Killing a horse is not murder!

cptrayes

cptrayes

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I wish people would stop, on various threads, referring to killing a horse humanely as murder.

Murder is killing a human.

Using it to refer to euthanasing a horse makes light of murdering a human being. The two are simply not comparable.
 
sorry but I consider taking a baby from it's mother and killing it for no other reason than it being unwanted murder. But alls well that ends well :)
 
Rhodders said:
sorry but I consider taking a baby from it's mother and killing it for no other reason than it being unwanted murder. But alls well that ends well :)
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It's the word that's the issue I believe as it is defined by the killing of a human, by a human of sound mind. It's not something I get hung up on unless it is being used to create guilt where someone is trying to be responsible....then I just find it crass.
 
No matter how wrong anyone thinks killing an animal is it is NOT murder. As above, murder is the unlawful killing of a human. To me it just makes people look childish or ignorant when they misuse the word.
 
Euthanizing a horse is not murder.
However when you hear of those horses being stabbed to death, pushed out of a moving wagon etc, it is, in my eyes, pretty similar.

p.s whats unwanted murder? I thought all murder was unwanted?
 
dominobrown said:
p.s whats unwanted murder? I thought all murder was unwanted?
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If you mean the post from Rhodders, I'm taking it to mean "to take an unwanted baby" - and where the word "baby" is referring to a new-born animal, e.g. foal, rather than a human baby. Very emotive wording, and not helpful to those who are having to make difficult decisions.
 
_GG_ said:
It's the word that's the issue I believe as it is defined by the killing of a human, by a human of sound mind. It's not something I get hung up on unless it is being used to create guilt where someone is trying to be responsible....then I just find it crass.
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This.

'The unlawful killing of a reasonable person in being, under the King's peace, with malice aforethought'

As truly appalling as the situation is, it's being cruel to be kind.

Ax
 
Silly, silly people - these are the sort that should NOT be keeping horses, poor things suffering at the hands of numpties because they will not PTS.
 
maisie06 said:
Silly, silly people - these are the sort that should NOT be keeping horses, poor things suffering at the hands of numpties because they will not PTS.
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Very true. Death is mostly a matter of timing. We are all going to die, even baby horses die. It is mostly a question of when and how -- and the quality of life until that moment arrives.

As Woody Allen said, "It is not the passing but the manner of the passing".
 
Rhodders said:
sorry but I consider taking a baby from it's mother and killing it for no other reason than it being unwanted murder. But alls well that ends well :)
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But language doesn't work like that, does it? Words have specific meanings, listed in the dictionary. You can't unilaterally change that meaning because you' "consider" it to mean something else. In fact, it weakens the very point you strongly want to make IMO, by making you look rather silly.
 
maisie06 said:
Silly, silly people - these are the sort that should NOT be keeping horses, poor things suffering at the hands of numpties because they will not PTS.
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I believe the thread that this refers to ended well and good luck to all of them involved.
I'm no bunny hugger and will pts if need be not just ill horses but I still found it harsh letting a mare foal then pts the foal at birth.
 
whilst not a cheerful thought, the OP in the original post was IMO right to consider PTS an option as she could not guarantee the foal a quality of life for a long period of time.

with un known breeding and lack of facilities stacked against it, the little mite had a low chance of finding a long term loving home in a world where even well bred and pro produced youngsters are going for a pittance.

there are worse fates than a clean quick death and some people need to wake up and grow up.
 
_GG_ said:
It's the word that's the issue I believe as it is defined by the killing of a human, by a human of sound mind. It's not something I get hung up on unless it is being used to create guilt where someone is trying to be responsible....then I just find it crass.
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Agree completely!
 
Prince33Sp4rkle said:
whilst not a cheerful thought, the OP in the original post was IMO right to consider PTS an option as she could not guarantee the foal a quality of life for a long period of time.

with un known breeding and lack of facilities stacked against it, the little mite had a low chance of finding a long term loving home in a world where even well bred and pro produced youngsters are going for a pittance.

there are worse fates than a clean quick death and some people need to wake up and grow up.
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Absolutely, I wouldn't take on the foal in question if I wanted to make money off it or couldn't offer it long term security.
I have said before on this forum that I have plans in place in my will that cover what will happen to any and all of my horses in the event that I die or become otherwise unable to care for them. I have a few lifelong friends that are highly experienced that have agreed to taken them on, but there is a chain and if that chain reached its end, all horses would be humanely destroyed and not passed on to anyone else. Anyone who has read the link in my signature will know how I feel about the whole situation and like I said on the other thread, I don't think it is right to criticise the motivation for putting to sleep a foal in such circumstances. Responsibility has a hefty price tag...and it's an emotional one, but it's cross that people should bear to save a physical or mental welfare price tag for the horses in their care.

The use of the word "murder" in theses circumstances is highly unpalatable to me. It is guilt driven and completely detracts from the realities of the situation and the difficulties faced by the owner.
 
