Kissing spines - opinions please or similar experiences (pics)

cob&onion

cob&onion

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Currently going through diagnosis as to why my 6yr TB mare finds it so hard to work correctly and avoids contact. She is also very stiff behind especially if she has more than a week off, (could also be related to problems in her hocks)although in regular work you cannot tell - this also showed on flexion tests.
Her back (where the back of saddle fits) was very tight and tense to the touch, physio was called and found her T16 - 18 very prominent and quite a bit of pain when pressure applied to the area, also found to hold her tail to the right slightly.
Been given a course of exercises to do (long reining over elevated poles with side reins to get her working long and low, to engage her hind quaters and stretching down and working herself correctly)
Two weeks later - still very tender to touch, been bucking alot and refusing, putting up a big resistance when asked to go over poles - again don't know if its stropiness or pain??
I have also noticed recently that when i put her roller on for long reining she is getting nippy - something she has never done before. Also she has generally been a bit bolshy especially when leading down the field - ie rearing up alot but this could be as she has has not left the yard or been ridden in 9 weeks.
My overall view of KS was extreme behaviour such as bucking/broncing/rearing etc but her behaviour has not been extreme, just a little off?
Review in 2 weeks, then if no better she will need x-rays etc
Had a chat with my vet again (she referred me to physio after i reported above problems as mare very sore across back) and she seems to think Kissing spines, although only x rays etc would show them up, and over all a not very promising report. :(
She is not insured for vet bills so i think if it is KS and with also the underlying hock issues (very likely) then i don't think the operation will be worth it TBH, however if it does ONLY turn out to be KS and the other problems are just linked to that then i guess i will talk it through with my vet.
I have facilities to keep her on our land if an early retirement is required, but am trying not to write her off just yet...........no chance of putting her in foal (if she can no longer be ridden) as i don't think she conformationaly (SP) correct

This was when she first arrived - noticeable roach back and prominent spine seen when she was under weight.

10xv6z6.jpg



Up to weight and a bang up to date pic (taken around 2 weeks ago) - she is also very straight through her shoulder, long sloping pasterns and slightly cow hocked so her conformation is also against her.
I have marked the black area where the tense/sore muscle area is and the red area is approx where the prominant DSPs are (t16-t18)

2lt23qw.jpg


Opinions,advice and experiences welcome and appreciated- although please make it constructive!
 
I've had a few of experiences of KS, two in geldings, one who exhibited true bolting behaviour, the other who would buck, lose steering and eventually sort of bolt. Another two cases in mares, one who was generally not a pleasant horse, very spoilt with a poor attitude to work that wasn't helped by KS, and the other who was a sweet mare but just couldn't cope with any work even after an operation and was always lame and sore as a result.
I would advise you get a set of x-ray's taken as a first resort so you can know for sure, there is no point speculating what to do in the future until you know what you are dealing with.

I echo your thoughts about not breeding from her, very refreshing to see someone who appreciates their mare isn't suitable.

Don't panic, just get the x-ray's and talk it through with your vet.
 
Brief synopsis of my mare.

Bought her at 8 years old, always reluctant to move forward freely, stiff through back and hardly ever soft into a contact. Would disunite and buck going into canter. However didn;t object to having saddle or rider on and didn;t exhibit any external soreness along back. Just thought she was being ' sour'

At the age of 10 still the same despite back, saddle teeth etc being checked reguarly. Then started to display a diagonal lameness. Had vet out who thought hind leg lameness to wich I said no and asked for a full lameness work up with x rays as I suspected a problem in the back.

X rays confirmed 7 impinging vertabrae. Operated on last september and back in work early spring 2011 with no problems.

Operation cost over £5k as my mare initially had steroid and tildren injections ( £1K) as an interim measure before I decided to put her through the operation. She did suffer post op complications when the wound became badly infected due to an adverse reaction to the sutures. Strong injectable antibiotics were required over a long period of time.

Mare is now 11. Operation was a success as my mare did not have any other underlying problems and in her case it is thought that her KS was heriditary.

Hope this helps
 
TicTac said:
Brief synopsis of my mare.
always reluctant to move forward freely, stiff through back and hardly ever soft into a contact. Would disunite and buck going into canter. However didn;t object to having saddle or rider on and didn;t exhibit any external soreness along back. Just thought she was being ' sour'
Click to expand...


Sounds like my mare..........
Anyone else?
 
I agree with the others, get the xrays done then look at the situation after that. You can speculate about KS for months, but only an xray will reveal if that is the problem or not.
I also applaud you for deciding not to breed from her. My mare has Crystal Magician bloodlines (for the Arab people) and I'm often told I should breed from her. How could I when I don't know if she would pass it on, not to mention the extra strain on her back and hips that pregnancy would involve?
 
My horse was sold in 2007 when i was travelling australia and i never got to meet his new owners (my mother sold him without me knowing) i decided to trace him and found out he had been sold on......i had him from a foal and when he was broken in he was fine and after a couple of year he started with behavioural problems ...bucking and nappingbut nothing every too nasty and once he was warmed up he was fine although when lunged it looked like he was really week through is back legs and seemes like hock problems.....i have managed to trace his new owner and it turns out he had kissing spine......he has recently had the op and is making good progress (very expensive too) there is alternate treatment offered such as steroid injections into the spine and a lot of stretching and massage.
 
