Kissing spine - euthanasia

ycbm said:
Your vet has gone from putting her down to riding her? I would be seriously thinking about changing vets.


I'm pleased you got better news.
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Thank you, means a lot! I feel its bitter sweet though, im glad shes not a put down case but its still really rough and a long road for and for me emotionally.

He is a great vet and he said he stands by his decision. He said if the back was how the front started it wouldve been best for her. But the back half of the back was actually much stronger than any of us expected and gaps were clear. Its the front behind the withers and just before where the rider sits thats the bad. I have used him and many other vets for ten years and I trust him the most <3
 
I am also pleased that you have had better news, but if the front part of the spine was as bad as you say then I would not be looking at riding again regardless of the condition of the rest of the back. I'm not saying for a moment to ignore the vet, he is a specialist of course, but just to have a good think before you go ahead with things.

Having broken my back at L3 (I know you can't really compare human/horse, but regardless) and suffered with some nerve damage and compression, I know how crippling back pain can be and how a cold snap, or lying funny can near on cripple me some days. The thought of giving someone a piggy back brings tears to my eyes, and my injury, being two years ago now, is nowhere near as severe as your mares sounds from your OP - I have also had steroid injections, acupunture, 4 weekly Osteo, surgical pins and all sorts. So if she is a stoic as she sounds I would be really carefully considering her ridden future. There are a thousand horses out there who are perfectly capable of carrying a rider without any doubts; and who aren't confirmationally challenged in that area. She looks great from the most recent photo you posted you sound like a really caring owner, I am sorry if that's not what you want to read, but that's just my view.
 
AShetlandBitMeOnce said:
I am also pleased that you have had better news, but if the front part of the spine was as bad as you say then I would not be looking at riding again regardless of the condition of the rest of the back. I'm not saying for a moment to ignore the vet, he is a specialist of course, but just to have a good think before you go ahead with things.

Having broken my back at L3 (I know you can't really compare human/horse, but regardless) and suffered with some nerve damage and compression, I know how crippling back pain can be and how a cold snap, or lying funny can near on cripple me some days. The thought of giving someone a piggy back brings tears to my eyes, and my injury, being two years ago now, is nowhere near as severe as your mares sounds from your OP - I have also had steroid injections, acupunture, 4 weekly Osteo, surgical pins and all sorts. So if she is a stoic as she sounds I would be really carefully considering her ridden future. There are a thousand horses out there who are perfectly capable of carrying a rider without any doubts; and who aren't confirmationally challenged in that area. She looks great from the most recent photo you posted you sound like a really caring owner, I am sorry if that's not what you want to read, but that's just my view.
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yes I completely get that. I will work closely with the vet. will tell me what’s right, if riding is not for her, trust me I will not ride her. He said to take it as it comes, if she has the surgery then she most likely could be ridden as it would be the snip.

i will be very cautious and work closely with physio and vets :)
 
My friend had a kissing spines horse and I think the problem is the treatment is unsuccessful if they are not kept in work afterwards. Could she be a driving horse?
 
Firefly9410 said:
My friend had a kissing spines horse and I think the problem is the treatment is unsuccessful if they are not kept in work afterwards. Could she be a driving horse?
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this is what the vet said, now that the prognosis is not as bad. She would need the rehab and work to keep her back strong.
 
For anyone who was following this, my mare ended up having surgery July 2020 as the second half of x rays were completely clear of any kissing spine.

she was professionally rehabbed for a few months at a kissing spine specialist centre. We have taken everything slow to improve her posture and she’s looking amazing. She is now just done her first canter, only one lap of the school but it’s well worth the year. Spent 7 months doing groundwork to change posture and build muscle. She hasn’t put a foot wrong since being pain free behaviour wise.
Had a few lameness issues but resolved.

she’s trying her heart out, we didn’t think she’d get this far but she’s doing so well. She is now professionally schooled by a Grand Prix rider.

Just so people know there is hope. And if she ever becomes unhappy what needs to be done will be. It’s been a long year of crying and longlining 5/6 days a week.
 
thank you guys, keeping my fingers crossed myself, it’s been long and a whole team of physios. Out of everything posture training has been most important.

as long as she is happy that is literally all I care about. She is much happier on the ground, never bites anymore. Never grumpy (other than in the rain ?) and always wants cuddles. I’ve got my girl back. I’ll take whatever time I get with her.
 
So pleased to read a positive update and glad things are going the right way. I wish you and your horse every strength and the best of luck.
 
I am very sorry you and your mare are having to go through this.If you decide on euthanasia try the BHS service "Friends at the End." They will give you and your mare a lot of support at this difficult time.
 
That is a fantastic update, OP. Thanks for coming back and letting us know. A long journey, for sure, but hopefully worth it. Would also love to see a photo of her now!
 
Glad she is doing well :)

I have an arab that has a dippy back and he had muscle damage from a too narrow saddle years ago, I ended up buying a new saddle with a remedial fitter and he completely changed his posture and way of going, his 17 now and his back is still dipped but his got a really good top line and works really well and although it took a long time for the back to look healthy it can be done.
 
Really pleased that you have had a positive outcome from surgery and treatment.

Out of interest, what approach did you take for the posture training?
 
