Kissing spines

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grey_gelding

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had my horse spike for six months now. When i bought him he had mounting problems but was fine once on him. I had him vetted and all was well. Gradually over time i sorted that problem and thought i had a great horse until about six weeks ago. While out hacking one day he bolted and bucked me off then proceeded to go over me! Luckily only bruises and hurt pride. Shortly after he did the same whilst in the school this time i landed on my head and knocked myself out. After this every time i mounted he would feel really tense and bolt all the time.This was so out of character for this horse so i had the physio out and she said he was really tense in his back, after this i had the saddler out and the dentist to check his teeth, all was well with saddle teeth etc. He still continued to bolt everytime i rode so i thought it was time for the vet.
We took him there a couple of weeks ago and he was given a thorough work out, the vet could find nothing wrong with him but i knew this horse and pushed for back x rays just for peace of mind and to eliminate any kissing spines, the vet honestly felt we wouldn't find any and that it was a mental issue. I was right three vertibrae were touching. So just to make sure this was the problem he gave him long lasting pain killing injections and steroid injections between the vertibrae.I then left him a week before riding. He was a different horse,really relaxed and no bolting! I have ridden him five times now and tried everything to try and make him bolt just to be sure but nothing.
My dilemma is this, the vet says i have several options, I can carry on riding him and see how long the steroid injections last and then have him injected again,this could be a month a year or five years,we really don't know.Or we can have them removed by operation.The issue is the insurance,after 12 months they will not pay out for this condition so by having the operation at least we know the problem will be sorted.
I'd love to hear from anyone whose horse has had the op or anyones opinion as to what i should do. The affected vertibrae are directly under the saddle and as three are touching, just removing the middle one would solve the problem.
 
I feel your pain! And understand what you are going through!

Def do not waste any more time with steriods etc and just go STRAIGHT for the operation.
Be VERY wary about doing them at the right hospital. Under the hands of a good surgeon combined with good aftercare the horse should have a very high chance of coming right and returning to full competition (obv I'm not a vet, but the top surgeon is very very positive about the fact that his operations are successfull)


Ok so my story is this- spent years battling with my horse believing his problems were due to my bad riding/inexperience and his greeness/sharpness. His massage therapist just kept going on and on about how tight his muscles were and that he was in a really bad way so I decided to get him checked out by the vet. Vet instantly thought Kissing Spine; got him X rayed; yep 3 kissing vertebrate right under the saddle in the middle of the back.

We had cortisone injections in the back; session after session of shockwave therapy; more cortisone injections- minor improvements were shown. Horse still napping, did not want to jump, very stiff, could not engage, do right circles etc.

Vet wrote horse off. Said there is nothing you can do, turn him away, then see how he is.Me in tears, put posts up on this forum ( this is 2005/2006) People were SO helpfull and went on and on about how the KS operations are most definately VERY beneficial!.They pointed me in the direction of a fab surgeon. Told my vet that I wanted to refer my boy to this surgeon. My vet was very reluctant and said that my horse was NOT a candidate for KS surgery and that it would not solve his problems, but she referred us anyway. Surgeon saw the horse for the day- scanned him/x rayed him, watched him being lunged etc and was adamant that the operation would definately help him there was no question about it- no ifs or buts. He says that he has done top dressage horses/showjumpers/eventers and racehorses and nearly all of them have returned to top level and done very well. My surgeon does the op differently to other hospitals so he has a very high success rate

So my horse had the op- which is simply removing excess bone calcification- started an intensive walk program straight afterwards-(building up to 2 hours walking over 6 weeks post op) then he did a 6 weeks intensive lunging program in the pessoa over poles-a tight pessoa- to make him use his back ( this was a very forced exercise-but it had to be done ) so 3 months post op he was really really muscular with fab top line.
Had a few problems because he escaped into the field and tore up healing scar tissue in his back but that was fixed by the physio's H wave machine and ultrasound machine ( do reccomend LOTS of H wave therapy post surgery ) and then a saddle fitter fitted him up with this BIZARRE contratpion/numah thing which made him go mad and not want to be ridden so due to all that stuff it was a while before he was back and fit again.

Anyway- its now been 1 year and 8 months since his operation- and he has been fit and in work, and competing with no problems for a year now. Has won/placed every dressage test he has done and is jumping really well.
Physio/vet can not fault him anywhere!
 
PM me if you need help or advice. My boy was operated on 18 mths or so ago. I had massive behavioural problems on the ground, ridden, you name it but I knew he was a sweet horse and couldn't understand what was wrong, it took 2 years to diagnose as he was bi-laterally lame. My choices in the end were PTS or Operation as he became so dangerous, but he is part of our family and we felt we had to give him a chance.

If your horse is fab and what you want and you are prepared for the hard work and long journey, then ask to be referred to Svend Kold at Willersley Equine clinic in Gloucestershire as I believe he is the best surgeon for this, is intelligent in his procedure and does several a week so he has had plenty of practice!

Ryan has done very well since his op, I won't pretend that it has all been plain sailing or that I don't still have some issues, especially his confidence which can take a knock quite easily but I am pleased I had the op as he is now out of pain and up until a couple of months ago when he lost his pair bond to cancer he has been fabulous, since then given the bitter winter and lose of his friend he had been a bit more stressed than usual.

In 18 mths, he has had op, been rebacked/gone through a rehab programme, learnt to use his legs properly, coped with pretty much everything I have asked of him and we even managed to get him out to 3 shows over the summer to do pre-lim dressage. He has the all clear to start jumping now too so I feel it has been a success, but the whole thing is tiring and can be disheartening at times so you have to be prepared for a bit of an emotional rollercoaster.

