Kissing Gates and horses

[Mule]

It's interesting the differences between cultures in different countries. There is no right to roam where I live. The farmers would wouldn't stand for it. Private property would be the main reason but unfortunately the claims culture is out of control. People sue the council for all sorts. I couldn't see land owners ever agreeing to risk that.

 

[pippixox]

sending multiple complaints to the council and getting them to install a rader key gate should solve both problems- DofE idiots can climb a style, disabled access is still upheld (of course they could leave the gate open, but I am assuming they are more sensible then DofE teenagers and sounds like there will not be many due to the difficulty of the field)

pretty sure we had to use one when I worked at a special needs school to access an accessible walk at snelsmore common in west Berkshire as they have wild horses. but the kissing gates are a struggle with a buggy and impossible with a wheel chair.

people can get their own radar key normally from the council library

everyone has a right of access, but it is terrible and dangerous that livestock have escaped numerous times thanks to stupid hikers.

 

[pippixox]

It's interesting the differences between cultures in different countries. There is no right to roam where I live. The farmers would wouldn't stand for it. Private property would be the main reason but unfortunately the claims culture is out of control. People sue the council for all sorts. I couldn't see land owners ever agreeing to risk that.

I find England is 'interesting': there seem to be a lot of historic footpaths through peoples property that people have a right to access. but the level of how maintained they are can be terrible. I have followed a footpath, only to find the other end of the field has got no clear exit, despite certainly following the footpath arrow. had to climb a dodgy gate and lift a heavy collie over, with a child on my back!

I am all for footpaths, but no the idiots who cannot simply follow the code of shutting gates behind you if it was shut when you got there. no respect.

 

[Nasicus]

sending multiple complaints to the council and getting them to install a rader key gate should solve both problems- DofE idiots can climb a style, disabled access is still upheld (of course they could leave the gate open, but I am assuming they are more sensible then DofE teenagers and sounds like there will not be many due to the difficulty of the field)

people can get their own radar key normally from the council library

That's a very good idea! You can get Radar keys online too through the relevant channels. I have one myself, but that's for IBS Emergencies.

 

[Jill's Gym Karma]

That's a shame, the DofE teens I've encountered at RDA volunteering have been really mature and sensible.

I would be tempted to put a really official looking sign up saying something like "Leaving gates open, even temporarily, is a serious breach of countryside rules and will result in the whole group failing the award".

 

[sport horse]

That's a shame, the DofE teens I've encountered at RDA volunteering have been really mature and sensible.

I would be tempted to put a really official looking sign up saying something like "Leaving gates open, even temporarily, is a serious breach of countryside rules and will result in the whole group failing the award".[/QUOTE

Except it is not up to me to enforce any rules and in 2019 it politically incorrect to allow anyone to 'fail' anything. There must be no winners and no losers. Apart from that the horses eat any signs!!

 

[Pippity]

Flipping heck, that kind of thinking would have me banned from entering the paddock with my own horses in! So only able bodied people can accept the risk of being around animals? We'd better tell the RDA to cease and desist!

Last year, I sailed a tall ship across the Atlantic. One of our watch leaders used a wheelchair, but was still able to get up the mast and help with setting sails. Our best helmsman was blind. On a previous voyage, one of the most experienced sailors had a serious brain injury that left him unable to talk, but he still found ways to help teach the rest of the crew.

Don't discount disabled people. We can do a lot.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Now hang on a moment Pippity, I'm really hoping that you misread my post. Where did I discount disabled people? Please point it out.

I am disabled and certainly do not underestimate disabled people. I was responding to and quoted post number 14 in which Sports Horse wrote 'I do question whether walking through large livestock fields if you have physical limitations, visual issues etc etc is actually very safe'.

As I said, I have physical limitations. I also have horses and enter their field daily. It is SH who questions if this is OK, not me. I was trying (and typically failing) to say how ridiculous this was by pointing out that the RDA has that combination of disabled people and large livestock and that it is just silly to say that only able bodied people should be allowed to be around animals.

 

[sport horse]

I think there is a difference between having your own animals, being part of a RDA group with multiple handlers and walking through a 17 acre field with animals - be they horses, cattle etc, that you do not know and are not supervised. Technically, I suspect the landowner is responsible should there be an accident, but the landowner/farmer cannot be responsible for watching their stock 24/7.
Nor is it always possible to fence off paths when they go across fields - in my case the slopes of the field would make it dangerous to fence the path. The fence would run across the slope of the hill which would be very dangerous to any stock running down the hill and it would be impossible to drive a tractor for grassland management with no flat area to make turns. The local authorities are totally unwilling to permit diversions around the edge.

This particular path originated for local villagers - all of whom would have been involved in agriculture - to walk to church. Today's use is very different as many of the users have not got experience in animal behaviour - I have even caught people sledging in the winter, way off the path and with the horses joining in! Luckily no one was hurt and I removed all the horses to permit the youngsters to have fun in the snow. I also asked them to check in future if the animals were out before any winter sports!

