Kissing spines

[ycbm]

I don't think you've got a diagnosis yet of what your horse needs a rehab for. You need more investigations to find out what is wrong. As far as I can tell from what you have written, your vet hasn't blocked out the back to test if it's that, or investigated the hind legs at all. They just seem to have jumped to the conclusion that it's the back on the basis of two close, but not touching, process which would be found on a high proportion of back x rays of horses with no issues.


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[Last chance]

I don't think you've got a diagnosis yet of what your horse needs a rehab for. You need more investigations to find out what is wrong. As far as I can tell from what you have written, your vet hasn't blocked out the back to test if it's that, or investigated the hind legs at all. They just seem to have jumped to the conclusion that it's the back on the basis of two close, but not touching, process which would be found on a high proportion of back x rays of horses with no issues.


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Yes your correct in a way, firstly all flexion, lunge exams done, no lameness found as I had mentioned in earlier posts, he using process of elimination, my vet did inform me that over the years he's saw very similar back xrays where horses are competing at high level. The rehab is just to see if any difference occurs with this in place, then revaluation in 6-8 weeks and move on from there. I think atm it's like finding a needle in a haystack. It's jus the horse I bought for confidence has unfortunately turned out the opposite and person I bought her from, (seems a reputable dealer), he didn't have her long enough, only a couple of weeks, when i bought her to know of any of this. I think personally shes just been passed on by original owner.

 

[ycbm]

It's not a needle in a haystack yet. Your vet has not done the most basic tests of blocking ot the hocks and then the hind suspensories, both of which are a far more common cause of the things you are describing than ovaries or two close processes in the spine.

Is he a specialist horse vet?

I'm betting that your vet has decided that this is behavioural and is giving you an exercise based rehab plan as a placebo.

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[Last chance]

It's not a needle in a haystack yet. Your vet has not done the most basic tests of blocking ot the hocks and then the hind suspensories, both of which are a far more common cause of the things you are describing than ovaries or two close processes in the spine.

Is he a specialist horse vet?

I'm betting that your vet has decided that this is behavioral and is giving you an exercise based rehab plan as a placebo.

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Yes he's a equine specialist vet. If he's thinking it's behavioural why then the more experienced the rider, the worst she is? We have had previous horses in past who had to have jocks etc blocked out and this was carried out by same vet after trot ups at and it was from us noticing whilst riding or jumping, a continuous change in way of going.

 

[be positive]

I think you are correct in guessing the last owner passed her on to the dealer without fully investigating, she probably looks sound so will pass a vetting and like most dealers if they buy cheap enough and the horse seems ok they quickly sell on without ever really testing them, the horse then ends up with a more caring owner who soon finds they have bought a potentially serious issue and not a nice uncomplicated horse, as there is no real history the vets often go round in circles, if the horse is not insured it will be an expensive exercise for the new owner and the people responsible for putting them in this position have got away with it once again, the dealer is not blameless as they were happy to buy a 'good' horse at what was probably well below market price, the last owner may well have been told it was behavioural and passed her on as she did not have the skill to deal with the issues.

I would want to speed up the diagnostics and get answers before investing too much time, emotion or money into her, I would look into her history if there is anything on the passport to help and see how much can be found out and be prepared to call it a day if nothing can be treated easily, 12 months turned away would be worth considering if money becomes an issue.

Ours who had her hocks injected is coming on really well, her front legs are improving now her shoes are off and her hocks are more comfortable, her behaviour could easily have been considered the primary issue, the first vet definitely thought the KS was the main problem, it was only when seen by a top specialist the hocks were looked at more thoroughly and even then the xrays were clear so would have been ruled out without the minor response to the nerve blocks.

 

[ycbm]

I'm suggesting it because I'm struggling to understand any other reason (unless you told him you had run out of money for diagnostics, which would be fair enough) why an experienced equine vet would tell you to delay eight weeks doing a physio rehab on one not-kissing spinal process which hasn't even been proven to be the issue, when you have a horse showing a classic response to much more common hock and/or PSD issues which are known to cause kissing spines.

