Kissing Spines - how to treat - advice needed.

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st5050

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Hi all,

I'm looking for some advice on what to do with my horse. The back story is long and will probably unfold in response to your questions throughout the thread.

Synopsis - early DJD (DL joint) one hock worse than the other (two bone spurs) but present in both. Has responded well to joint injections (Sep)

Kissing spines 3 areas of concern. No obvious signs except from bucking in canter transition to not going forward, planting and trying to buck having been brought back into work after 4 months off to rest while dealing with joints. He was cleared by Vet, Physio and Chiro and to return to work but hasn't settled and is now on field rest while I work out what to do. Vet and Chrio think KS OP

Here is a link to the back x-ray
http://tinypic.com/r/w9ilvc/8

I know how little or much they react is relative to each horse and he's obviously not happy under saddle - but I think this would this be consider a mild case?

Vet was against the OP initially but as above he hasn't settled and is now in favour of it.

I'm not in favour of the trad OP (and he has never been mentioned that he needs this) I have spoken to the surgeon who would do the Lig Snip OP and he would have to cut up to 5 areas (no bone touched)

I have until next July to decide on the OP.

I guess my big question is can his horse be rehabbed back to a 'strong' 'pain free back' if time is taken with (long lining, hacking, pessoa etc) ??

I've found a yard that have said they help (lots of turn out, quiet hacking, start with danlion initially to allow him to work and then wean him off it once he is using his back correctly - and build up to ridden work.

I am committed to the horse financially but I have demands on my time - esp as I want to compete next year (like a loon buying a new horse in the new year) so I'll have to trust this yard to do it right.

The horse is only 6 years old.

Is surgery inevitable?

Sorry if this is fragmented - it's all very stressful....

I am a member of the Facebook group and have done lots of research but there are less stories about those who have rehabbed back to riding without the OP.

Thank you so much in advance to anyone who replies.

St5050.
 
I'd have the OP before your inurance runs out. It is keyhole and only six weeks to being ridden. It radically altered the way mine moved. I have no long term story, sorry, he was put down for other reasons, but his movement was fabulous.

The x Ray looks early, but not necessarily mild, he has several areas where impingement is altering the shape of the bone the look of it. On the other hand, the gaps are good and seem like he really ought to be able to be trained, for now, to stop it happening. Only if you don't have the OP, and can't get him right with training, you'll then have to pay two grand for the OP yourself.
 
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Thanks cptrayes.

That's what my gut tells me too....if I put the time in slowly - getting him working correctly. Can this be lessened / reversed....?

I have until July next year before I have to make a decision (£2k left on his insurance)

My question is for those with experience of this is (looking at the X-rays like you have) does he look like a good case for this approach?

I have nothing to lose except money by trying this approach...

Before the lameness work up that resulted in the joint injections he was only showing in canter transitions, he was happy jumping but was always very sharp - out hacking esp.

Otherwise I go for the OP in Jan and spend the winter/spring rehabbing.

Thank you - it's great to get it out!
 
My horse was diagnosed with KS about nearly two years ago now, before I bought him. Treated with steroids and then I have rehabbed him with remedial saddler, physio, acupuncture (holistic vet), chiropractic treatment and patience.... - he went back to eventing after the steroid injections, and then had a setback due to saddle problems, now back on track and his pretty much working like a normal horse now - touch wood! X-rays looked pretty similar to yours, so in my experience, no, the operation isn't necessary and with hearing some of the things that can go wrong with it (sorry, edited, traditional op, I meant here...), I'm very glad it was never considered for him. Very much depends on the causes though... so many varying experiences. Do PM me if you want any more info.
 
Have you tried steroids? In mild cases they can allow the horse to work properly, which I turn builds muscle and may end up avoiding the operation. In more severe cases the temporary relief from the steroids confirms the KS diagnosis.
 
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http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-flWB802Vl...0/SPINE-Thoracic-09_07_2013-14_36_56-625.JPEG



st5050 said:
Thanks cptrayes.

That's what my gut tells me too....if I put the time in slowly - getting him working correctly. Can this be lessened / reversed....?

I have until July next year before I have to make a decision (£2k left on his insurance)

My question is for those with experience of this is (looking at the X-rays like you have) does he look like a good case for this approach?

I have nothing to lose except money by trying this approach...

Before the lameness work up that resulted in the joint injections he was only showing in canter transitions, he was happy jumping but was always very sharp - out hacking esp.

Otherwise I go for the OP in Jan and spend the winter/spring rehabbing.

Thank you - it's great to get it out!
Click to expand...


Well if you compare his x rays with mine, top, I'd have to say that he has every chance of working well without the operation because of the lack of any serious damage and the size of the gaps between the processes. I think in your shoes, not wanting to operate really, I would give it three months and see.
 
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thank you, cptrayes & Booboos

Booboos - No, he has not had steroids directly into his back yet as he had Tildren in SEP so we were hoping this would placate his back enough but it seems the KS is active...as he has not settled under saddle.

There is the added complication that he knows he can get a rider off by bucking as well. I have sat all of them as they are not big ones but it does grind you down and you have to ride quietly and forward but still quiet aggressively - -something I've been less able to do since the KS diagnosis wondering if he is in pain.

I think steroids are the next step and then as cptrayes see how he is...

st5050
 
I got my KS girl knowing she had (mild) KS so insurance timescales aren't an issue for us..... I am trying rehab with physio/ acupuncture, in hand classical dressage and ridden classical dressage. Have also done a barefoot rehab as I think her foot angles weren't helping her. So far so good and I plan to re-xray in the spring to see where we are.

My theory is that if the ligament op anyway lets the tissue between the processes stretch a bit, over a longer time frame - and if the horse isn't too far gone to let you - you could achieve the same. I may live to eat my words, tho! .... We'll find out in the spring!
 
Thanks Kelpie, that's what I'm thinking too! (This should be correct right?) I think it's about trying to keep the pain away while they learn to use themselves correctly? Either via steroids, acupuncture etc...I too have a long journey ahead of me....
 
st5050 said:
Thanks Kelpie, that's what I'm thinking too! (This should be correct right?) I think it's about trying to keep the pain away while they learn to use themselves correctly? Either via steroids, acupuncture etc...I too have a long journey ahead of me....
Click to expand...


I think the thing is, no-one really knows, but it does make a lot of sense to me that, provided the bones aren't already fused together, you should be able to retrieve the situation without surgery. I think insurance has a lot to answer, though, as most people are forced into deciding to do surgery within the insurance year. Happily I don't have that constraint.

We'll see - I'll give it my best shot1

I hope that you manage your re-hab OK also :)
 
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