Kissing spine, what should i do?

annar

annar

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My horse that ive had only 3 months has suddenly been diagnosed with KS, its a masssive shock as hes never shown any probs until he had a bit of time off riding due to the snow over last few weeks. ive ridden him nearly daily up until that and he was a dream, hes an ex racehorse who was working well in all 3 paces in the school, no probs with transitions and he was starting to work much lower and to the bit. after about 3-4 weeks off due to frozen school and roads and thick snow i finally got back on and he was a diff horse, grinding his teeth, head fixed to one side and then all of a sudden buck buck. i got a vet immediatly and he queried an ulcer as he was also girthy and shy of been groomed, the scope was near perfect so whilst at the vets they checked him over and found his back tender which has never been before so they xrayed and bam, KS, im devestated, he was bought as my other horse is now only a light hack after a fractured pelvis from falling and i was planning on bringing the new boy up to jumping, dressage and a bit of xc and pleasure rides. The vet has injected his back and asked me to work him as much as poss on the lunge in a pessoa building him up and will review in 4-6weeks. hes also mentioned surgery as a poss. what i wonder is, can exercise alone be enough to keep him fit and well enough to do what i want or will he eventually deteriorate to need surgery. my insurance is only for 12 months per condition so id rather get him sorted the best way now as i know we have months of work to recondition him either way. annax
 
Exercise can indeed keep a horse with KS comfortable.

If you think about it, if he is fat and saggy in his muscles, his spine will dip, causing the vertebrae to touch. If he is fit and muscled, he will carry himself more correctly and the spine will be straighter.
I would think if he hasn't shown clinical signs prior to an enforced lay off, he could well be ok when worked and muscled.

You have nothing to lose by getting him fit, so that is the way to go :).
Personally, I wouldn't operate but I know there are people on here who have and have rehabilitated successfully.
 
i had a 6yr old tb with kissing spine and the vet was 100% that it was caused by 2yrs off work as the previous owner was well just strange. we had the injections and did get a few really good rides out of her. in my view the op is a better option if they dont mind stable rest as the injections are hard to do. mine had 5 close and 3 of which were touching. we treated her for four months however the final lot of injections caught a never in my mares back and we had to pts which was the hardest thing i have ever been through in my life as she was more than my horse but my best friend. at the same time another friend had her horse treated for ks and he made a full recovery with the injections.
The vets told my my mare would have lived if we had had the op however she hated being stabled and would kick walls and become really depressed.

so in the end the injections were the best option for her. so i supose what im trying to say is the future isnt gone and you and your horse will hopefully have a brilliant future but if your horse can cope with the op and box rest and you can afford the op which ranges from2.5-5k depending on the vet this is the better option or so my vet told me.
best of luck
Helen

RIP BOO you are still in my thoughts every day xx
 
One of ours has a kissing spine..another TB.. she has a kissing spine & the vet said that if she had the op she would nead every other vertebrae removed!! Instead she had the ultra sound treatment, injections & is lunged in a pessoa for 20 mins 3 times a week & has worked wonders... had the back lady out a few weeks ago & she couldn't believe the improvement..she said there was no tension in her back at all..
 
Yep! Had one years ago that evented to novice level with kissing spine. Was always worked long and low at home, fed off the ground and we never took her swimmming. Was fine - finally PTS six years after diagnosis due to a paddock accident, totally unrelated.
 
Thankyou so much for your replies, theyve given me hope. i am so upset but worse things could happen and we have to deal with it and hope he comes through ok. i have so many dreams for us. x
 
It would prob be worth getting a physio in to help with any soft tissue needing attention and to help with rehab/core stability strengthening etc. It wont be cured but if managed correctly horse will have active life. Another treatment is mesotherapy which has had excellent results when managing KS.
As you say your horse hasnt worked for a while, the sudden change in him could be from a loss of muscle and strength or compensation leading to his back pain. When he was in work it could be that he was fit and managing to cope with the underlying condition. Since being out of work it just may have thrown him over the edge which has resulted in you finding out about his KS. I doubt wehther this is a fresh thing, just that it was under wraps before.
 
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thanks, thats just what the vet said, he said its classic of KS for it to show after some time off leading to muscle loss and inability to cope. My other lad has physio with vicky spalding so ive asked her to come see him too for support. ive heard of this mesotherapy will look into it, is it done by vets? annax
 
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Hi

My thoroughbred cross was diagnosed with KS 18 months ago and my vet has advised me to continue to work him long and low and i work with a great physio who has managed to get my horse fit and back to fitness and we are now doing prelim dressage. My boy hasn't had any surgery or injections just alot of hard work on either side and now he is great. As Long as he is wrapped up warm in the field and the stable he has no problems. When he was first diagnosed the vet put him on bute twice a day for the rest of his life but since working with the physio and schooling long and low he is completly off the physio. What area are you based?

