Kissing spine ‘lig-snip’

[Carol Wingmer]

Hi.

I’m looking at buying a horse (16hh, 12yo TB) who’s had the kissing spine op (lig-snip) in October last year. Would you buy it? How does this affect her value?

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Hi.

I’m looking at buying a horse (16hh, 12yo TB) who’s had the kissing spine op (lig-snip) in October last year. Would you buy it? How does this affect her value?

Would I? No, but that's me and I'm probably stupidly picky.

However, if the horse had the lig snip done and has been in the work you want it to perform, successfully, since then, and is doing well, then she might be one to consider. IMO it should decrease the value. How much? I'm not sure. She shouldn't be as much as other horses equal in age, type, breed, and experience.

 

[Laurac13]

How long has the horse been back in full work? Is it cheap? I think you would need to regularly work the horse carefully to keep the top line but I don’t have personal experience hope others can advise

 

[Carol Wingmer]

Would I? No, but that's me and I'm probably stupidly picky.

However, if the horse had the lig snip done and has been in the work you want it to perform, successfully, since then, and is doing well, then she might be one to consider. IMO it should decrease the value. How much? I'm not sure. She shouldn't be as much as other horses equal in age, type, breed, and experience.

Would I? No, but that's me and I'm probably stupidly picky.

However, if the horse had the lig snip done and has been in the work you want it to perform, successfully, since then, and is doing well, then she might be one to consider. IMO it should decrease the value. How

Would I? No, but that's me and I'm probably stupidly picky.

However, if the horse had the lig snip done and has been in the work you want it to perform, successfully, since then, and is doing well, then she might be one to consider. IMO it should decrease the value. How much? I'm not sure. She shouldn't be as much as other horses equal in age, type, breed, and experience.

up for 6k! That’s so helpful thank you!

 

[Melody Grey]

No personal experience of taking on a lig snip horse but do have KS rehab experience.
If it’s doing the job you want and a vet is happy with it, I’d buy at a reduced cost.

The horse will likely always need to be kept in work and worked correctly and may cost you more in physio, so that’s worth keeping in mind. KS almost always comes with other bio mechanical complaints in my experience (suspensories, hocks, foot balance issues), so worth checking the horse is fully sound and not displaying any of these. Also consider insurance ramifications; anything considered linked to it may not be covered.....and that could be a lot of things!

 

[Carol Wingmer]

Would you say 6k is too much? ThTs so helpful thank you!

 

[sbloom]

I think we will find that long term these horses suffer postural/strength issues. Some will fare better than others, but I'd prefer a horse that had been posturally rehabbed and I was prepared to keep following the same, or similar, programme.

 

[Carol Wingmer]

I think we will find that long term these horses suffer postural/strength issues. Some will fare better than others, but I'd prefer a horse that had been posturally rehabbed and I was prepared to keep following the same, or similar, programme.

 

[Carol Wingmer]

Completely agree

 

[ThreeWBs]

No personal experience of taking on a lig snip horse but do have KS rehab experience.
If it’s doing the job you want and a vet is happy with it, I’d buy at a reduced cost.

The horse will likely always need to be kept in work and worked correctly and may cost you more in physio, so that’s worth keeping in mind. KS almost always comes with other bio mechanical complaints in my experience (suspensories, hocks, foot balance issues), so worth checking the horse is fully sound and not displaying any of these. Also consider insurance ramifications; anything considered linked to it may not be covered.....and that could be a lot of things!

This!

 

[Darkly_Dreaming_Dex]

No personal experience of taking on a lig snip horse but do have KS rehab experience.
If it’s doing the job you want and a vet is happy with it, I’d buy at a reduced cost.

The horse will likely always need to be kept in work and worked correctly and may cost you more in physio, so that’s worth keeping in mind. KS almost always comes with other bio mechanical complaints in my experience (suspensories, hocks, foot balance issues), so worth checking the horse is fully sound and not displaying any of these. Also consider insurance ramifications; anything considered linked to it may not be covered.....and that could be a lot of things!