Hope that helps, it sounds as though you think a lot of your horse so may be worth giving the op some thought as the palliative route didn't work for Ryan and in my own case I felt the op was the only way to resolve the problem. The rehab is the key to success so I can always give you some ideas if you decide you want to contact me.
 
Have seen this so much over the years, reaction to pain being put down to behaviour, and from a vet!! Good for you sticking to your guns, an owner always knows their horse best and they should have listened to you and not the reference book! it's so sad as horses are rarely nasty by nature and trully put up with a huge amount of pain before crying out big time!

I agree that you should go ahead with the operation ASAP, it has a good success rate and as he is insured make sure you get him referred to a good Hospital with an experienced Ortho surgeon.

Carrying on with the injections is potentially leathal for you and him, as you don't know when the effects will wear off , you could be anywhere when it happens and his reaction could be worse than before.
 
hmmm, i would have a different opinion entirely! firstly xrays are not always the best way to determine kissing spine, bone scanning is sometimes much more helpful, but unfortunatly quite costly.
have you looked at your horses feet????
the usual case scenario is long toe , low heel syndrome which puts the horses feet off balance hence the horse compensates in other ways with regards to postures aand using himself when being ridden. IE becomes very tight in his back and has a reluctanc to move forwards into a contact. the hocks when in standing are more underneath him to unload the back.

personally i would only operate as a last resort as have seen things go wrong more than right and at the end of the day, most vets are not neuro surgeons! I would explore all other options first.
once the feet are balanced and have got used to it, they can be worked in a way to build up their top line so that the surronding muscles can support the back. injections are good short term while the muscles are building up.
a combination of vet, farrier and chartered veterinary physiotherapist (ACPAT registered) could help you. they should all be able to work together to help you achieve goals.
 
I can see where you are coming from but I know this horse and his feet are fantastic and well balanced. We have a very good farrier. There is no reluctance to move forward and go into a contact.
The xrays quite clearly showed KS and the fact that the localised steroids have worked well must be a good thing surely?
 
My horse moved amazingly, like I'd never seen him move before after his steriod injections in to the back, I felt that it told me that this was the problem.

I do agree other things can cause back problems and need to be checked, but Kissing Spine causes so many other secondary symptoms. My horse had scintigraphy to show a hot spot that could then be x-rayed, the x-rays showed the spine kissing. Grey gelding needs to first consider if she believed she wants to go ahead with the palliative route which is a very personal choice and then if she decideds to consider the op, then refer her x-rays to an expert in this particular form of surgery. The chances of success in surgery are less optimistic for older horse eg teenagers upwards or those with other serious ailments to hinder them although it is become pretty much a routine procedure. One of my concerns about Ryan with the palliative route, apart from the fact the steriods didn't work for long, was the need to keep him continually very fit and muscled as it was putting so much pressure on me to keep him worked and he is a horse that likes his food, stores it well and is very hard to keep the weight off. The op has allowed me to be a little more relaxed about his lifestyle although it hasn't really helped his weight!!!!
 
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hmmm, i would have a different opinion entirely! firstly xrays are not always the best way to determine kissing spine, bone scanning is sometimes much more helpful, but unfortunatly quite costly.

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Two separate bone scans failed to pick up the kissing spine in my horse, it wasn't until the vet asked permission to x-ray her spine that the problem could be seen.
 
my horse is of to willersley on the 16th january for the operation, scared but cant wait.
he had a steriod injection and only lasted 4 weeeks but ive never seen him move so well, but like you know you dont know how long they are going to last.
ive taken alot of advice from BethH and Debradley on here and it has been really good, my horse was refered some where else first and i wasnt happy with what they were telling me, retire him or pts.
i couldnt accept this as he is so good natured and young i had to give him what chance i could so i spoke to alot of people on here nas got my vets to send xrays and his details to willersley and now he is going for the op,
go for it they are the best you can also look them up on their site and read about him.
wish you all the best keep us up to date will let you know how my boy Oz gets on.
 
Hi there; Honey had three removed by Svend Kold at Willesley Equine Clinic back in June 07 and I don't regret it for a moment. I wouldn't have gone anywhere else. Svend has a very unique way of doing this operation only removing everyother offending vertebrae. Within 16 weeks of the operation/rehab I was given the go ahead to ride Honey again. Unfortunately, due to an unrelated accident with a cattle grid that hasn't happened yet, but I have started to bring her back into her rehab work now and will be going back onboard in March hopefully.

The op was the best thing I did for Honey, my only other option was PTS and that just wasn't in my vocabulary. I now love to watch Honey work from the ground and in the field. I can see her move in ways that she's never been able to do before, and as soon as the operation was over she seemed to sense that the pain she had been in previously had gone and she immediately became her loving gentle self again. As Beth says although it is a bit of a roller coaster, I have actually really enjoyed doing the work with Honey, but the rehab programme, although not hard does take a good deal of commitment from you. The more dedicated you can be the better the results you will get.

I wish you good luck in whichever decision you make, and although it may feel like the bottom of your world has just dropped out, believe me it hasn't. Please feel free to pm me if you have any questions.
 
Hi, I am after some advice, my boy has moderate to severe kissing spine, he needs 5 prosses removing, vet thinks he can do it under sedation, will take about 2hrs.
My thing is my insurance has nearlly ran out, i have about 400 pound left,surgery will cost anything from 1,500 to 2,500 at worst. My boy has just turned 10, , we have had phsyo, steroid inj, and then had gammer scan. The only thing the gammer scan picked up was his back, no props any where else. I love this horse so much, so i will never sell him, so do i go for the op, or do i use my money to buy something else. bearing in mind he is a good horse. Would love to hear from any one who has been through op with there horse, i am thinking of going for op, but dont want to put my boy through a op for nothing. thanks so much any help advice would be much appreciated, email me please at vickver@aol.com thx
 
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