Kissing spines - anyone's horse had 5 removed?

Wagtail

Wagtail

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Yes 5! Next week my boy is undergoing an operation to remove 5 spinal processes. He will be standing for the procedure as I thought it safer than a general. Anyone had this many removed? Was the outcome good or bad? Poor boy. I am so worried about him, but he is in so much pain just walking about that this is his only hope. :(
 
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hi
i think islandspirit had five removed

she also wrote a very interesting blog http://kissingspines.blogspot.com/

i'm sure if you do a search you'll find some of her posts

one of mine had 3 removed in july this year but i have taken things very slowly with her as she also had other issues going on found through a bone scan

you are more than welcome to pm me as rather a long story
 
horsedreams said:
hi
i think islandspirit had five removed

she also wrote a very interesting blog http://kissingspines.blogspot.com/

i'm sure if you do a search you'll find some of her posts

one of mine had 3 removed in july this year but i have taken things very slowly with her as she also had other issues going on found through a bone scan

you are more than welcome to pm me as rather a long story
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I read this but unfortunately it ends all too soon, it doesn't say whether the horse is now being ridden

wish you lots of luck
 
horsedreams said:
hi
i think islandspirit had five removed

she also wrote a very interesting blog http://kissingspines.blogspot.com/

i'm sure if you do a search you'll find some of her posts

one of mine had 3 removed in july this year but i have taken things very slowly with her as she also had other issues going on found through a bone scan

you are more than welcome to pm me as rather a long story
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Thank you! I opted not to have a bone scan as my insurance company would not separate out different conditions if they are found :mad: But the xrays are so bad of his back that the vets feel his other problems are caused by the KS and that it is worth going straight into the surgery. They are astounded that he allowed me to ride him as long as he did as he must be in agony. He is such a kind genuine horse.The vet at Rossdales said that the worst problem with the op is that some horses just do not recover mentally from the pain that they expect will be there. But I have a good relationship with my boy and hope that I will be able to overcome this.
 
Wagtail

How did your boy get on with the standing surgery, my mare has just had it with 3 removed. The vets were also amazed at how well she'd been behaving as she had 5 DP impinged quite badly. She hadn't even bucked once.

I'd be interested in sharing your experiences of the standing surgery and your boys recovery. The first few weeks after surgery she was a nightmare and SO angry because she was so sore, but now like a totally different mare - so affectionate.

I was also told that its the mental damage thats hardest to overcome, and my vet has been wonderful with advice to support her mentally as well as physically.

xx
 
Hi RB. I had the surgery brought forward to yesterday. The op went very well and the vets are very pleased with how the spine now looks. I will keep you informed.

I hope your mare continues to improve. We could perhaps both post updates on this thread? I am relatively hopeful that I can overcome the mental side of the pain for my boy. I think that any severe reaction that he has will be due to real pain rather than remembered as I was able to overcome his issues with saddling etc even when he WAS in severe pain (unknown to me as I thought it was a mental problem at the time). So I think that if I take it really slowly with him we should be fine. I find clicker training is really useful for overcoming fear in horses. However, I am only 50:50 expecting him to be pain free. If he reacts violently to being ridden then I will know he is still in pain. For me, one of the first signs of trouble was when he started refusing to have his hind feed held up. If I can do this after the op, then I will be very optimistic indeed.
 
Hi Wagtail

I've been keeping a diary requested by my vets of everything we've been through so far - happy to share with you if you'd like?

Glad he was good for the surgery - where did you have it done?

Don't be disheartened if he is very sore for a few days - Bell normally the most placid horse in the world was the devil for about two weeks until she got comfortable, but now is doing incredibly well.

I would love to know how you get on though - I've spoken to a few people whose horses have had the surgery - but its always been the full GA surgery = not the standing under sedation version which has much quicker recovery times.

Good luck - hope you get to see him soon and he's not too sore!

xx
 
Riverboy said:
Hi Wagtail

I've been keeping a diary requested by my vets of everything we've been through so far - happy to share with you if you'd like?

Glad he was good for the surgery - where did you have it done?

Don't be disheartened if he is very sore for a few days - Bell normally the most placid horse in the world was the devil for about two weeks until she got comfortable, but now is doing incredibly well.

I would love to know how you get on though - I've spoken to a few people whose horses have had the surgery - but its always been the full GA surgery = not the standing under sedation version which has much quicker recovery times.

Good luck - hope you get to see him soon and he's not too sore!

xx
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Aw poor thing. It must be really sore. He had it done at Rossdales. I expect he will be really sore when I bring him home, poor thing. Good idea about the diary. I think I will keep one tooas it'suseful for others going through the procedure in future as there is still very little info on the net.
 
