King Cotton Gold - what do people think?

eventrider23

eventrider23

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On paper I ADORE this stallion, what with him being directly a son of Cavalier Royale and out of a Samiel mare, making him related to Mill Law on the dam line. However, in the flesh I was not blown away by him as I thought I would be.

What do people think of him? Has he got any progeny on the ground yet?
 
I saw him at Hartpury's stallion parade and liked his temperament. We have then watched his results on BE which started well but then tailed off. I would certainly be interested in seeing any progeny
 
His record would put me off, especially given he's a 12 year old.
2 horse falls on his record, including 1 at PN. I want to breed an eventer with a sense of self preservation!
 
TheMule said:
His record would put me off, especially given he's a 12 year old.
2 horse falls on his record, including 1 at PN. I want to breed an eventer with a sense of self preservation!
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Yes, but can't any horse fall occasionally? So much to take into account for a fall. Heaven forbid it should be partially rider error. That's what they say isn't it? If the combination wins it is all down to the jockey, if it loses - blame the nag.

Surely it doesn't automatically make them clumsy oafs that are going to pass the trait on. Perhaps using a mare that has never hit the deck, should go, in part, to neutralising the fault.
 
I was going to say that anything can cause a horse fall....you can never, without having been there, know the circumstances that caused it....could have been something as simple as ground conditions causing the fall. That said, Jomiln I am interested you like him at Hartpury as that is where i too saw him. I loved his temperament, that was never a question, but he just didn't scream stallion to me and I so dearly wanted him to given his amazing pedigree. I am definitely not ruling him out though and would love to see what foals he produces.
 
I thought he had a lovely temperament at Hartpury and was a total sweetie in the stable (one of the only stallions not tied up in his stable), he is nicely put together but agree no WOW.

I don't think I would use him if aiming to breed an eventer as such, more to breed a nice riding club alrounder.
 
That was my impression of him Millitiger.....no WOW...and yes, the sort to make nice RC horses.....I guess that goes to show you can have all the pedigree in the world.....
 
I discounted because of the exact same reason when I saw him at Addington, no WOW factor unlike say Legrande. Also he did not have enough movement for the mare in mind. For some unknown reason, & I am going to blame the menopause, I wrote his name down on the bidding slip! And with the negative comments I doubt I will be able to sell it on for very much. Oh well, that's life.
 
I saw him at SSGB and thought he looked a nice sort but he wasn't presented as well as he could have been so it was hard to truly assess him. His rider tried to ride dressage in a jumping saddle which threw her weight backwards so much that when she entered the arena I wondered if he had a para rider on his back! His dressage display was not good, because of the saddle the rider couldn't gather him together (most of the time her reins were like washing lines) and he was such a good boy he toddled around looking after her. I think he could tell she was out of balance and so he didn't use any oomph and his paces consequently looked very stilted. I'm not criticising the rider BTW, no one would have been able to ride effectively with long stirrups in that saddle. It is just unfortunate that she tried to do so at the display. Once she took off her top hat and tails and shortened her stirrups it was clear she was a decent jockey and King Cotton Gold looked honest and able over the fences with a good gallop on him.

He has gone on my "see what he does and what he produces" list. He might be very nice, he certainly has outstanding bloodlines.
 
Everyone has spoken of about his bloodlines & his sire Cavalier Royale needs no introduction, but his dam? Yes she is by Samiel who sired Mill Law, Ballyhaise & Red Marshall, but she does not seem to have done much either herself or as a broodmare, ie no other offspring out at a decent level. According to the stud card she is ex of Cherry Gold who was by a Clydsdale stallion Muirton Security ex of Kinnegar. Breeding of Kinnegar I have not found anything on as yet. So the top half of the dams breeding is ok, but not sure. It is my error & I just have to get on with it, but I dont think he will improve on her enough for what we wanted. King's Leap the sire of Samiel is by Princely Gift, who was also the sire of King's Troop the sire of her grd dam, (not close enough to bother me). I saw a Utube video of him jumping & he looked honest. Temperment, yes he was lovely, but so were quiet a few others. Does anyone know if he has any offspring about? I kinda go the impression 2010 was his 1st season at public stud.
 
I really liked him in the stable at Addington and liked the fact he was small as most stallions now days are huge! I too love his breeding, but he did nothing for me as a stallion under saddle. He didn't even track up properly in trot. I suppose I would use him if trying to breed a pc type horse. For me I wouldn't have looked twice at him in passing, as a gelding let alone a stallion. Shall see what progeny he produces and may have to eat my words!
 
He was one I wanted to see at SSGB, and sadly although he was a lovely person he did fail to impress me - as Sare Bear said he didn't even track up in trot.

Undoubtedly a very sweet and genuine sort, he would be the horse I'd like to end up with not what I would breed from.

I also wondered why he never bred anything in Ireland.