It is a real problem and I have no wish to prevent access but I do need to be able to farm my own land without risk of being sued for damages or having my animals let loose around the district. It does need a joined up conversation between all the parties but that does not seem to be a possibility.

 

[Leo Walker]

Now hang on a moment Pippity, I'm really hoping that you misread my post. Where did I discount disabled people? Please point it out.

I am disabled and certainly do not underestimate disabled people. I was responding to and quoted post number 14 in which Sports Horse wrote 'I do question whether walking through large livestock fields if you have physical limitations, visual issues etc etc is actually very safe'.

As I said, I have physical limitations. I also have horses and enter their field daily. It is SH who questions if this is OK, not me. I was trying (and typically failing) to say how ridiculous this was by pointing out that the RDA has that combination of disabled people and large livestock and that it is just silly to say that only able bodied people should be allowed to be around animals.

I think she was agreeing with your post FC!

 

[Leo Walker]

I am extremely sympathetic to those with disabilities however I do question whether walking through large livestock fields if you have physical limitations, visual issues etc etc is actually very safe. Can you make animals 100% safe? The answer to that has to be 'No'.

I am absolutely astounded at the level of ignorance shown in this post.

Why do you think its ok for you to decide what people can and cant do?

 

[MurphysMinder]

The local footpath group have recently replaced stiles with kissing gate in the field my horses are in. I was pleased to see the kissing gates, as despite walking 7 odd miles a day, and competing in dog agility, a dodgy hip/knee mean I struggle with stiles. However I was concerned about the horses getting stuck in the pen bit, to avoid this I have just made a small corral with electric fence and tape round the gate so the horses cant get too close. Its not electric so no issue for walkers, but as there is nothing particularly interesting beyond it the horses don't try and push through.

 

[ester]

I also think she was agreeing with you FC! I'm pretty surprised by some of the assertions about disabilities too.

I think you've had some excellent suggestions OP in order to maintain the current level of access but not have your horses getting out. Even though just replacing the springs would also work.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Thank you for setting me right LW.

I'm very sorry Pippity for reading your reply incorrectly and then having a bit of a rant about it.

 

[sport horse]

I am absolutely astounded at the level of ignorance shown in this post.

Why do you think its ok for you to decide what people can and cant do?

May I invite you to come and walk this footpath, on crutches/in a wheel chair/ with any mobility/sight issues, possibly include a dog and a herd of cows/horses grazing. This is all 100% legal. When you have actually walked it and can tell me it is 100% safe then I will believe you.

At no point have I said that I am planning to restrict access, in fact I am trying to find solutions to a real problem. ie to give access to all who require it, and also to keep my horses and cattle safe. When they escape they can get out onto the highway and very quickly on to a dual carriageway. The resulting carnage is too awful to contemplate.

Please take up my offer to come and survey the problem. I am around 7 days/week/52 weeks / year because I farm. I am one hour from London on top of the Chiltern Hills and could meet you at any train station. I have not 'decided' anything so please get off your high horse. I am totally supportive of all disabilites but I also possess some common sense and realise that I have a problem that needs careful thought.

I look forward to seeing you very soon.

 

[ester]

Please go and have a go with your mobility and sight issues Leo, I reckon you'd ace it.

So what did you think of the radar key solution SH? The only response I see about it is whether the council would supply the gate, you have a council-supplied gate already you only need to add a lock to it?

Horses secure, access maintained, everyone happy.

 

[sport horse]

Please go and have a go with your mobility and sight issues Leo, I reckon you'd ace it.

So what did you think of the radar key solution SH? The only response I see about it is whether the council would supply the gate, you have a council-supplied gate already you only need to add a lock to it?

Horses secure, access maintained, everyone happy.

I have been trying to get hold of the council rights of way officer for three days - so far no luck. I think if it possible to put a stile and a radar gate that could well solve everyone's problems and that has always been my wish. I had actually never heard of a radar key before so this forum has helped and I thank everyone for that.

I am not so keen on the critical comments from those who have no idea of the land situation or of me. I have spent several years disabled with a major injury myself and I also have a wheelchair bound relative so I do understand the problems of people with disability. However in this age of the sueing and blame culture it is tricky for landowners toget things right especially when people make snide comments without knowing the facts. Lets hope Leo does come out as invited.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

The thing is SH, disability covers such a huge range of issues that there will be people who are disabled, but can cope with steep terrain but may also prefer a gate to a style.

Being sensible around cows has nothing to do with being disabled or not.

 

[sport horse]

The thing is SH, disability covers such a huge range of issues that there will be people who are disabled, but can cope with steep terrain but may also prefer a gate to a style.

Being sensible around cows has nothing to do with being disabled or not.