Heinze171 said:
I write this with a very heavy heart and ask everyone to be kind in their words with advice. I am truly heartbroken.
My tb mare was diagnosed with kissing spine, the vet only managed to get half way down the back because x ray machine broke but so far behind the withers and start of the back have severe kissing spine. Two of the bones have fused and joined past eachother with 3 others having lesions in the middle of them.
I posted on a kissing spine group on Facebook and everyone seems to think I should get a second opinion. My vet is a back and lameness expert though. But I still will get one.

the vet has said she is too severe for surgery, if the back continues the way the first half of the x rays have gone. He said even if y’all e found someone willing to do the surgery she would ultimately fuse back again due to her confirmation. I’ll attach a few photos, her confirmation is very sway back. He said if you put a rider on her it’ll gradually fuse up.

he has given me the two options. Retirement vs euthanasia. I said as long as she’s pain free she can be retired forever, she is my world. But he said sadly with a back this had (crippled In His terms) Then she is going to be in a lot of pain.
she is currently on strong pain medications till the next x ray.

if anyone knows kissing spine, can they be pain free if not ridden? If she is in pain I want to do what’s right but I’m just absolutely Heartbroken View attachment 47028View attachment 47027
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Glad you have some better news fingers crossed for you and your mare.
 
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ILuvCowparsely said:
I am with some of the others. I would get a second opinion even a 3rd before I made any decisions. We had a livery here whose horse had kissing spine, * don't know the severity* but on a low dose of danilon he was happy and could have retired in the field. Even on the day he was pts he was galloping round bucking having fun, would not be caught. Owners boss said PTS have him shot. It upset a lot of people here as we had no warning.

Find an independent vet get there opinion, he may be able to retire on no bute or very low dose of danilon. What I am saying is get every opinion, and every option clear in your mind before being hasty.
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Perhaps read the whole thread before commenting? See OP's update post #67 posted yesterday evening.

OP, great to see a positive update!
 
Wow! I missed the original post and was very heart-in-boots until I realised the thread was a year old.

My comment was going to be that lordosis when congenital isn't an immediate death sentence nor precludes ridden work, so I wasn't sure about everyone with very gloomy opinions being so on the money.

I couldn't disagree with you going for the second opinion x-rays and what a good job you did, eh!

I'm so happy for you at this outcome and reserving judgement on the pro GP rider training, just because I don't know enough good ones.

I wish you and her all the best. Thanks for this unexpectedly amazing update.
 
DabDab said:
Really pleased that you have had a positive outcome from surgery and treatment.

Out of interest, what approach did you take for the posture training?
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I will try get some pictures for you because its so much easier than words to show how we had to change her posture.

We used a series of exercises that she had to do everyday. Firstly, to change her posture at all we had to get her flexible because all of her body was so solid from referred pain/issues.
Initially focused on the simple things like carrot stretches, most people do left side, right side and inbetween the legs but we had around 8/9 in total that we did.
There was another exercise which was holding a front leg as if you're picking out thier feet and rocking them back onto their hind, this helped with the hamstrings.
We then did belly lifts and posterial pelvic tilts ( i hope i spelt that right), but the clue is in the name of these ones, they help with posture massively. https://www.drbarbaraparks.com/blog/horse-crunches
There is a link that explains the last two.

But thats what we did for posture and i can hands down say i dont think she would be where she is now (vet said this as well) without us researching and changing her posture, otherwise she wouldve continued to work in the incorrect way even if sound.

Hope they help x
 
Lovely to hear, i have heard its common in arabs. Long time is defo an understatement isnt it. feels like ages aha ! x
Pinkvboots said:
Glad she is doing well :)

I have an arab that has a dippy back and he had muscle damage from a too narrow saddle years ago, I ended up buying a new saddle with a remedial fitter and he completely changed his posture and way of going, his 17 now and his back is still dipped but his got a really good top line and works really well and although it took a long time for the back to look healthy it can be done.
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brighteyes said:
Wow! I missed the original post and was very heart-in-boots until I realised the thread was a year old.

My comment was going to be that lordosis when congenital isn't an immediate death sentence nor precludes ridden work, so I wasn't sure about everyone with very gloomy opinions being so on the money.

I couldn't disagree with you going for the second opinion x-rays and what a good job you did, eh!

I'm so happy for you at this outcome and reserving judgement on the pro GP rider training, just because I don't know enough good ones.

I wish you and her all the best. Thanks for this unexpectedly amazing update.
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Thank you so much, It was scary reading the posts when this was happening. I will try post a picture as we arent even sure if she is anymore or its just really shite confirmation. either way ive treated her as if she is. But so happy she is happy, a bonus for being ridden!

Its hard to know when to take them gloomy opinions or go against them.

Haha as a dressage rider myself i totally get the GP comment. But i really found a great one who just wants to do everything correctly and slowly. Diamond in a rough in my opinion!

Thank you, defo unecpected and will try get some photos up tonight
 
Right, i have worked out how to upload the photos.

There are 6 in total but i just managed the three.

First photo - This is petra before diagnosis when her back wasnt looking good. Clearly. Her belly is dropped and has zero core strength.

Second photo - Mid June 2020, at this point she had steroid injections in her back but i wasnt happy with having to inject steroids into her every year for the rest of her life that they were predicting. So we opts for surgery. Can cleary see her posture is sh*te. Front legs are underneath and so are her back legs. Anyone can see she is umconfortable and the worst part is she was better at this point.

Final photo - this was a couple of months ago, havent got a current one, but she now has a core and posture is so much improved, has upper neck muscle and so much more. its still not perfect but we work on it continuously.

Taking photos saved me because i couldnt see the progress as i saw her everyday.
 
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Heinze171 said:
Lovely to hear, i have heard its common in arabs. Long time is defo an understatement isnt it. feels like ages aha ! x
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I did lots of the physio rehab with him much of the same you did i still do some of it now as it all helps to keep them strong and comfortable, sports massage is also good if you can find someone near you that does it.
 
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