Kissing spine, but no back pain? Experiences?

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JVB

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Just after experiences. I have ex racer on trial currently, after vetting my vet suggested having couple of xrays taken to rule out kissing spines as quite weak backend.

Now I think this horse is textbook ulcer sufferer, I have prodded, poked and tested back out as much as possible. He will work long and low and you can feel his back come up under you when working properly. He's not consistent but that's to be expected as only 6.

I suspect backend is tight and bit tucked up but again this could be the ulcers... he has no topline, fussy eater, bit lazy, sore points under girth area and behind ribs low down where goes soft...

I have him booked in for xrays next week, but I'm just wondering if others horses had kissing spines without any obvious signs of discomfort?

Hoping the xrays are ok as he's a really nice sort
 
Yes, my horse had ten spines touching or fused. I had had both a chiro and pyysio to him who both said his back was very good and not at all sore. I then had the vet check him and she too said there was no soreness in his back. His big problem was tacking up. He would allow you to saddle him and tighten the girth, but then when he tried to move straight after the girth was tightened, he would spasm all over his flanks and panic. Once you were riding him he was fine, good to mount etc. But gradually he became more and more reluctant to canter. Then one day after I had tightened the girth from on board, he exploded, rearing, bucking. I asked for xrays of his spine and found a very bad case of KS. He has since had an op to remove five of them and seemed to be doing very well until we had another episode of him exploding just after I tightened the girth a couple of months ago. He is currently on field rest and I plan to try again with him soon. I think if I fail, then I will have him scoped for ulcers.
 
Horses can have kissing spine for a long time without it causing them any bother.

But if they have it, it can be triggered by anything - funny movement in the field, different rider etc. So if something came up on xray, no way would I buy it.

I've personally known two horses that were absolutely fine for a while, no back pain etc, that suddenly started having problems and after xrays were diagnosed with KS. Each would have had it for a while, but not causing issues until triggered by something.
 
Thanks - interesting to hear, looks like I'll have to wait until the xrays then, although more I research more I find so wondering if it could also be sacroiliac joint related.

If he does have it he'll be going back, it's not something I'd be wanting to take on even if only very mild.
 
Probably not what you want to hear but I have just lost my beautiful horse to this and other things. He had active KS and fused KS which was already formed and settled. He also had arthritic changes in the sacro area too, plus other problems however, he never reacted to anything, was ridden up to diagnosis, never put a foot wrong. We only realised there was something 'wrong' as his personality changed, on the ground. After diagnosis and prognosis wasn't good enough to treat (other things that were wrong with him) he was retired, unfortunately he then went downhill fast. So please don't risk it and get the horse thoroughly checked.
 
JVB said:
Just after experiences. I have ex racer on trial currently, after vetting my vet suggested having couple of xrays taken to rule out kissing spines as quite weak backend.

Now I think this horse is textbook ulcer sufferer, I have prodded, poked and tested back out as much as possible. He will work long and low and you can feel his back come up under you when working properly. He's not consistent but that's to be expected as only 6.

I suspect backend is tight and bit tucked up but again this could be the ulcers... he has no topline, fussy eater, bit lazy, sore points under girth area and behind ribs low down where goes soft...

I have him booked in for xrays next week, but I'm just wondering if others horses had kissing spines without any obvious signs of discomfort?

Hoping the xrays are ok as he's a really nice sort
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Can I suggest that while you are there and have paid for the xray set up that you might also x-ray his neck if nothing shows in his spine? It should only cost you 2 or 3 additional xrays.

I have just lost a wobbler who had the classic C3/C4 birth deformity but it did not show until he was 10. That would also be something that could cause hind end weakness (because the nerves to the back legs are on the outside of the bundle in the neck).
 
Some studies have shown that up to 40% of horses have KS. Obviously most of these will never cause a problem. It is completely possible to have a horse with KS and no symptoms whatsoever.
 
To be honest I'm fine about it, I only had him on trial as there was nothing to lose, so it's no problem to send him back if he does have it, plenty of other horses out there, just shame for him as great attitude, if it helps here is an ok side pic so you can see what I mean by his backend...

100_2612-1.jpg
 
cptrayes said:
Can I suggest that while you are there and have paid for the xray set up that you might also x-ray his neck if nothing shows in his spine? It should only cost you 2 or 3 additional xrays.

I have just lost a wobbler who had the classic C3/C4 birth deformity but it did not show until he was 10. That would also be something that could cause hind end weakness (because the nerves to the back legs are on the outside of the bundle in the neck).
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Sorry to hear that, I lost a lovely 3yr old years ago to wobblers, horrible condition and such a shame
 
He has a jumpers bump ;) But is a nice horse otherwise, and a lovely colour.
The vet who diagnosed my horse said that a lot of horses had come in for issues in their hocks etc and got x-rays etc and found kissing spines, despite the horse being fine and it obviously wasn't a problem.
 
Sorry, missed that he's a TB.

There is some evidence that nearly all TBs have KS to some degree so if you want a TB you might struggle to find one without if you're going to x-ray them all!
 
jesstickle said:
Sorry, missed that he's a TB.

There is some evidence that nearly all TBs have KS to some degree so if you want a TB you might struggle to find one without if you're going to x-ray them all!
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I can totally see this happening, the xrays will come back with a very slight kissing spine and I'll be none the wiser on what to do!
 
Sorry OP, I'm not being helpful. Just thought you might like to know what I've found out trawling around as KS seems to be the new 'trendy' thing to worry about but it also seems to be incredibly common. At least from some studies anyway!

He looks a lovely chap. I hope he x-rays clear for you!
 
jesstickle said:
Sorry OP, I'm not being helpful. Just thought you might like to know what I've found out trawling around as KS seems to be the new 'trendy' thing to worry about but it also seems to be incredibly common. At least from some studies anyway!

He looks a lovely chap. I hope he x-rays clear for you!
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Hey, no need to apologize - I'm not emotional in the slightest about it, agree kissing spines does seem to be the condition of the moment, I almost feel as though I should have my other mare xrayed at the same time as chances are she'll have it to, heck prob most of the yard I'm on....

Not trivializing it as it's pretty nasty but can't help but wonder how we've managed for so many years without really knowing about it, you have to think that maybe it's riding in the first place that has led to so many having it, all the extra weight on back, who knows..
 
We just wouldn't have gone looking for it. Once upon a time if a horse underperformed for no obvious reason we gave them 6 months/ 12 months in the field etc rather than examining them to the nth degree! I think the theory is that in plenty of cases that is enough for the horse to recover at least in part.

And yep, a significant proportion probably do have it but chances are it isn't clinically significant. The studies I read were about clinically normal horses (ie no symptoms) and they still found incidences of up to 80% when they x-rayed.

And yep, most were in the area where the saddle sits. Although I think partly because they get narrower there anyway.

Any vets want to help me out yet?
 
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