My money is on the PSD, because she passes the flexions and how she reacts to being asked to carry more weight behind by a more experienced rider

I wish you well with the rehab. I hope it resolves things for you.

 

[Trouper]

Before you fire off money in all directions have a read of the recent post on Tom Beech's Facebook page (The Osteopathic Vet). It is a casebook write up of a very interesting case for any of us who have a problem which might have an unusual cause or more than one. I have been down the hock injections and KS ops - all to no avail - before I heard about Tom and got him out. I just wish I had heard about him sooner. In comparison to the money you might spend overall, his fees are worth every penny and he will take a holistic look at your horse. Do contact him.

 

[Last chance]

I'm suggesting it because I'm struggling to understand any other reason (unless you told him you had run out of money for diagnostics, which would be fair enough) why an experienced equine vet would tell you to delay eight weeks doing a physio rehab on one not-kissing spinal process which hasn't even been proven to be the issue, when you have a horse showing a classic response to much more common hock and/or PSD issues which are known to cause kissing spines.

My money is on the PSD, because she passes the flexions and how she reacts to being asked to carry more weight behind by a more experienced rider

I wish you well with the rehab. I hope it resolves things for you.

Thanks. No we hadn't got to stage whereby we informed vet that money was a issue.

 

[Last chance]

I think you are correct in guessing the last owner passed her on to the dealer without fully investigating, she probably looks sound so will pass a vetting and like most dealers if they buy cheap enough and the horse seems ok they quickly sell on without ever really testing them, the horse then ends up with a more caring owner who soon finds they have bought a potentially serious issue and not a nice uncomplicated horse, as there is no real history the vets often go round in circles, if the horse is not insured it will be an expensive exercise for the new owner and the people responsible for putting them in this position have got away with it once again, the dealer is not blameless as they were happy to buy a 'good' horse at what was probably well below market price, the last owner may well have been told it was behavioural and passed her on as she did not have the skill to deal with the issues.

I would want to speed up the diagnostics and get answers before investing too much time, emotion or money into her, I would look into her history if there is anything on the passport to help and see how much can be found out and be prepared to call it a day if nothing can be treated easily, 12 months turned away would be worth considering if money becomes an issue.

Ours who had her hocks injected is coming on really well, her front legs are improving now her shoes are off and her hocks are more comfortable, her behaviour could easily have been considered the primary issue, the first vet definitely thought the KS was the main problem, it was only when seen by a top specialist the hocks were looked at more thoroughly and even then the xrays were clear so would have been ruled out without the minor response to the nerve blocks.

Thank you for your reply. I think you have probably hit the nail on the head with your theory.

 

[Last chance]

Before you fire off money in all directions have a read of the recent post on Tom Beech's Facebook page (The Osteopathic Vet). It is a casebook write up of a very interesting case for any of us who have a problem which might have an unusual cause or more than one. I have been down the hock injections and KS ops - all to no avail - before I heard about Tom and got him out. I just wish I had heard about him sooner. In comparison to the money you might spend overall, his fees are worth every penny and he will take a holistic look at your horse. Do contact him.

Thankyou.

 

[whiteflower]

I don't understand what makes you think this is a pre existing condition when you purchased 5 months ago ?? Have I missed that somewhere ?? You said horse was fine when purchased and it's entirely possible the 'damage' if it is the spine causing issues has been caused in the 5 months you have owned him ?

 

[Last chance]

I don't understand what makes you think this is a pre existing condition when you purchased 5 months ago ?? Have I missed that somewhere ?? You said horse was fine when purchased and it's entirely possible the 'damage' if it is the spine causing issues has been caused in the 5 months you have owned him ?

I wasn't saying it was. I was at complete loss as to what was going on with horse and was hoping for advice,. As I mentioned in original post I took things very easy with her to start with, getting her settled and comfortable in her surroundings before commencing lessons etc and it was only when work level increased and for information this was a gradual increase that things started going wrong. I am just at lost as horse that was advertised turned out to be everything they said she wasn't and I am not going to be one of these people who pass her on but now have a horse I dont know what I will be able to do with.