Kissing spine, what should i do?

Thankyou for bumping this foxy1 I've been looking for a thread like this, feel rather desperate and don't know what to do.

I've had my lad 18 months, and I bought him intending to bring on and either event him or sell him (finances being what they are), so i was gutted when he was diagnosed witH KS in November. His symptoms were very slight on the flat, occasionally he took an unlevel step behind or skruck off on the wrong canter. Over a jump however he cramped his back and threw his head up, he was very green and had been in a field for several months when I bought him so I initially put it down to that, but he didn't improve with training. He's a total sweetheart in the stable.

He has had cortisone injections into the spine and muscle relaxant into the back muscles, followed by shockwave treatements . Thanks to the snow and ice I haven't been able to work him as much as i'd have liked, but have used the pessoa when I can and have restarted ridden work.

I've been wondering if I should put him through the op and rehab or just try to work the muscles up. I have the same issues as everyone else - will the treatemnet continue to work, what about money - the insurance timer is ticking etc.

Having read this, I think I owe it to the horse to make him as comfy as possible - the op will take away the pain permanently even if he's uncomfortable in the short term.

I will have to decide if I should keep him after that or find someone smaller and lighter. I blame myself a bit for pushing him too hard and letting myself get too heavy (He's full TB 16hh and I'm 11st (I've piled it on in the last yr:()).

Would anyone here buy a horse who had had this op and was back in work?
 
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Chinas doing ok. we are religiously lunging first without (to warm up) and then with the pessoa every day and have got to 10mins either side on pessoa, hes gradually starting to relax on the lowest setting (has never had a hissy in it) and is working nicely in walk, still lifting head when going into trot, therfore im only doing short bursts of trot walk transitions. We have been told to add poles to the sessions after he is settled in walk and trot with his carriage.

ive changed his feed adding topspec cool cubes and balancer slowley over last 3 days and im hoping to see a diff soon.

his belly is going and hes holding himself much more upright, belly held up so its def helping his posture, i have started taking piccies of him and will be videoing him fri when my pal comes to lunge him so i have a way of monitoring his progress. Hes still sore but is willing to work so it must be easing him. im not to ride for 6-8 weeks at least. ive also been given some good stretched by physio to try and stabilise his back more which hes learning very quickly and is very eager to please.

Puffin, China is 17hh and im about 10.5 stone as im tall (5'10) so i dont think your to heavy, im certainly not fat, my other horse is 15.3 and i ride him after a fractured pelvis and physio says im fine for him. annax
 
Totally agree with that post about weight - your weight is not a problem honestly if he was smaller then maybe but a 16hh TB should be ok to take 12st - I got quite big with my first boy after I had my son and as long as I rode lightly in my seat and did not yahoo him around he was more than happyto take me and my additional weight - I just found myself a little ungainly as my point of balance changed.

I have just had the vet out to my 8 y./o IDX for xrays and they think he is likely to have KS and I am to have a Bone Scan - only bought him in oct and he passed a full vetting too - really disapointed as not the horse I bought now and never will be as will have to keep him epecially active and with a family I thought I had bought a chilled out groom, love and ride horse but this is now not the case - do not want to euthanise him as I think from the posts he can still lead a good life but it will not be with me do not have fascilities or experience for that - at the same time I will not be able to sell him and therefore have lost 4K and will have to start again to save up to buy something else - brain has exploded somewhat!!

anyway hope everyone on this post who has a KS problem works it out as it seems to be a very personal individual thing.
 
Madmoo I have pmd you back..

I did a lot of investigating when tango was diagnosed on all the various treatments.
The main thing regarding the steroid injection was that it is merely masking the problem, yes some horses go brilliantly after it but the effects do wear off, sometimes after a month, sometimes after 6 months, then you're left with a horse in pain again and back to square 1, yes you can have more injections but how long for before the effects wear off completely?
My opinion was that if the insurance company are going to pay then I am going for the op to remove the problem completely.
Yes it is a big decision and yes it is really hard work but you have to think about quality of life also. My horse became dangerous in the end so i had to think about my life too.
I don't doubt for one minute that I made the right decision by tango, but if we get to a year down the line then at least I can say I tried :) xx
 
Ivebeentangoed said:
Madmoo I have pmd you back..