steph
 
annar said:
Thankyou so much for your replies, theyve given me hope. i am so upset but worse things could happen and we have to deal with it and hope he comes through ok. i have so many dreams for us. x
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I can relate so much to what you are going through, i bought my beautiful kind boy at rising 5 as my other horse was ageing and wouldnt do everything I was wanting to. He showed no signs of any problems and sailed through the vetting. I dont agree that KS is necessarily a long standing problem in your horse, it depends on age and my boy had more developing to do, his KS has got worse as he has grown and as his spines have rubbed, but KS can develop at any age. His condition got worse the fitter he became. Like you I had such hopes and dreams and we were really progressing when his KS really kicked in.
I opted for the surgery without any hesitation and we are curremtly rehabing, it is very difficult but what is the point of putting money and work into a condition that will not go away and may get worse. I am not knocking those who havent gone my route but for me there was no doubt. Having said that my boy had a very aggressive contact, it was not 'kissing' more 'punching'!!
Good luck with whatever you decide.
 
Dont worry too much initially, just see if you can rebuild the muscles again and get his back strong again. If he was going so well and improving his way of going before the lay off, then there is a high chance that he will be OK again without injections/surgery.

Get the physio out and get her to do plenty of H wave, make sure your saddle is 100 % ( did he loose or put on weight after his time off? this would have changed the saddle fit ) get the teeth and feet checked ( short toes) and just get him working again with plenty of pessoa work, and long and low work, give it 6-8 weeks good quality work and then if not improving or getting worse, then start thinking about surgury/injections..

Remember a vast proportion of horses show kissing spine on their x rays ( as much as 80% ) but there are different degrees of bone remodelling, so some can work through it others cant. If you let them loose top line that is just a disaster as you cant expect them to work without muscle to support the back, but once youve got that muscle back, he may well be OK. So try as hard as pos to build him back up again ( lots of work and good feed/hay) and if no improvement then start looking for further vet advice..
 
thanks SB. when i bought him he had his teeth, back and saddle sorted before i even got on board, i suppose thats why i feel so down as i tried to make sure we started on a good foot right from the start. he doesnt really have a topline due to been a racer so the time off would easily have been the cause to show it up. waiting for physio to book us in asap and come loosen him off poor lad, we tired pessoa yesterday, i lunged him normally first just to get some steam off and he worked with his head very low but as soon as pessoa went on he was tilting and fixing his head and grinding his teeth even on lowest setting poor lad so ill check with vet today re painkillers. annax
 
im in sheff too, which vet are you using??? minster was mine and they had a good physio on board as i had trouble getting vicky out however i have heard she is brill.

just keep your chin up and hopefully all will be ok.
i did alot of research in to it and 80% of horses have it to some degree. even some top eventers are still out wonning after ks treatment
 
hi im using hird and partners at halifax. they came very well recommended. thankfully i already use Vicky for my other lad so she will see both now. are you managing yours without surgery? annax
 
Phew I'm soo glad I've seen this post!!
My 7/8 TB showjumper has been basically configned to quarters for the last 5 weeks. He has a history of KS has I was gutted to see him crippled when we restarted ridden work. I'm not the only one with a wonky pony then! It is really terrible to see him like an old man when we were flying along before the snow.
He is on bute at the moment and i have schooling and lunging plans for when he is ready. I've bought an Armadillo magnetic rug at Christmas. has anyone elsed tried that?
Warming up in walk and canter NOT trot has really helped
 
Can I just slightly hijack post here, my horse has extreme sway back, has always had this, not due to age. He had a problem when ridden that he would sometimes twist his neck so his head was horizontal. He has always been girthy and very touchy about having rugs on. Vet has never mentioned KS but I am wondering now if this could be the problem. I have had his back xrayed in the past when he was in for a lameness workup as vet was fascinated by his shape, but we couldnt get a picture because of his shape? He isnt tender in his back when its pressed.
Could it still be KS do you think?
 
annar said:
hi im using hird and partners at halifax. they came very well recommended. thankfully i already use Vicky for my other lad so she will see both now. are you managing yours without surgery? annax
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im heart broken to say we lost her had to have her pts as she got a nerve caught in her bad with the injections and started falling over. we had no choice but to let her go! she is the pretty girl on my profile and we lost her on the 2nd of july after a four month battle. i just think we were unlucky and have seen many others cope well with the injections

xx
 
oh im so sorry HW.
ive been looking at the armadillo rugs was watching one on ebay but it went over my budget.
Alma some of those were symptoms china has, he fixes his neck on right rein and is now girthy and also hates been groomed over his flanks and around his belly, will actually trun to snap. hes not funny about rugs but can be a little cold backed with them. hes a big lad so i have no choice but to chuck them up. annax
 
Thanks annar, sounds a possibility then. He hasnt been ridden for over a year but had been considering a return to light work. If I cant get an xray then they wouldnt be able to inject either and wouldnt be able to find right place. Have to say though he was ridden for 6 years
with these symptoms and never tried to buck or rear or anything under saddle, so possibly not totally bad news for this condition.
 
I just want to say you are not alone in all this!!

My boy Tango had the KS op yesterday. He had impingements of T15/T16 and T16/T17. I have only owned him since the beginning of August this year and have probably ridden him for about 3 weeks in total.

