Kissing spines, could this be it?

[faerie666]

Ok, first of all, I have absolutely no experience of KS, so please just tell me if I'm completely of the mark, but having read a few posts about it on here, I'm wondering if it may be a possibility in this horse.
Background info:
He's a 9yo TB, was bought from Ireland last October for pointing. We were trying to do some flatwork with him to get him to use himself better, but he really struggled with this. Then, after about 3 weeks he went lame behind.
At first we thought he twisted his pelvis as it looked unlevel, so the physio came and treated him, but he didn't improve and she suggested that there were chronic problems with his pelvis and sacroiliac joint. So he went to the vets for a work up, and chronic changes were confirmed in SI and pelvis and some bony swelling was also found.
My boss was quite peeved as the horse had a 5 stage vetting by a reputable vet in Ireland, and these changes should have been picked up. We then had the blood sample from the vetting tested, came back clear, so my boss started a claim against the vet for missing the changes.
So this horse has been in the field for the last year, always 3-4/10th lame, while this is going to court.

Today, I took his T/O rug of to check him over, and he has a small swelling on his spine, about 3 inches long, just behind where the saddle would end. This is definitely new. He gave no pain reaction at all when I touched it, even when I pressed quite hard. Could this be a symptom of KS? He is also no better or worse lameness wise than he has been for the last year.

So my question is, could it be that he was misdiagnosed?
Could it be that the lameness and reluctance to work through were caused by KS, and his chronic problems actually don't affect him at all?
If so what's the prognosis for treatment?

Obviously I'm going to get the vet to come have a look at this, but I was just wondering what people on here thought as well.
I would love for this horse to get a 2nd chance, as he gave me the best feel of my life over fences we I tried him out and I love him to bits. As it is he'll probably be put down once the court case is decided.

Phew, that's long! Cookies for all who made it.

Thank you very much for reading this, and for any opinions, good or bad.

 

[1964]

hi sorry about your horse, i dont know much my self on KS even though my haorse has it and waiting to have his op,
my horse is a TB and he wasnt lame at all at first just didnt want to work in canter and just not forward going, then one day he decided he didnt want to have a saddle on his back any more, had xray's and scans done and got KS.
he had a nerve nlock put in the affected area and on the lunge worked best he ever had, then when that wore off he started to loose his back end so he was in pain again so now we are waitng for op at willersley by Dr Svend Kold.
ask your vet for gama scans and xrays.
most people i have spoken to have said that there horses were lame with KS,
mine didnt have any lumps though on his back,
good luck keep us informed how you get on

 

[squirtlysmum]

I think the horse needs to be referred to a vet hosp for xrays and possible scintigraphy as without these its impossible to say whether or not he may has KS. My youngster was never lame with his and would hack out with no problems but as soon as we went in the school he turned into a monster so initially we all thought he was just being horrid, however one minute he'd be very giving and then literally turn into a bucking monster the next and he would buck until I came off resulting in him fracturing my back, I asked my vet for his opinion on Wills behaviour and he sent him off to Bell Equine in Maidstone where he was diagnosed with severe KS, when I saw the xray I was utterly amazed he ever let me sit on him at all. He had the op last December but its been a rocky road and a slow recovery.
It would be a great shame if your horse was put down without a decent diagnoses and if he has KS a chance to recover as the odds are good!

 

[seabiscuit]

Has he had MRI scans? X rays/scans of the back, all four feet, legs, hocks?

 

[VLHIEASTON]

This same thing happened to me too, but why wud he need putting down ? mine lives on bute permanently, i bought him as a 5 yr old , he passed 5 star vetting, a year later i was told he had kissing spines, and was lame on all legs, i had a second opinion adn took him to tim creet at newmarket who said the same.. so his jumping career ended just like that , he is now 19 and we just plod about, he seems happy enuf...but its very annoying isnt it ?!! he cud of had the op but i didnt think it was worth all the pain etc..and there was the money side too..

 

[faerie666]

Thanks for all your replies.

C_D He hasn't had any of these yet, when he went lame last year, he had both back legs nerveblocked, top to bottom, so from the stifle down we ruled everything out, especially as there were obvious changes in his pelvis and SI.
The lump on his back only appeared today, so there was no reason to look at anything else.

 

[faerie666]

VL, the reason why he would be put down is that he's not a pet, none of ours are, and, from my bosses point of view, they can't keep a horse as a field ornament, because we don't have enough land for that, so they need to do a job. He would be a lot to take on as a companion for someone else, as he's a big horse who needs a lot of food and pain relief. Also he is in pain at the moment, lame in the field, and I struggle to keep weight on him.
However, if there was a chance that he could come right with an operation, it would be worth trying as he could then be useful to someone, even if he won't race.

 

[debradley]

Hi there, my girl has just gone thru KS surgery. I would suggest you get your lad x-ray'd etc to get a correct diagnosis. If he has KS the prognosis for recovery can be very good. As I'm sure you've been reading most of us are very impressed with Svend Kold at Willesley Equine Clinic. My horse would have had to have been PTS'd if it were not for the surgery and I only made the decision to go ahead with it because I had been given the reassurance that by following the intensive rehab program she would make a full recovery and would be able to return to work fully. I know of eventers who have had this operation done and they have returned to eventing.

I think rule of thumb is that most horses with KS show different symptoms, some severe, some less. I'd really recommend getting a proper diagnosis, before giving up if you really think the horse is worth the investment. Svend Kold is very open and honest and will give you a realistic opinion of the outcome.

 

[Marchtime]

Whilst I have no experience personally of kissing spines my TB did pull a dorsal ligament (close to the sacroiliac joint) and as a result he has a small lump on his back in a similar place to the horse you describe. He was originally lame with the injury but after box rest came sound however the lump did not appear until some time after as it was the result of extra bone/tissue growth in what was apparently his body's attempt to heal. Because of this I would suggest that if he has known sacroiliac problems then maybe the lump is simply as a result of that rather than kissing spines.

 

[faerie666]

Thanks for your reply suzie,
what you said could certainly be the case. Sadly, that would mean that there isn't any hope of improving his situation. If he was going to come sound, he would have done it by now after a year of field rest. I was just wondering really if there was a chance of a different prognosis. When the vet comes to see him we will see what she thinks.

 

[BethH]

Am very sorry to hear about your horse, you clearly care very much about giving him as much of a chance as you can despite the fact that he is a horse bought for work not a pet. I am not convinced that this is a KS case, most that I have come across (mine included) don't have lumps. One way to tell is if they have a big problem with upwards flexion through their back and I am sure you would have some behavioural issues with it.

If there are bony changes going on I wonder whether if not the same as Suzie's horse, whether you could have some sort of spinal or other arthritus as the symptoms sound similar to other neds I have heard of with this. Sadly, although I am a completely soft touch and would do anything to give a horse a chance, there are always those you can't help. I have my fingers crossed you vet finds a diagnosis that means the horse can be sorted out and I hope that you can find some peace with it as well. Good for you for continuing to try to find a solution, hoping it all turns out ok.