I did a lot of investigating when tango was diagnosed on all the various treatments.
The main thing regarding the steroid injection was that it is merely masking the problem, yes some horses go brilliantly after it but the effects do wear off, sometimes after a month, sometimes after 6 months, then you're left with a horse in pain again and back to square 1, yes you can have more injections but how long for before the effects wear off completely?

Not necessarily - if you medicate back then work horse hard with a rehab programme (who should now be pain free or significantly less if you have medicated correctly) as ANNAR is doing then this will strengthen andominals, gluteals etc , strech over topline so horse will be physically stonger when the medication wears off. Hence should help the problem....
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That type of treatment will only work on a mild kiss, my horse had very aggressive contact in the process and no amount of top line building etc will lessen that. You are dependent on the muscles holding the process more separate and that won't happen where there is aggressive contact. Seeing my horses back finally swinging in his first days on the lunge is all the answer I need.
 
My friends horse is an x race horse and we 've been in the same circumstances as you re the exercise with the snow, he's suddenly got what the vet suspects is KS so he's off to get xrays done, he fell outside his stable the other day like his back end wasn't working properly, he got up and fell on the other side, they've been in so much in the snow, maybe it contributed I don't know
 
I agree with the fact injections are a short term solution. I operated after injections wasted 3 months of my time...if I hadnt done it within the the insurance year there is no way I could afford to do it.

Good luck! x
 
Also like to add, all well and good building up the topline and it making the horse more comfortable but if the horse injures itself or has to have time off and that muscle disappears its a long struggle to get it back!! x
 
i agree holly, this is my main concern. what if i have to have time off or cant ride, what if he has time off, what if snow comes bad and i cant work him every day. im buggered and worry im just holding back something that is never going to go. im going to discuss this on the 31st jan with vet. China looks better for the lunging but i dont see any evidence that hes anymore comfortable in his back as hes still grumpy grooming and tonight when i put massager on he was reluctant to let me do up the straps, he did though love the massage. annax
 
I was soooooooo stressed making the decision but mainly because of insurance running out (plus they messed me around!) but did surgery, yes wasnt easy, she had mild colic after, allergic to antibiotics, wound reopened blah blah she was away in rehab so i was broke paying for that....but she is now wonderful and im glad I did it! did have to re-evalute my desperate need to ride as she just wasnt ready but atleast I know she isnt in pain anymore....must also add that she is 19 (was 16/17 when operated on) however thats what her passport says...dentist thinks in her 20s! so they are never to old!

Good luck, if I had to do it again I would!!

x
 
It is a very stressful decision to make yes, I had a 2 months of kissing spine decisions going round in my head, it can really do you in!! Especially when you dont know if the insurance will pay out!!

But, having said that, now he has had the operation I dont doubt that it was the right choice. Once they had opened him up one side of the dsp was so fused to the next one the vet had tourble finding where that one ended and the next one began! (They removed T16)

They do say that some KS horses are always in some sort of low grade pain even when not being ridden, I think this was the case for my boy, very slow walk and a real struggle to get him to trot in hand too.

Went to see him last night and he seems really happy, hes a big boy and I did worry that he wouldnt take the box rest very well but hes fine, had some of the stitches out yesterday and the wound is healing well, the rest will be out on Tuesday.

It would be nice if we could all keep in contact seeing as we are all in different stages of this.
 
HollyP- Can I ask how long it was between op and getting back on for the first time? I too have Tango at rehab and its crippling me so just wondering how long hes going to have to stay there for. Once he is at the ridden stage the livery goes up £40 a week!! xx
 
I got back on about 4 months after op (we had a few weeks set back with her infection) but she hadnt really built enough topline, dont think she liked the pessoa....I moved her home after 6months (in whole) and did ALOT of ground work...god bless parelli....for all the negatives you hear gave me a chance to calm my horse down and regain a relationship with her she had lost a lot of confidence! but maybe a few months after that for her to relax the topline starting coming on (weather got better!) so I'd say be flexible maybe 8 months....we have had endless problems since but all unrelated!! She was older though and had lost a lot of weight (stress and pain) and muscle before we started. Its funny she looks like a small, 16hh, version of your boy!!
 