I have just come back today from picking up my boy and he already looks better. I am sure his walk stride is longer. The scar is very long (about 50 cm) but very clean and neat. He seems to have coped well so far with the box rest and will need to be on strict box rest for a further ten days, after which I can start walking him out for a further two weeks. After that he is to have 2 months off with turnout in a small area before I start with the longlining and pessoa. He seems really pleased to be home and doesn't seem too sore (he is on one bute a day).
 
Thats really good news :-)

I find it interesting that the rehab programme is different depending on the vet. We had 5 weeks of box rest, followed by 3 weeks of increasing turnout in a pen, then in the field and starting long reining 3 weeks ago.

Glad he is not too sore, he's doing really well - Bell was on two danilon a day for her whole box rest!

Keep us updated on how he is doing.

x
 
My horse had to have box rest for 6wks but my surgeon wanted him moving as quickly as possible and so he was walked in hand from the day following surgery, starting with just a few minutes and then increasing gradually, he then had 6 weeks in a field pen with ground work in the school and I was back on him at week 14 (2weeks late as he was being a pain and split his wound open a couple of weeks in!).
 
Riverboy said:
Thats really good news :-)

I find it interesting that the rehab programme is different depending on the vet. We had 5 weeks of box rest, followed by 3 weeks of increasing turnout in a pen, then in the field and starting long reining 3 weeks ago.

Glad he is not too sore, he's doing really well - Bell was on two danilon a day for her whole box rest!

Keep us updated on how he is doing.

x
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Yes it is really strange that they seem to differ so much. I really think they need to be pulling some information together to see what rehab program is the most effective. I would love to do something like that in order to help horses with KS in the future. The treatment options seem to differ greatly across the world. I don't think they even operate in the US.

I can't believe how comfortable he appears. The incision is really neat and not at all swollen or oozing, though I guess there's plenty of time for him to damage himself! He is also comfortable with me changing his dressing and rugging him up. Amazing really. They said he was one of the best patients they had and stood rock steady through the whole procedure, bless him.
 
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BethH said:
My horse had to have box rest for 6wks but my surgeon wanted him moving as quickly as possible and so he was walked in hand from the day following surgery, starting with just a few minutes and then increasing gradually, he then had 6 weeks in a field pen with ground work in the school and I was back on him at week 14 (2weeks late as he was being a pain and split his wound open a couple of weeks in!).
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What a pity he did that to his wound. Great news that you are back riding though. I do worry a bit that he will not be worked at all for 3 months when so many vets say to start long lining or pessoa much sooner. I just hope he comes right as he is such a kind horse.
 
Wagtail said:
I have just come back today from picking up my boy and he already looks better. I am sure his walk stride is longer. The scar is very long (about 50 cm) but very clean and neat. He seems to have coped well so far with the box rest and will need to be on strict box rest for a further ten days, after which I can start walking him out for a further two weeks. After that he is to have 2 months off with turnout in a small area before I start with the longlining and pessoa. He seems really pleased to be home and doesn't seem too sore (he is on one bute a day).
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thats great news for you and the horse glad all went well

i think your program is a good one with time being a great healer

ours was to box rest 4 weeks with inhand walking twice a day then 4 weeks out in small paddock building up time then into pessoa work

but as she had other issues we took longer in the turnout section and didn't work her for another 4 weeks then we long reined in the school building up time weekly

she as been on the pessoa for the last 4 weeks now but not every day the days we don't pessoa we long rein out on the roads for around an hour in which she seems to enjoy more
we also intend to start ground pole work in the next weeks or so and hope to try her nearer xmas for riding
keep us updated on how things are going
 
horsedreams said:
thats great news for you and the horse glad all went well

i think your program is a good one with time being a great healer

ours was to box rest 4 weeks with inhand walking twice a day then 4 weeks out in small paddock building up time then into pessoa work

but as she had other issues we took longer in the turnout section and didn't work her for another 4 weeks then we long reined in the school building up time weekly

she as been on the pessoa for the last 4 weeks now but not every day the days we don't pessoa we long rein out on the roads for around an hour in which she seems to enjoy more
we also intend to start ground pole work in the next weeks or so and hope to try her nearer xmas for riding
keep us updated on how things are going
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I hope she continues to progress well for you. Please keep us informed of her progress. I plan to long rein too, though only in the arena as he's very stressed hacking. Before the op he couldn't tolerate the pessoa, and so I think I will long rein for the first few weeks and see how he goes.
 
It would be good if there was some kind of central database of knowledge about it all. Or just some information. I could find nothing about the standing surgery when the vet suggested it for mine.

Its amazing they tolerate it really. Bell was also praised for good behaviour.

Interestingly she did not have a dressing and I was told under no circumstances to put anything on it (we cut holes in her rugs as being a wussy TB she got cold with nothing on).