This^^ I had Harry snipped in 2011. He was very sound but gradually changed his gait to move more on three tracks if you watched him trotting towards you, vet said he’d adjusted to suit himself and if he was sound , happy at his job and not needing any medical intervention then keep going, he wasn’t a show or dressage horse so was my top class hunter and display horse until we lost him this year.

I would have another if my vet had full disclosure to speak to theirs and also for a hefty price reduction

 

[My Boys M&D]

My horse has had a combination of the ligament snip and bone shaving surgery on his KS about 6 years ago now. He is so, so much better for it and has gone back to successfully competing at BE100 and Novice dressage. So from the point of view of being able to do a job, he can absolutely do what I bought him for.

However, I do have to keep him in regular work, pay close attention to his posture/top line, get regular physio and am probably more quick than most to get the vet out if something isn't quite right. So the bills add up.

I will never sell him but I know if I did it would affect his price and I would vet the home thoroughly to make sure they were aware of his special requirements and would cosset him.

 

[Darkly_Dreaming_Dex]

I think we will find that long term these horses suffer postural/strength issues. Some will fare better than others, but I'd prefer a horse that had been posturally rehabbed and I was prepared to keep following the same, or similar, programme.

We are at that stage now, Harry was typical of what my vet and also the hospital has seen as a long term issue.. so his 4 ligament/vertebrae snip op went really well, rehabbed religiously & slowly and he was just amazing but then at around 3maybe 4 years post op,he started to move on three tracks so Re xrayed and you could see where the snip had allowed the spinal processes to gradually collapse sideways - so no classic KS impingement but now he physically couldn’t move in a 100% straight line - pass any flexion test etc but looked weird when trotting straight at you

 

[My Boys M&D]

I would also offer full vet disclosure to the buyer

 

[Carol Wingmer]

She’s up for 6k for reference!!

 

[Nasicus]

I wouldn't pay 6k, no chance, but then I wouldn't touch a KS horse full stop. And a year on is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Long term soundness is also very dependant on how strictly and thoroughly the rehab was adhered to post-op. You also need to consider why they've gone to the expense/time of the ligament snip and rehab, just to sell her on a year later. There could be a very valid reason, but who knows.

For what it's worth, I know of 4 horses that had the ligament snip. 3 were PTS within 2 years and 1 retired to be a broodmare. Very small sample, but enough to put me off personally.

 

[Ratface]

In this instance, I would pass on the opportunity to purchase the horse. For me, neither the price nor the horse is right.
I hope you find a more suitable horse soon.

 

[Darkly_Dreaming_Dex]

I wouldn't pay 6k, no chance, but then I wouldn't touch a KS horse full stop. And a year on is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Long term soundness is also very dependant on how strictly and thoroughly the rehab was adhered to post-op. You also need to consider why they've gone to the expense/time of the ligament snip and rehab, just to sell her on a year later. There could be a very valid reason, but who knows.

For what it's worth, I know of 4 horses that had the ligament snip. 3 were PTS within 2 years and 1 retired to be a broodmare. Very small sample, but enough to put me off personally.

Also agree with this^^
As my vet would say,Don’t buy trouble - it’s different if it’s a gift horse or one you already have!

Your experience of other horses is a fair sample - not many remain in full long term work and most deteriorate within 2-3 years which is why Harry was always of interest to the vet hospital (used to check in regularly on how he was) due to staying in work so long but it was a lot of hard work maintaining the best outline when riding and all the inhand physio- I’d give anything to have him back with all his issues but I wouldn’t knowingly take in another

 

[Nasicus]

Also agree with this^^
As my vet would say,Don’t buy trouble - it’s different if it’s a gift horse or one you already have!

