Kissing spines ligament resection - 6 weeks

Really chuffed for both CPT and BBB and their respective ponios, here's to a long pain-free life to you all and a massive thumbs up for going against box rest too, I'd give my hind teeth for a 90ft barn and enough freedom to turn out on however many acres ! Keep up the reports, vety interested to hear how they progress.
 
Hi if you have not please join our group on facebook horses with kissing spine there are lots fo people on there who can help with any questions or maybe your advise will help others
xxx
 
annunziata said:
Hi if you have not please join our group on facebook horses with kissing spine there are lots fo people on there who can help with any questions or maybe your advise will help others
xxx
Click to expand...

Sorry I don't 'do' Facebook. You can point them to my blog address below or to this thread if you like. Happy to talk to anyone about my experiences :)
 
Whoop whoop. We have a breakthrough at trot on the arena. He's realised it doesn't hurt and in his least favourite weather conditions was asking permission to trot and behaved beautifully. He's also hacking up and down my biggest hills, and they are BIG, with no issues at all. We only have canter to do now, which can wait until he offers, then apart from the short length of time I ride him for, he's a normal horse.

Rehab instructions are for him to be on walk only hacking at the moment. Oooops :)


Busycubed, how is Paddy? What are you getting up to together???
 
ITPersonnage said:
Really chuffed for both CPT and BBB and their respective ponios, here's to a long pain-free life to you all and a massive thumbs up for going against box rest too, I'd give my hind teeth for a 90ft barn and enough freedom to turn out on however many acres ! Keep up the reports, vety interested to hear how they progress.
Click to expand...

After 22years, I still never let a day pass without blessing the luck that got me here.
 
Hi CPT, just walking paddy at the moment, still walking him in hand or long reining first to keep up with his foot rehab, then get on him for 5-10 minutes and will be building it up. So far he's been as good as gold, no evidence of pain at all :)
Vets instructions are a month of walk, then introduce trot & walk/trot for a month, then introduce canter. Am hopefully going to take him to the local agricultural college for a course water treadmill sessions to really help build his muscle up.
I am aiming to have my first lesson on him in December all being well!
Everything is new to paddy because he's never been off the yard other than in a horsebox since I moved him here just before Christmas last year, though he seems to be taking it in his stride do far.
It sound like everything is going well with your boy!
I am jealous that you have hills - Cambridgeshire is soooo flat - the only hills (if you can call them that - more like slight inclines) we have are too far for me to get to just yet!
 
Great news B3

FWIW I thoroughly approve your vet's plan, Paddy has been out of work for a year and as you say, your area is sooooooo flat. Even walking in for their tea gives my boys a workout :D
 
53 days post op.
11 days of ridden work.

He is stacking on back muscle quicker than anyone would believe possible (without the Equitop Myoplast the vet told me to use)

He is so forward and free hacking that it seems a miracle.

This morning he went unasked into canter, just because he wanted to.

One of his feet that used to slant inwards is now pointing outwards - there has been some very big change somewhere inside his shoulder, as this foreleg now moves totally differently from how it used to.

I'm at a complete loss to understand why box rest and very restricted turnout is prescribed as the rehab for this operation. Ace is streets ahead of where he would be now if I had kept him confined and let his muscle tone degrade. At this rate, he will be ready to go back into full work before he was supposed to have been on unrestricted turnout, and that's taking it slowly to allow for his new way of moving.

I recommend this op to anyone, but not the prescribed rehab!
 
Here is Ace's latest video. You'll have to excuse the mud, I simply couldn't be bothered to clean it off only to have him back like it tomorrow morning! I have posted it unedited right from the start, and you will see what happened because I asked him to trot too soon so that video man could get out of the cold. He thought it would hurt, and reacted accordingly. But that is, of course, nothing to what he used to do when it hurt him, so I know he wasn't in pain. It's also clear from the feel of his back under that saddle that he wasn't in pain.

I find it very interesting how he wants to work so stretched and low, when this was the last thing he used to want to do. Of course it is completely intentional to work him overbent at this stage if that is what he is happy doing.

This is 54 days after the operation, the twelth day he has been in work and the eleventh session of work he has actually done:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=...top_uri=/watch?v=cJAkfsdzwgs&feature=youtu.be
 
The aspect ratio on the video is wrong, making him look too short striding. I am trying to correct it but you tube will not ply ball at the moment :(
 
Very interesting about the Equitop Myoplast, have ordered some for Rusky!

It's really important how the horse feels for you and only you know how he has changed from before to after, but just based on this video he could be more engaged and round as opposed to on the forehand in walk and he does seem uncomfortable in upwards transitions and in trot. Out of interest what does the vet say about this video? Is this to be expected because of remembered pain?
 