Here are the pics of the first few days post surgery for her:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.10150297329954279.347448.510709278&type=3

I'll take some photos soon to show you how it looks now. She's got white hairs where the scar is, and two little bumps at the front and back of the missing 'section' as she had 3 in a row removed.

RB x
 
Having watched on the sidelines with a friends horse who went through KS surgery and seen what she had to do - it would seem that the variances in treatment are due to the differing levels of KS. We have one horse in the yard who is managed through injections and work and never needed an op and anther who was at the other end of the spectrum. Rather unhelpfully half way through his rehabilitation snow arrived and my friend was resorting to walking him in the barn to keep his programme up and he really was a lousy patient. However he is now back in full work and looks amazing.
 
Riverboy said:
It would be good if there was some kind of central database of knowledge about it all. Or just some information. I could find nothing about the standing surgery when the vet suggested it for mine.

Its amazing they tolerate it really. Bell was also praised for good behaviour.

Interestingly she did not have a dressing and I was told under no circumstances to put anything on it (we cut holes in her rugs as being a wussy TB she got cold with nothing on).

Here are the pics of the first few days post surgery for her:
http://www.facebook.com/#!/media/set/?set=a.10150297329954279.347448.510709278&type=3

I'll take some photos soon to show you how it looks now. She's got white hairs where the scar is, and two little bumps at the front and back of the missing 'section' as she had 3 in a row removed.

RB x
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Unfortunately the link said the picture was unavailable. It is unusual for three in a row to be removed as usually they remove every other spine. It's amazing how their back recovers from such an invasion. My horse had five alternate spines removed and so the scar stretches from the base of his withers to his lumber region. I will try to remember to get some photos next time I have to change the dressing. He just has a long strip of porous dressing along the length of his spine. I don't have to bathe it or anything, just remove any loose dressing and replace.
 
Luci07 said:
Having watched on the sidelines with a friends horse who went through KS surgery and seen what she had to do - it would seem that the variances in treatment are due to the differing levels of KS. We have one horse in the yard who is managed through injections and work and never needed an op and anther who was at the other end of the spectrum. Rather unhelpfully half way through his rehabilitation snow arrived and my friend was resorting to walking him in the barn to keep his programme up and he really was a lousy patient. However he is now back in full work and looks amazing.
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The condition is extremely common. Out of eight horses here, three have it! One just had two spines very close that caused him a lot of annoyance when being tacked up and mounted. He had two sets of steroid injections. The first lot only worked for a couple of weeks but the second lot of injections coupled with his owner improving her riding and working him long and low have lasted two years so far. The other horse is unbacked and has KS in four places. He had steroid injections and shockwave treatment a year ago. He is due to be backed in the sping, so we will see. Personally, I have reservations with this one though.

ETA: It does make me wonder just how many horses out there have the condition but are labelled as 'cold backed' or just dangerous?
 
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Hi Wagtail, my mare had 4 removed last year. She had the op heavily sedated and standing up. I posted photos of the before and after xrays in the veterinary photo section page 6 or 8 ( can't remember exactly)

A year down the line I am doing everything with her again and she is amazing. So much more supple and forward going. I have put alot of work into her to get her fit and I am so pleased I gave her the chance with the op.

When she was able to go out in her large paddock again I gave her 3 months complete field rest before attempting a lunging programn and that was the right thing to do for my mare. I also free lunged her ( ie just off a headcollar ) to start with and then built up the program to incorporate the pessoa. She is jumping and doing dressage again now.

I kept in contact with Abigail ( ivebeentangoed) who's horse Tango also had the op about 3 months after mine but it seems her horses operation wasn't as succesful as she had hoped and he still displays his pre op issues.

If you want any more info or I can help you with anything please feel free to pm me. Good luck with your horse. If he's as tough as mine he'll be fine :-)
 
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Would just like to add that my mare had 3 weeks at the vet due to an infection in the wound. She then came home and had another 2 weeks box rest allthough I turned her out 2 x per day in a very small grassy area while I mucked out. This kept her sane. After that she only lasted 2 weeks, yes 2 weeks in a restricted turnout pen before jumping out and back onto her own paddock!!!

I decided that she would be better off back in her own field from there on and that's where she stayed. There was plenty of grass and she only had one session of airs above the ground before sticking her head down and behaving.

I've had her checked regularly by a physio and all is well.
 
Thanks, Tictac. It is so good to hear the positive news on your mare. Sounds like she's a star. It is reassuring too that she seemed to have a similar rehab program to my boy and that she has returned to full fitness.
 
Thanks wagtail. She's a star. I thought she would be a nightmare and she didn't kick up a fuss once, even when I had to inject her every day for about 6 weeks.