Your experience of other horses is a fair sample - not many remain in full long term work and most deteriorate within 2-3 years which is why Harry was always of interest to the vet hospital (used to check in regularly on how he was) due to staying in work so long but it was a lot of hard work maintaining the best outline when riding and all the inhand physio- I’d give anything to have him back with all his issues but I wouldn’t knowingly take in another

Sounds like Harry was a good candidate for the surgery, not least because he had the ideal, dedicated owner

 

[ycbm]

I think we will find that long term these horses suffer postural/strength issues. Some will fare better than others, but I'd prefer a horse that had been posturally rehabbed and I was prepared to keep following the same, or similar, programme.

This. I've had one done I would never have it done to another. I would not buy one that close to it having been done, I'd want to see years of good work first.
.

 

[SOS]

All good points above but I’d also be concerned about if the horse was ridden slightly differently, had a slightly different routine, slightly different terrain (hill or flat), slightly different physio and exercises ec. That all these slightlys add up to the back muscle not being maintained the same way in the new home and the horse struggles.

What do you want the horse for? If it’s for doodling around hacking a KS horse probably isn’t for you as it would need to be ridden correctly all the time and have groundwork sessions to help maintain strength. If you want a horse for competing then can you ride the horse as correctly as how it’s being ridden now and has it come back very well to the level you would like to ride at?

KS is always a hard one as the theory is that lots of horses have it, are undiagnosed and seemingly fine in day to day life, but some suffer much more than others and must be strictly maintained and others can never tolerate ridden work. Retiring a KS horse away isn’t always simple either as sometimes no back strengthening work makes them struggle to even be field sound.

I’m swaying towards no.

 

[Annagain]

You can't really say yes or no to "is she worth £6K" without knowing how much she would be worth without it. Are we talking performing to a decent level (and is she now back performing at that level) or a nice low level all rounder? I'd have a look at what others doing things at the same level as her are selling for and work back from there.

 

[Carol Wingmer]

You can't really say yes or no to "is she worth £6K" without knowing how much she would be worth without it. Are we talking performing to a decent level (and is she now back performing at that level) or a nice low level all rounder? I'd have a look at what others doing things at the same level as her are selling for and work back from there.

 

[Carol Wingmer]

Low level all rounder - 90/100 horse! She’s not done 100 since her op

 

[Bellaboo18]

No chance.
I've never met a horse that *only* had kissing spine, it's always been secondary to something else.
A year after surgery is no time at all. I'd worry they've rushed the rehab to get her out competing and it will all come crumbling down. It's a huge, huge risk.

 

[Winters100]

No, I would not buy, and if I am really honest I would not even want him for free. You could be into a lot of cost, time and heartache, not to mention the cost of potential retirement. I know that many have successfully rehabbed horses with this, however to me it is one thing to have a horse with a problem, but quite another to buy one.

 

[Laurynb]

I bought my horse in Feb 21, diagnosed KS and operated July 21.
If the horse is everything you are looking for, I would have a full vet check and physio exam and have their opinion.
I personally would buy a horse with KS history again provided I knew this was the only issue, as others have said it is quite often a secondary issue.
They need to be worked correctly for the rest of their lives- but shouldn’t all horses be worked correctly regardless of injury?

 

[ycbm]

I bought my horse in Feb 21, diagnosed KS and operated July 21.
If the horse is everything you are looking for, I would have a full vet check and physio exam and have their opinion.
I personally would buy a horse with KS history again provided I knew this was the only issue, as others have said it is quite often a secondary issue.
They need to be worked correctly for the rest of their lives- but shouldn’t all horses be worked correctly regardless of injury?

I hope this works out well for you but you are only 4 months in so far, so not even really finished the rehab.

When you say your horse will need to be worked correctly for the rest of its life, that is true but it also means that it most likely must be worked for the rest of its life. Any holiday, any box rest for a different injury, could cause an issue.

I would never buy one knowing that was likely to be the case and certainly not for £6k I'm afraid.

 

[AmyMay]

Nope. Never. Not even for free.

 

[007Equestrian]

For some good news, my girl had the lig snip operation and came back better than ever. She’s now at Grand Prix level dressage. However, I honestly don’t think I’d buy one with a history of KS unless it was an exceptional horse / a schoolmaster and I could justify potentially having to retire them early.