Hi,

Best to get her back x-rayed and then you can decide, she might be ok with just steriods (although it is just a short term fix) ... my mare was no extreme AT ALL in her behaviour....post surgery we have had some problems with her right hind but have decided this is a conformation issue and I am just working her through it!

Be sure that your saddle fits well and is not narrow (obviously dont be riding now, i mean once she has been treated)

What area are you in?
 
Forgot to mention, the TB with KS on our yard also had shock wave therapy. He seems a lot better to groom and handle but owner has not ridden him yet.
 
cob&onion said:
Currently going through diagnosis as to why my 6yr TB mare finds it so hard to work correctly and avoids contact. She is also very stiff behind especially if she has more than a week off, (could also be related to problems in her hocks)although in regular work you cannot tell - this also showed on flexion tests.
Her back (where the back of saddle fits) was very tight and tense to the touch, physio was called and found her T16 - 18 very prominent and quite a bit of pain when pressure applied to the area, also found to hold her tail to the right slightly.
Been given a course of exercises to do (long reining over elevated poles with side reins to get her working long and low, to engage her hind quaters and stretching down and working herself correctly)
Two weeks later - still very tender to touch, been bucking alot and refusing, putting up a big resistance when asked to go over poles - again don't know if its stropiness or pain??
I have also noticed recently that when i put her roller on for long reining she is getting nippy - something she has never done before. Also she has generally been a bit bolshy especially when leading down the field - ie rearing up alot but this could be as she has has not left the yard or been ridden in 9 weeks.
My overall view of KS was extreme behaviour such as bucking/broncing/rearing etc but her behaviour has not been extreme, just a little off?
Review in 2 weeks, then if no better she will need x-rays etc
Had a chat with my vet again (she referred me to physio after i reported above problems as mare very sore across back) and she seems to think Kissing spines, although only x rays etc would show them up, and over all a not very promising report. :(
She is not insured for vet bills so i think if it is KS and with also the underlying hock issues (very likely) then i don't think the operation will be worth it TBH, however if it does ONLY turn out to be KS and the other problems are just linked to that then i guess i will talk it through with my vet.
I have facilities to keep her on our land if an early retirement is required, but am trying not to write her off just yet...........no chance of putting her in foal (if she can no longer be ridden) as i don't think she conformationaly (SP) correct

This was when she first arrived - noticeable roach back and prominent spine seen when she was under weight.

10xv6z6.jpg



Up to weight and a bang up to date pic (taken around 2 weeks ago) - she is also very straight through her shoulder, long sloping pasterns and slightly cow hocked so her conformation is also against her.
I have marked the black area where the tense/sore muscle area is and the red area is approx where the prominant DSPs are (t16-t18)

2lt23qw.jpg


Opinions,advice and experiences welcome and appreciated- although please make it constructive!
Click to expand...

Hi,

My mare was diagnosed with KS, she was sore on her back and the physio came out to work on her and she was very stiff, she then went short behind and showed intermittent lameness behind, she had xrays on legs as the vet couldn't work out what the problem was so all legs were xrayed and they were fine, my mare didn't like me getting on her and was very tight when I first rode her like a coiled spring, she also didn't like the saddle being put on she would go to back of stable put on, as nothing was found the vet suggested her back being xray and discovered she had 2 vertabrae very close and one that had fused, my horse wasn't insured either and the cost of 4xrays on her legs and 4 nerve block and xray of back came to about £800 this was about 2 months ago.

The vet gave her a cortisone injection which she thought might need reinjecting every 12 months. She had 6 weeks of physio, lots of pessoa work getting her to work long and low, lots of long reining and physio treatment everyweek, also stretching exercises, I bought her a magnetic rug as the suggestion of the chiropractor as she said it should ease the tightness, I also read that Devils claw which is a supplement that would help as its an anti imflammatory, so she is currently doing all these things and she has recently done a few dressage tests and show jumping as seemed fine so fingers crossed that I can keep it under control.
 
My gelding has just been diagnosed with KS. He was very choppy, hollow but still very forward going. Bit of tenderness through the back, but stood to be tack up and let me on everytime. He has alsways been like a coiled spring. I first thought it was the saddle causing problems, so splashed out on a nice new one, but there was no change. Had both Physio and Chiropractor both look at him, on advice from the vet, but nothing came up, so we took him for xrays.

He has had 2 shockwave sessions, is due a 3rd one, but as I have managed to screw up my insurance and there seeming to be no improvement, I am thinking of calling it a day and retiring the ginger beast.
 
I had my boy PTS in may due to kissng spines, i didnt go to much into it as I didnt feel the need too, he had other issues too.
Heres a pic of him being ridden before vets. approx 2 yrs ago edited to say excuse postion he had just rodeod down long side!


147.jpg
 
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