I think the thing in her favour was thatpre op, she didn't display any violent objections with her condition. She always tried her best but woudln't go forward happily. She would disunite in canter and buck for england on the lunge. But she never dumped me on the floor, objected to having her saddle on or anything like that. It was her lack of performance on a regular basis ( I just thought she was being a moo) and then finally developing an odd sort of movement that finally alerted me to a problem.

She is now happy in her work and moves much more freely but She is a mare and she is still opinionated lol Good luck with your horse. Just dont be in a hurry to get him working too soon.
 
Riverboy said:
Hi Wagtail

Just wondering how your boy is getting on post surgery?

RB x
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Thanks RB. He's doing great so far. I have been leading him out in hand since the weekend and apart from the first day he's behaved impeccably. I had to cut our walk down yesterday though because he started getting spooky in the wind and I don't want him pulling anything or getting away from me. The wind seems even colder and stronger today though! From what I can tell he seems to have a slightly longer and more swinging walk stride since the op. His scar is very neat but sticks up a bit when it reaches the lumber vetebra and he is also very tender there. In my mind I feel he has a 50:50 chance of returning to full ridden soundness. I don't think it will be easy when I come to saddling him again, and when first getting on him, but who knows? I should have a better idea when I am able to turn him out next week. I will be able to see how he moves in trot then. Will let you know. :)

How is your horse doing?
 
Thats good.

We're now week 13 post surgery and week 4 of long reining and Bell still has two raised 'ends' of her scar - vet said this scar tissue will go but over a course of years. It stayed very swolen for the first two months - until the stitches all disolved into the muscle.

She is doing well thank you - we are now on trotting in straight lines and gradually introducing circles - with the aim to be lunging by the end of week 16. That was the original date the surgeon had suggested for riding her but we feel that she is not strong enough yet - this was partly hampered by the yard we had her on insisting she stay in a pen when she should've been in a field. I moved her yards but it put her back a couple of weeks.

We're on the steep part of the rehab mountain at the moment and can't see over the otherside so its difficult, but I am keeping everything crossed. I rehabbed my previous horse from a back issue but never got to sit on him again and he was PTS 2 years ago in March so trying to stay positive.

Keep us updated as to how he gets on.

RB xx
 
Riverboy said:
Thats good.

We're now week 13 post surgery and week 4 of long reining and Bell still has two raised 'ends' of her scar - vet said this scar tissue will go but over a course of years. It stayed very swolen for the first two months - until the stitches all disolved into the muscle.

She is doing well thank you - we are now on trotting in straight lines and gradually introducing circles - with the aim to be lunging by the end of week 16. That was the original date the surgeon had suggested for riding her but we feel that she is not strong enough yet - this was partly hampered by the yard we had her on insisting she stay in a pen when she should've been in a field. I moved her yards but it put her back a couple of weeks.

We're on the steep part of the rehab mountain at the moment and can't see over the otherside so its difficult, but I am keeping everything crossed. I rehabbed my previous horse from a back issue but never got to sit on him again and he was PTS 2 years ago in March so trying to stay positive.

Keep us updated as to how he gets on.

RB xx
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So sorry that you had your boy PTS. It must make it all the more difficult this time around. Sounds like she is doing very well though. I haven't been given any guidance at all regarding rehabilitation (how often and how long etc), which is a little disconcerting. All I was told was to completely rest for two months with turnout in a small area, after the walking in hand, and then lunging in the pessoa and longlining. I guess that ideally some sort of work is done every day? At least we will be coming out of the worst part of the winter by then. It must be difficult following such a strict program when the weather is so unpredictable. It's always so much easier in the summer.
 
It is hard in the winter, but we moved to a yard with an indoor school so that makes it a little easier.

The programme I was given has been changed around a little as I felt it was too aggressive for my mare - she is not the sort to tell you its too much so was worried about doing too much. We did 5 weeks box rest, 3 weeks pen turn out (building up the size and time out), then 3 weeks walk long reining building up from a few minutes to 30 minutes and are now introducing trot and circles.

I think each horse is different though. She put on muscle whilst on box rest so we were able to take it easier with the long reining as she was developing naturally well - but if she had been dropping muscle we would have taken a more aggressive approach with the long reining to support her back.

Good luck with your boy, it sounds like he is very lucky to have you.

And thank you for your kind words about Ginger - I had tow PTS for different reasons within 6 months of each other and I try not to think about the possibility of it not coming right for her.

xx
 
Well he is now being turned out in the all weather turnout. He did go mad on the first day and spent most of the time on his hind legs! He was extremely stiff the following day but has loosened up since. He is also better for me to pick out his hind feet and stood far better than ever before for the farrier. So far so good!
 
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