Over the few months at first he was very fidgety when being tacked up, wouldnt stand still when mounting (initially I thought he was cold backed) I couldnt get canter from trot etc then ended up having bronching fits across the school even putting me in hospital. Eventually I thought enough was enough and took him to the vets where he was diagnosed.

He was given a cortisone injection initially and I was told to lunge in a pessoa for 4 weeks and have physio, which is what I did. In fact, I left it 5 weeks just to be sure. I also bought a magnetic rug, which he wore for half an hour every day and I was longreining. He only had 1 day off a week, I was very dedicated as I wanted it to work!

When I got back on he still felt exactly the same, just uncomfortable tenseness as if he was screaming at me 'get off it hurts!!' We had a little moment when I thought I was going to hit the deck again but he soon stopped so I dismounted.

At this point I knew the only way forward was surgery. I spoke to the vet who said the op is fairly simple as he only needs one dsp removing and it can be done under standing sedation as long as he could tolerate it.

He went to the vets on Monday evening and had the op yesterday, went to see him last night and he seemed very perky, vets called today to say that he is coping very well and theyre going to reduce his bute levels today.

I am very aware that the insurance company will only pay for his treatment for this for a year so wanted to get the op out of the way just incase he needs any other treatment down the line.

Sorry for the long essay!! But please do not feel panic, its not the end of the world.. PM me if you would like xxx
 
great to hear ur boy is doing so well Ivebeentangoed. Sounds like he is recovering really well. What brand of magnetic rug did you use? I have the Armadillo on for 4 hours daily.
 
thanks for that, see thats the odd thing, China was fine been ridden, walk trot and beautiful canter, never bucked although must say he felt like he would at times. nearly always struck canter on correct lead and odd occasion he didnt he righted himself. stood still to be mounted and also when mounted (odd for an ex racehorse i know) never girthy but was gripey been groomed. it was such a shock when he went beserk and i truly thought i was coming off, not a surprise really considering how painful it must be. im on day 4 of lunging in pessoa, hes still bracing himself quitre alot but is no longer grinding now hes on danilon. im having physio fri to try and loosen him up. annax
 
As one of the other members also said on here, 80% of horses suffer from ms, most of the time it goes undetected, it can just take something simple like muscular change to all of a sudden start to affect them.
Tango passed a 5 stage vetting the week before he came to me plus I had been up there to try him out numerous times, hacking jumping and shoolig and apart from being a bit fidgety when I mounted showed no signs of anything other than a little impatience.
In my opinion and after doing LOTS of research on this the only way to telly solve this issue is to remove the conflicting dsp. Yes lots of horses cope well having cortisone injections etc but I think, and this is just my opinion, that this is just masking the problem.
The injections can work for a week or a year but the one in between treatments gets shorter and shorter as the effect wears off sooner. I had 2 physios out to see tango, one before he was diagnosed, she said he had a dropped pelvis and was tight in a few areas. The next one was after he was diagnosed, we said the ks isn't a problem and I'll be back on in a week, they we'd both totally wrong I their diagnosis.
You are the only one that knows your horse best so you need to weigh up all the pros and cons and make a decision based on that.
 
Instead of a 'massage' rug I used my own boots tens on my horse, with the physio's advice to get the right settings, and that helped him alot and kept him a lot more supple & he didn't object to it & would doze off when it was in use
 
just one question, china was injected a week ago and hes still very sore on his back, hes having to have painkillers and swishes his tail alot if i go near his rear end, should he not be feelig more comfortable by now? annax
 
annar said:
just one question, china was injected a week ago and hes still very sore on his back, hes having to have painkillers and swishes his tail alot if i go near his rear end, should he not be feelig more comfortable by now? annax
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I would have thought that after a week he would have been feeling a little better, if not from the injection then from the painkillers?

Tango was on bute for a week after his injection, the only day he showed any improvement was the day he left the vets after being diagnosed, he galloped round all day in the field, bucking etc, seemed really happy, it was really lovely to see! But I put this down to the local anaesthetic when they nerve blocked him. Did they nerve block China?

You have to remember that the injection can be completely hit and miss, some horses only need one, but for others like mine it has no effect at all.

xx
 
he was boxed for 2 days after injection just to watch for a reaction but he went crackers out in field on first day out. hes alot better on painkillers but he just keeps doing this strange looking at his bum occassionally like hes looking for something sticking a pin in or something. hes stopped grinding his teeth on pessoa so thats an improvement. we will see what physio makes of him today, perhaps the pessoa is making him uncomfortable. im sure theres a muscle spasm that needs releasing, ill update tonight on physio visit. annax
 
physio has been today and was quite surprised how mobile he was considering his back pain so it quite positive we can help him. he lunged well and turning on tight circles in very good. hes had his back treated and ive been given loads of exercises to do. we are also investing in the back massager. she thinks he will benefit from water treadmill therapy to get his topline as typical ex racer style he has a razor back spine. im going to modify his diet to help as much as i can and have to start lunging again tomorrow. fingers crossed its good news for China pot. annax
 
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