Hhhmm ok, Tango is only 9 so im wondering if it will be a bit easier when it comes to rebacking him.
I was thinking of getting a monty roberts type person out to him once we are ready to back him, I think a lot of the problem will be teaching him the pain is no longer there, but again its the money side of things that are going to be a struggle!!
xx
 
Totally know what you mean about money :( but one or two lessons might save you loads of stress...and you'll have an action plan to work on! Does your horse naturally hold topline? Next horse I buy will!!
 
its an awful scenario and the nurse in me tells me that surgery is the only way to sort this. the pessoa is doing wonders shape wise. hes working really well and his withers etc are already building up. i do think its good to get a bit of topline going for him before we think about surgery as been an ex racer hes nothing, we need something to help before hand.

he worked wonderful today after i used the equlibrium massager on him to warm him up, even on lowest setting. and hes starting to add a little weight with the new feed so all positive and hopefully will set him in good stead for whatever is to follow.

Ive thought about rehab, did your horses go straight from surgery? China is a nightmare been boxed alone and my other horse has spavins so hes not to stay in so i have no companion for him. thats why i thought rehab may be good if they take staright away and they can dealw ith the speration issue as im sure there is always horses in. China will weave and stress when alone, he does settle eventually but i doubt this would be productive for a good recovery. Where have you sent your horses for rehab and what kind of price are you looking at? i am saving just incase. annax
 
That's good he's doing well on the Pessoa :) it will all help to make him feel more comfortable.

I did a lot of research on rehab liveries, as I work full-time in London there is no way I could do it myself. I went to see quite a few places but i decided that he would be better off at a smaller yard as there wouldn't be too much going on that would stress him out while he's on box rest.

I found a lady that was recommended to me by a friend, she takes on injured race horses and brings them back into work, she's also got a few babies that she is breaking for racing, she also used to run a hydrotherapy clinic at my vets so came highly recommended, I couldn't be happier with my choice and tango seems very happy there.

I did find that prices ranged quite a lot, one place even wanted £270 a week!! :o I am currently paying £140 a week but that will go up to £180 once he is being rebacked. It's a lot of money but I felt that if I was going to put him through the op I wanted to give him the best chance afterwards.

What area are you in? Search convalescing livery on google I found loads through that.

Let me know how you are getting on xx
 
thanks for that, im in sheffield, south yorkshire. Fingers crossed your lad continues to do well. This thread is so keeping me positive. If anyone wants to see how we are going im doing a step by step on my facebook pages with photos from start onwards. im on as anna matthews-revitt. annax
 
Brill Hun, will add you. I am on there too, probably more than I am on here!! I'm under abigail yearsley, profile pic is me on tango, our first and only dressage test! It definitely helps to talk to people who are going through the same thing, I'm in contact with quite a few people who are at different stages xx
 
Just been reading your posts and thought I would try and reassure you some more. I've had my boy 3 years and together we have been very successful in working hunter and showjumping. He is my dream and I've waited all my life for him. Last year we were competing successfully but had a couple of run outs and knock downs, then an arching of his back when tacking up... vet came out and he was diagnosed with KS and proximal ligament desmitis. It has now been six months since diagnosus and my horse had the op, recovered and is rehabbing now, in fact today is the day I can finally get back on board and I'm very excited, just hope he doesn't chuck me off!
What I'm trying to say is, I felt devastated like you when he was diagnosed and was even given pts as an option because injections would not have helped him - he is vet and needle phobic, so the op was my only option. He is a changed horse! The six months have gone surprisingly fast.
I really hope you get a good solution for your horse, and remember its not the end, things can sort themselves out and vets are on the whole, knowledgeable about KS.
Lots of hugs xxx
 
Thanks for that RV. i just guess at times its a bit deflating. China was bought after my first horse was retired to a light hack only, after 2 months of having Frank he fell and fractured his pelvis unridden and 2 years on although recovered to hacking he now has spavins so i just feel as though my whole experience of horse ownership has been illness and we are starting again with China. Worse things happen i know and i will deal with this, would just like to be dealt an easier card on occasions lol, China was bought to take me further in schooling and jumping which is my passion. annax
 
Really hope you find a good solution, you've had some really bad luck. Xx
On a positive note I got back on the boy today and you'd have thought he'd had a day off, not six months, back to his usual saintly self straight away. If you ever need a rant feel free to rant to me, I know how devastating it can be and after your other experience, doubly so. Chin up and fingers crossed for you both x
 
Hi, Bridie is a weaver and has seperation anxiety, but she went straight from hospital to rehab, I also chose a quiet yard and she coped perfectly. :) will add you both on fb...on there somwhere are some pics of bridie during rehab! iv got a lot of work to do with her in the next few weeks...she has been of for 3 months and im desperate to get out there and get her topline back!
 