Booboos said:
It's really important how the horse feels for you and only you know how he has changed from before to after, but just based on this video he could be more engaged and round as opposed to on the forehand in walk and he does seem uncomfortable in upwards transitions and in trot. Out of interest what does the vet say about this video? Is this to be expected because of remembered pain?
Click to expand...

Booboos the horse has been working eleven days and he was previously unrideable without four Bute.

The transitions are remembered pain, he does not do that on hacks or if I walk him longer first. They are nothing to what he used to do! And if my cameraman had not been freezing in the wind, I would have been able to overcome my own fear to send him on, when they would have been beautifully up and forward. His stickiness in the better transitions is my fear, hence the jacket you can see.

The video was taken last night, I have not sent it to the vet yet, but given that I sent them an unrideable horse, I expect they will be as delighted as I am.

In another few weeks I should be able to start training him to be a dressage horse again. If he continues to progress as he is now, that should be a lot of fun :)



Ps anyone viewing on a seven inch tablet, the picture appears to be shortened, making him look less fluent. Try viewing on a full screen if you can.
 
Last edited:
Booboos said:
Very interesting about the Equitop Myoplast, have ordered some for Rusky!
Click to expand...

When I researched it and then contacted them I found there was no research whatsoever to prove it worked.If you see my thread about it, you'll find a couple of things which are researched and do work and don't cost a fraction of the extortionate amount they charge for Equitop Myoplast.


What's wrong with Rusky? Nothing serious I hope.
 
Last edited:
If he was unridable before, then that is a massive improvement! If I was viewing him, not knowing his history, I would be very concerned by the tail swishing. However, he is bound to be sore because he is using muscles that were underdeveloped before and this will make him uncomfortable at first. Horses with KS are often unable to do back lifts. Supporting the weight of a rider requires them to use those muscles. I think looking at the video, he does have some genuine discomfort, but IMO it is due more to muscle fatigue and strain and should improve with time. A lovely horse Cptrayes.
 
cptrayes said:
When I researched it and then contacted them I found there was no research whatsoever to prove it worked.If you see my thread about it, you'll find a couple of things which are researched and do work and don't cost a fraction of the extortionate amount they charge for Equitop Myoplast.


What's wrong with Rusky? Nothing serious I hope.
Click to expand...


Oh well I just ordered a tub! I'll try to find the thread, I hadn't seen it.

Rusky is retired following 18 months of mystery symptoms and various attempts at diagnosing. It now seems he has some kind neurological deficit or permanent muscle damage (probably the latter) because of chewing on the bark of a yew tree as well as strong evidence (scintigraphy) of KS which is not responding to steroid injections and Tildren. I briefly considered the operation for KS but since we don't know how many of his problems are due to the effects of the poisoning it's too much of a gamble to put him through. My gut feeling is that his main problems are not from KS as I don't think he is in pain.

Have you tried the Equiami with your boy? Obviously you may want to clear it with your vet, but I find it helps enormously with getting them to stretch their backs which should help with the KS recovery.
 
Wagtail said:
If he was unridable before, then that is a massive improvement! If I was viewing him, not knowing his history, I would be very concerned by the tail swishing. However, he is bound to be sore because he is using muscles that were underdeveloped before and this will make him uncomfortable at first. Horses with KS are often unable to do back lifts. Supporting the weight of a rider requires them to use those muscles. I think looking at the video, he does have some genuine discomfort, but IMO it is due more to muscle fatigue and strain and should improve with time. A lovely horse Cptrayes.
Click to expand...

You're right Wagtail, the tail swishing is a big issue, which I wrongly ignored when I bought him. I have video of him doing it when he was,with the dealer I bought him from.

So in fact, the tail swishing is so very, very reduced that it's a great sign, though someone seeing him for the first time wouldn't realise that.

I suspect it may now be ingrained habit that I will always have to put up with, but it's better than not having him at all :)
 
Booboos said:
Oh well I just ordered a tub! I'll try to find the thread, I hadn't seen it.

Rusky is retired following 18 months of mystery symptoms and various attempts at diagnosing. It now seems he has some kind neurological deficit or permanent muscle damage (probably the latter) because of chewing on the bark of a yew tree as well as strong evidence (scintigraphy) of KS which is not responding to steroid injections and Tildren. I briefly considered the operation for KS but since we don't know how many of his problems are due to the effects of the poisoning it's too much of a gamble to put him through. My gut feeling is that his main problems are not from KS as I don't think he is in pain.

Have you tried the Equiami with your boy? Obviously you may want to clear it with your vet, but I find it helps enormously with getting them to stretch their backs which should help with the KS recovery.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear that Booboos. I certainly wouldn't recommend the surgery if pain relief has not done the trick. Both steroid injections and big Bute doses had a miraculous effect on my boy.
 