It's a shame that killing a horse provokes such an immediate violent response of disgust
The chain of overbreeding and/or casual cruelty that can lead to multiple trips through the sale ring and unsuitable homes (which is sadly a hell a lot of horses in this country are going through), all the way through to abandonment, neglect, starvation and outright abuse... is where the real problem lies.
I guess it's because we hold out the chance of redemption in the latter. I just have a feeling the numbers caught in that system are far more than we realise; there just aren't enough homes and that circle cannot be squared.
 
bakewell said:
It's a shame that killing a horse provokes such an immediate violent response of disgust
The chain of overbreeding and/or casual cruelty that can lead to multiple trips through the sale ring and unsuitable homes (which is sadly a hell a lot of horses in this country are going through), all the way through to abandonment, neglect, starvation and outright abuse... is where the real problem lies.
I guess it's because we hold out the chance of redemption in the latter. I just have a feeling the numbers caught in that system are far more than we realise; there just aren't enough homes and that circle cannot be squared.
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Moomin1 gets a lot of flack on here a lot of the time but I never flinch when she is sometimes a bit blunt as I know exactly where she is coming. She, like me has been heavily involved in welfare for many years and unlike me, she still is. When you have to bear witness to so much unnecessary sadness, cruelty, neglect and sometimes unspeakable violence, it does give a sense of desperation for people to wake up and smell the roses because not every situation can come to a happy solution. We as man, created the problem....so we now have to be responsible and stop the suffering.
 
_GG_ said:
Moomin1 gets a lot of flack on here a lot of the time but I never flinch when she is sometimes a bit blunt as I know exactly where she is coming. She, like me has been heavily involved in welfare for many years and unlike me, she still is. When you have to bear witness to so much unnecessary sadness, cruelty, neglect and sometimes unspeakable violence, it does give a sense of desperation for people to wake up and smell the roses because not every situation can come to a happy solution. We as man, created the problem....so we now have to be responsible and stop the suffering.
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Unfortunately photos etc create a bit of distance on this. Most people have never seen (or smelt etc) situations of terrible cruelty. When you have people dying on tv it does create a disassociation with the reality of the situation when portrayed through the media.

I think there is a tendency to think unwanted horses sit in the rspca centre and then ideal companion homes come along and they frolic in the meadow all day. Plus we have such limited understanding of the impact of that last gasp rescue situation on the mental state of a prey animal.
This is not to condemn rescue etc at all obviously, but it's a very small plaster on a massive wound.

It's a shame that everyone who gets a horse hasn't been to a lower end sale ring and seen the pens of unwanted youngsters. There's enough tales of famous racers, polo ponies etc ending up there that it could happen to any horse. Even though it's quite a lightweight shocker comparatively I think it might create more understanding.
Also of the reality of how bad it has to be before welfare will step in and seize animals.

I would apologise for being depressing but the situation is untenable.
 
i personally could nt pts a healthy horse. I could nt live with myself.
Having said that we are not all the same and if everyone was as soft as me we would be in a right mess.
the use of the word murder to humanely pts is over the top and naive.
 
luckyoldme said:
i personally could nt pts a healthy horse. I could nt live with myself.
Having said that we are not all the same and if everyone was as soft as me we would be in a right mess.
the use of the word murder to humanely pts is over the top and naive.
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That's all fine provided you have the facilities and income to keep them. If not, then what?
 
This thread seems to have changed from the OP's point with I believe to have been about a language error, to a discussion about another thread and topic altogether. :confused3:
 
I think a big part of my issue with putting down a healthy foal would be the effect on the mare. Even maidens can be very attached pretty much straight away so in this case if the foal's future couldn't be guaranteed I would much rather abort the foal if possible.
 
Lolita said:
I realise murder is only supposed to be used for killing a human being but really why does it matter what language is used?
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Precise use of language conveys intellect, an intelligent reasoned thought process, accuracy of information.
Essentially where you're going is "I raped my mare with AI" and we can all regard that as silly, hysterical and inaccurate. I hope.
 
Because "murder" is an emotive word. It has certain connotations associated with it (violent, harrowing, undignified etc).

The killing of livestock, be it for whatever reason, is not murder. You can call it "slaughter" or "destruction" if you want to use emotive terminology; though "culling" would probably be more correct.
 
bakewell said:
Precise use of language conveys intellect, an intelligent reasoned thought process, accuracy of information.
Essentially where you're going is "I raped my mare with AI" and we can all regard that as silly, hysterical and inaccurate. I hope.
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Bit of an exaggeration, everyone knows what someone means when they say murder. I don't really understand being so picky.
 
Lolita said:
I realise murder is only supposed to be used for killing a human being but really why does it matter what language is used?
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Because if you want to make a point about something you care about, it's important your argument makes sense. Using the wrong words weakens your point to most people, and gives the appearance you don't know what you're talking about.
 
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