on for the full ride, no one who rides my horses get to carry a whip, they don't need it, if I see our grandkids yanking on mouths, I put them on a lead rein, take away the reins and make them use their legs, strangely, they love coming to visit
 
Our shetland teaches the kids how to stop properly. I refuse to bit him up from his french link, as he stops perfectly so long as they sit deep and ask properly with a nice half-halt.

If they perch and yank he tanks. They soon learn. :D
 
Have to say I used a gag & crop on my gelding when I first got him, under the guidance of my instructor whom I had a lesson with every week, though I hate using it as I feel it's so strong. When I first got him if he wasn't bucking me off he was tanking around the arena. After he learned to not try & throw the rider constantly he was moved to a hanging snaffle, but I was advised not to go back to the original snaffle. Now I only carry the crop the encourage cars to give me more space when hacking, I don't use it on him & he's pretty reliable, though there is still the very odd day where the gag makes a reappearance if he decides it's a better idea to jump off the track & go full out bucking over the fields.
 
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