Thanks both. if China goes for surgery ive already made the decision that he will go straight to rehab. I find watching them stressing very stressful myself and know that this way he will be cared for as and when he needs rather than just am and pm visits and he can be monitored safely. annax
 
RedVendetta said:
Just been reading your posts and thought I would try and reassure you some more. I've had my boy 3 years and together we have been very successful in working hunter and showjumping. He is my dream and I've waited all my life for him. Last year we were competing successfully but had a couple of run outs and knock downs, then an arching of his back when tacking up... vet came out and he was diagnosed with KS and proximal ligament desmitis. It has now been six months since diagnosus and my horse had the op, recovered and is rehabbing now, in fact today is the day I can finally get back on board and I'm very excited, just hope he doesn't chuck me off!
What I'm trying to say is, I felt devastated like you when he was diagnosed and was even given pts as an option because injections would not have helped him - he is vet and needle phobic, so the op was my only option. He is a changed horse! The six months have gone surprisingly fast.
I really hope you get a good solution for your horse, and remember its not the end, things can sort themselves out and vets are on the whole, knowledgeable about KS.
Lots of hugs xxx
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My horse had similar problems to yours, KS (aggressive contact on one process) with suspensory damage. We are now at lunging and limited turnout stage. My research and pre-op period went on for over 6 months and I think I read all there is to read, spoke to so many people, did all the usual back person, rest, injections, lunging etc and stressed and shed many tears for my dream horse. I think it was me who penned the phrase 'at least I will have tried' when I made the decision to go ahead and operate, not that I really doubted it!
Svend Kold who did Ozzies op has said that the majority of horses that he operates on come back to ridden work after 6 weeks handwalking, which is really the wound and op recovery period, and 6 weeks pessoa lunging.
The lunging program that we have is very intense mind you with 50 trot to canter transitions within a session and pole work. I hope I'm up to it for my boy but if not I guess it will just take a bit longer.
Glad to hear you had no problems getting back on, I'm a bit nervous I must admit, Oz has always been a very kind and obedient boy, never one to explode or threaten so fingers crossed. xx

Oh... and theres no sign of any problems with the suspensories either, they seem to have held up well!!
 
Nigsha said:
My horse had similar problems to yours, KS (aggressive contact on one process) with suspensory damage. We are now at lunging and limited turnout stage. My research and pre-op period went on for over 6 months and I think I read all there is to read, spoke to so many people, did all the usual back person, rest, injections, lunging etc and stressed and shed many tears for my dream horse. I think it was me who penned the phrase 'at least I will have tried' when I made the decision to go ahead and operate, not that I really doubted it!
Svend Kold who did Ozzies op has said that the majority of horses that he operates on come back to ridden work after 6 weeks handwalking, which is really the wound and op recovery period, and 6 weeks pessoa lunging.
The lunging program that we have is very intense mind you with 50 trot to canter transitions within a session and pole work. I hope I'm up to it for my boy but if not I guess it will just take a bit longer.
Glad to hear you had no problems getting back on, I'm a bit nervous I must admit, Oz has always been a very kind and obedient boy, never one to explode or threaten so fingers crossed. xx

Oh... and theres no sign of any problems with the suspensories either, they seem to have held up well!!
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Yes the ligament problem seems to have been solved by the KS op, so fingers crossed there he wont need any further work on that just yet. The vet said he was compensating for the pain in his back with the back legs and the one with the ligament problem had been injured in the past so was weak anyway. Ive ridden him twice now and he didnt bat an eyelid but can tell he isnt happy in his saddle so Ive got a master saddler coming out on Tues, and going to blow all my cash on a new saddle so I will have fixed horse with saddle that fits! He has changed shape since the op. I dont have to lunge until he's happy going in circles as vet wants me to do lots of straight lines at first. I think they all have different rehab programmes but I cant canter til week 8 and won't be jumping til at least April, by the time I get back to jumping it will have been nearly a year. It's amazing how common KS seems to be, a lot of people seem to have had some experience with it, be it first hand or not. Good luck with the rehab :)
 
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