So please answer the original question, how do I keep my stock safely in my field? I have had one or two very good suggestions which am trying to follow up. I have also tried to have a common sense conversation regarding the issues but as usual with this forum there is a huge amount of straying from the point..

Let us see whether my offer to visit is taken up not only by Leo Walker, or indeed by anyone else who might have some constructive suggestions.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

You are the one who questioned the safety of disabled people using the footpath. You cannot post such a remark on a public forum and not expect someone to pick up on it. Disabled access is such an important thing that is still very much lacking in many areas.

I do not need to answer the original question to be able to post on the thread.

 

[ester]

just for the record most people who use one really hate the term 'wheelchair bound'.

 

[sport horse]

just for the record most people who use one really hate the term 'wheelchair bound'.

I am so sorry - it is absolutely impossible not to use the wrong word these days as it is a constantly changing scene and everyone has a great desire to be offended. Please correct me as to the correct terminology to describe someone who cannot move without a wheelchair. My relative is in the later stages of MS and cannot even get in and out of his chair without being lifted. He has never suggested he is offended by being descibed as wheelchair bound.

I actually started this thread by trying to help everyone. I have now been subjected to a list of criticisms. I wont do it because I am a better person, but I can quite understand why landowners take umbrage and just build awkward stiles etc.

 

[ester]

user seems to be preferred over 'bound'.

I genuinely don't see a list of criticisms at all, but lots of helpful suggestions.

 

[Pippity]

Now hang on a moment Pippity, I'm really hoping that you misread my post. Where did I discount disabled people? Please point it out.

I am disabled and certainly do not underestimate disabled people. I was responding to and quoted post number 14 in which Sports Horse wrote 'I do question whether walking through large livestock fields if you have physical limitations, visual issues etc etc is actually very safe'.

As I said, I have physical limitations. I also have horses and enter their field daily. It is SH who questions if this is OK, not me. I was trying (and typically failing) to say how ridiculous this was by pointing out that the RDA has that combination of disabled people and large livestock and that it is just silly to say that only able bodied people should be allowed to be around animals.

Oh, I'm so sorry I wasn't clear! I was agreeing with you, not disagreeing!

 

[Pippity]

I am so sorry - it is absolutely impossible not to use the wrong word these days as it is a constantly changing scene and everyone has a great desire to be offended. Please correct me as to the correct terminology to describe someone who cannot move without a wheelchair. My relative is in the later stages of MS and cannot even get in and out of his chair without being lifted. He has never suggested he is offended by being descibed as wheelchair bound.

Just to explain the preference for 'user' over 'bound' - for a user, the wheelchair is a tool that gives more freedom, not something restrictive. 'Bound' tends to be something that a non-user thinks - "Oh, look at that poor person, stuck in a wheelchair." For somebody who actually uses one, it's the tool that gives them freedom to leave their home.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Oh, I'm so sorry I wasn't clear! I was agreeing with you, not disagreeing!

Don't worry, LW explained my mistake to me. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Leo Walker]

I actually started this thread by trying to help everyone. I have now been subjected to a list of criticisms. I wont do it because I am a better person, but I can quite understand why landowners take umbrage and just build awkward stiles etc.

No, you started this thread in an attempt to help yourself and in the process came out with some utterly ignorant nonsense, which it would seem you have taken umbrage on being commented on. Whether you like it or not, what you said was ignorant , and rather than apologise you have continued to try and justify why you are right. For the record, you are not right.

And thank you for your kind and clearly sincere offer, but I'll have to decline. I have my fill of this sort of thing on a daily basis so I'm just not prepared to go out and seek more of it. However, I will happily point you in the direction of these people:

https://disabledramblers.co.uk/

I am sure they will be happy to advise or signpost you on if its outside of their remit.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I think you are very tolerant. If mine had been let out a time or two I would fence off the footpath to whatever width is allowed for a footpath. So people can walk through a channel through the countryside and not interfere with my animals.

How is your insurance with having a public right of way through the field? I know a friend had awful problems getting theirs insured, both for third party reasons but also for straying.

This is what my friend did after her horses ran over someone's small dog that strayed off the path.

 

[sport horse]

No, you started this thread in an attempt to help yourself and in the process came out with some utterly ignorant nonsense, which it would seem you have taken umbrage on being commented on. Whether you like it or not, what you said was ignorant , and rather than apologise you have continued to try and justify why you are right. For the record, you are not right.

And thank you for your kind and clearly sincere offer, but I'll have to decline. I have my fill of this sort of thing on a daily basis so I'm just not prepared to go out and seek more of it. However, I will happily point you in the direction of these people:

https://disabledramblers.co.uk/

I am sure they will be happy to advise or signpost you on if its outside of their remit.

I am sorry that you are not able to take me up on my offer. Thank you for the link. I think I will stick with the County Rights of Way as they will know the best solution and will work for every stakeholder.

Thank you to everyone who offered helpful advice. I think the radar gate is well worth investigating.