AFAIK he has one foal due this spring
 
sare_bear said:
I really liked him in the stable at Addington and liked the fact he was small as most stallions now days are huge! I too love his breeding, but he did nothing for me as a stallion under saddle. He didn't even track up properly in trot. I suppose I would use him if trying to breed a pc type horse. For me I wouldn't have looked twice at him in passing, as a gelding let alone a stallion. Shall see what progeny he produces and may have to eat my words!
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Agree 100%

He was the one I liked least of the lot. My friend and I did wonder whether he was stallion material at all.

Might also have to eat my words ;)
 
God I hope we do get to eat our words, but I have a horrible feeling that we wont. At least the rest of you are not stuck with do I just right this off, or go with it! I just dont like going against my gut feeling & plus there is going to be all hell in the household as it means we cant go with our choice. I bet no one else even put in a bid for him! I just dont understand why I wrote his name down, I really must be loosing the plot!!

PS - Sorry to his connections, I shouldnt diss him on a public forum.
 
Hmmm... dare I say this?!

Buy a little cheapie tb mare, nicely put together, kind temperament and put him to her. Don't use him on another mare if you'd rather use something else- it's too blooming expensive and risky to not end up with what you want!
 
His owner did a full page editorial on him in one of the freebie horse mags, can't remember which one, will see if I can find it. It was based on the fact that his temperament was excellent unlike some of the stallions his owner had seen at last year's stallion parade. To be fair, his owner also commented on her riding ability and that he kept/got her out of trouble in spite of her not because of her. Would agree, his breeding is interesting and did consider using him on one of our mares this year or next but see his stud fee is now £600 and I think there are much better stallions out there for less money. Just my opinion.
 
Magic I think he's a much better stallion than he appeared at the SSGB. His paces weren't shown because his rider was so out of balance when she was trying to ride like a dressage rider in a jumping saddle. Goodness knows why she did that, not only did it look bad, it has to have been very uncomfortable! I gave King Cotton Gold a big gold star for being so kind to her while she was riding in the long stirrups. If he had shown his true trot she would probably have fallen off because the saddle threw her so far backwards.

He is a very kind stallion. He has got good breeding. He has got a competition record. He is sound. Those are a lot more positives than can be said for some very big name stallions that aren't in this country. The worst that can happen if you use him is you get a kind, sound horse that someone will love very dearly. :)

Next year I hope he comes back to the stallion parade and is ridden with short stirrups all the time. Then he can be asked to show off his paces properly as well as going over the jumps. If he really does have dressage quality paces he can stay till the Sunday and be shown in a dressage saddle too just as Legrande was. I think he's a nice stallion who wasn't given a fair chance to show how nice he is.
 
Well my daughter says this is fate & with next year being the Olympics with everyone going for Gold we should stick with him. So if everything goes to plan next year we could have our own Olympic Gold.
 
We looked into him quite abit last season but decided to wait to see how he does. the lady that owns him hasnt had him all that long, the story is something like she has something by cavalier royale and it died (possibly?!) and an old man owned this stallion and one persuaded the other to have him, that is why he hasnt done much for his age.
 
I thought he moved much better at last years Hartpury stallion parade when I saw him. Perhaps it was just not his day at the weekend. All horses can have a bad day every now and again when they are not at their best.
 
cruiseline said:
I thought he moved much better at last years Hartpury stallion parade when I saw him. Perhaps it was just not his day at the weekend. All horses can have a bad day every now and again when they are not at their best.
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I think the problem is your boy was such a gent, but under saddle he has that wow factor & he has the presence of a stallion. Without sounding like I'm licking ar'@e Legrande has the whole package, not just part. It was wrong of me to knock KCG on a public forum based on a short time seeing him.
 
I have found the article written by KCG's owner in the August 2010 edition of Equi-Ads magazine. If anyone would like a copy, please let me know and I will scan it and e-mail it over. Hasten to add that I do not have any connection with the horse, just that I saw the thread and had considered him for my own mare.
 
Is the genetic potential of this horse likely to influence its offspring much?

Just wondering, because for example in racing you have 100's of poorly performing stallions by the great saddlers wells. They are used as stallions for racing and their progeny cant run a yard. Its only the ones that have performed well themselves & have a strong damline that has also performed, that actually seem to pass on the goods. But I may be wrong & it may not be as black and white as that.
 
Is the genetic potential of this horse likely to influence its offspring much

No probably not, all I have found out so far is the dam is mentioned in IHB ISH mare book as being by Samiel who himself has some successful offspring eventing. Her dam is not recorded except on the SSH grading sheet & KCG's stud card and that states Cherry Gold
by Muirton Security who was a Clydesdale stallion & winner of the Cawdor Cup. Her dam is listed as Kinnegar, no idea what she is.

Cherry Red has no competition record that I can find, but without knowing her circumstances who is to say she was not a capable performer. It makes no odds now we are going to stick by him, as it has been pointed out he looks to be an honest horse & that is worth something. 2 sets of grading panels passed him, so he must have something that appeals.
 
I think honesty counts for a lot more sometimes...I would rather breed a ridable and therefore sellable horse that will try his heart out for you than a sharp one only a pro could ride if you get what I mean.
 
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