Know anything about protein lumps ?

[holt889]

Pony has had lumps appear this year which haven't gone and the vet says they are protein lumps. Their arrival coincidences with a move to a fresh paddock in the summer and being feed a new batch of hay in September. I have since changed the hay and they look slightly better but become more visible when he is worked. The vet also gave me a shampoo to use twice weekly which I have done. He is 25 and has never had them before. Because of his age the vet is reluctant to give him steroid injections ( increases risk of laminitis?) he is feed dengie senior chaff and alphabeet.
I just wonder if anyone has any knowledge/experience of protein lumps or any advice that may help me understand why it happens !!

 

[be positive]

I have used a de-tox to help get rid of these type of skin conditions, either NAF or Global herbs restore, both have worked.

 

[holt889]

Thanks for that... I'll have a look at them.

 

[smiffyimp]

My boy has had them before, pretty much because of the same reasons. Id take him off the alpha - its high in protein, use unmolassed s.beet and maybe a supplement. I never really worried about my boys and they do go. You'll probably notice a difference when the grass dies back.
Have a look at some Herbal anti-inflammatories - im a fan of Global Herbs. Also try putting Sudo-cream on them - anti-inflam. They are just a build up of protein that the body cant remove, which suggest too much protein in the diet. They can also be caused by bites etc, but these usually occur when its hot and they are sweaty - is he rugged? Might be in this weird warm weather we're having, he's too hot and getting sweaty....just random thoughts

 

[sbloom]

I think they seem to be called protein lumps because the horse reacts to the protein in an allergen, not that the horse has too much protein in its diet:

www.dodsonandhorrell.com/help-advice/allergies-intolerances.html

 

[smiffyimp]

I think they seem to be called protein lumps because the horse reacts to the protein in an allergen, not that the horse has too much protein in its diet:

www.dodsonandhorrell.com/help-advice/allergies-intolerances.html

This is a different thing - this is an allergic reaction. Protein lumps can be caused by too much protein in the diet and the system cannot break it down. Protein is hard for the body to breakdown to amino acids to be utilised or removed. If it isnt removed it builds up.

The lumps could also be caused by bites for example, this would be an allergic reaction and why steroids would be used, to calm the immune system down. (Think of of hayfeve for eg - I get this badly and use a steroid nose spray to calm my immune system down)

Trick is, figuring out what is causing it. Easiest way is to reduce the protein being fed, if no improvement them he may be allergic to something. I wouldnt have a problem giving a steroid shot, but wouldnt wnt it to be a regular thing. He might need it to calm things down

 

[holt889]

Thanks for all the info. Since I changed him back onto his old hay they have gone down lots. Will cut out the alpha beet now to see of that's the issue !

 

[sbloom]

This is a different thing - this is an allergic reaction. Protein lumps can be caused by too much protein in the diet and the system cannot break it down. Protein is hard for the body to breakdown to amino acids to be utilised or removed. If it isnt removed it builds up.

If you Google "protein lumps horses" you'll see just as many articles as I did saying that they are one and the same.

And as to what does happen when you feed too much protein it seems to be much more metabolic than this, from Susan Garlinghouse, expert on EPSM:

When the body utilizes excess protein for energy, it snips off the nitrogen end of the protein strand and breaks up the remaining amino acids for participation in several energy-producing metabolic pathways. In terrestrial animals, excess nitrogen goes through several chemical reactions to form urea, a waste product which is primarily removed from the bloodstream by the kidneys and excreted by the body in the urine. A certain amount will also be excreted in the sweat, and is in part why horses on a high-protein diet often have thick, patchy, lathery sweat which is less effective in cooling than is a thin, clear, watery sweat.

In order to excrete large amounts of excess urea, the horse must drink more water and produce more urine, which in turn has a higher ammonia content. In a stall-bound horse, more bedding and labor be required to control the increased urine out put. In addition, the increased ammonia fumes can irritate the upper respiratory tissues, as well as simply creating an unpleasant environment for both horse and owner. Even in horses not kept in a stall, the urine output may create a greater degree of dehydration during endurance events. These disadvantages alone more than outweigh the minimal energy benefits obtained from feeding high levels of alfalfa.

And incase anyone worries she is talking about feeding alfalfa hay, so alfalfa makes up a huge part of the diet, not like us using it as part of a bucket feed.

I'm happy to be corrected but I am pretty sure it's another of the protein myths that have built up over the years. It is a reaction to a specific protein, which effectively is an allergic reaction, rather than a result of feeding too much protein.

 

[cands]

My pony had a similar thing when spring grass came through a couple of years back. We introduced him to the grass slowly (yarded at night out during the day) and this seemed to reduce any lumps, swelling etc. Alternatively you could bucket him