It's very complicated, he does a hind leg collapsing thing which is not associated with KS and doesn't really have evidence of pain (no bucking, no rearing, no spining or taking off), the more he works the less willing he is to engage and work from behind and he has now lost an enormous amount of muscle from his back end. I am hoping that he will recover enough to be OK retired because at the moment he is not looking very good.

Anyway what can you do, that's horses for you. I am so glad your boy is doing well, this new surgery seems to be quite remarkable!
 
Booboos said:
It's very complicated, he does a hind leg collapsing thing which is not associated with KS and doesn't really have evidence of pain (no bucking, no rearing, no spining or taking off), the more he works the less willing he is to engage and work from behind and he has now lost an enormous amount of muscle from his back end. I am hoping that he will recover enough to be OK retired because at the moment he is not looking very good.

Anyway what can you do, that's horses for you. I am so glad your boy is doing well, this new surgery seems to be quite remarkable!
Click to expand...

Has he had is suspensories scanned?
 
My wobbler last year started being noticeable by a hind leg collapse. If he's knuckling over you might consider that too, if you haven't already.
 
Yes, also never been lame behind and nothing came up in the scintigraphy.

I don't want to hijack cptrayes tread! I have posted quite a few details about R's developing problems in CR, but there is also a longer thread here with photos and videos: http://www.france-forum-frenchentree.com/viewtopic.php?f=65&t=135120
If you can think of anything that hasn't been tried yet do let me know, I'd be very grateful but I am reconcilling myself to his retirement now.
 
No problem BB, I've looked at the video and realised I saw it on your other thread. I haven't got the time to read everything you've been through with him, but he has a lot of similarities to two horses that I have known. One had EPSM and the other ESPA also known as DSLD. I expect you've already considered them, but it doesn't hurt to repeat it unnecessarily I guess.
 
Thanks for the suggestions. He's had multiple neuro exams and they were all normal, also x-rays and ultrasound of neck and back, no sign of nerve impingement (he's been examined by two neorologists and had a consul with a third and a radiologist), he's had a muscle biopsy (no EPMS, no myscular dystrophy). i'd never heard of DSLD but he doesn't quite fit the symptoms and the scintigraphy would have shown the damage to ligaments (I think). He's been through the mill with diagnostics and the best fit is the poisoning from the yew trees which is rare and weird so no one knows exactly what has happened.

Anyway thanks for your help.
 
Booboos, did they ever do bloods on your boy? If so, did you get full copies of all the blood reports, and have you checked that everything really was within reference range? In particular, worth knowing what CK was.

Sarah
 
pootleperkin said:
Horse looks fab CPT - as loose as a goose in comparison to how I'm sure he was a wee while ago! Congrats - It feels fab when you get them back from the brink doesn't it!
Click to expand...

Hell yeah! This operation saved his life :) Out on hacks he's suddenly turned into a forward going horse, in fact I'm having to stop him from trotting. I couldn't be happier with his progress at the moment. I've even had the confidence to book myself a new trainer after my last one moved away two years,ago.

What is absolutely stunning is how straight he is in front now. He's having to get a whole heap of muscles in his shoulders used to working differently as well as under the saddle. It will take a while yet before I ask him to show me what he can really do.
 
Have you got a physio working on him?
I think there's every reason to hope that stuff in the school will cease in time.
Does he do a good upward transition on the lunge ?
It's a shame it's not summer then you could have started schooling in the corner of a field then moved on done a bit somewhere else .
I don't know your horses history but they remember the pressure of being expected to stuff in the school that hurts for ages .
I have found it important to find ways to make the school an non pressure place going stuff like hack into school one leg yield each way couple of transitions big pat walk about and out and do the main physio dressage stuff else where this may be difficult at this time of year.
Great result .
 
No, I don't have a physio because he is improving so fast that I can't see what else they would achieve. I also had a very bad experience with a fully qualified physio last year, who hurt him badly but missed his kissing spines. I do physio on him myself though.


His transitions are great on the lunge and under saddle when I am not rushing to keep the cameraman from freezing :)

I made a mistake posting a less than perfect video on here where people don't know how bad he was just before the operation. Those skips are caused by my fear of an explosion more than anything else. If I had had the guts to send him on instead of turning him, he would have been fine, as he was the day before.

I like your idea of schooling somewhere else, but I would have to drive him somewhere because slopes and circles is asking too much right now. You can see how far we had to dig out to get a flat arena :) And I only do the flatwork for a maximum of fifteen minutes at the moment, so it just isn't worth it.

His fear memories are weather related as well as location. I could do without this cold and rain today!
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top