KS Support Group!

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HollyP

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Hello all, hows everyone doing?

I'm still waiting to hear whats happening with the surgeon referral (ok so it only been 2/3 days!) the time just makes me think about the risk im taking etc. also the thought of the rehab after is not great what with it coming into winter. How strict is the walking in hand lunge then walking again? its just i get to the stables at 6 (if im lucky) then have toleave by 8! can they go on a horse walker (not that my yard has one!) was thinking of making a make shift one with a rotating washing line (please note im joking!) .... is there any T.O?

I'm going to ask about moving into a bigger stable and getting a mirror (mare weaves a treat!) ...anyone had any experience with mirrors?!

xx
 
I think the important thing is to take it one stage at a time. the rehab will greatly depend on what your surgeon says I think. there seems to be 2 schools of thought - the box rest/walk in hand route and the intensive lunging route. I think the intensive lunging route has the better success rate but we can only do what we have time to do.

I made the sad decision to move yards next week in preparation of my boys KS operation (if they are able to operate). I have moved to a yard further away (26 miles one way!) which has everything - indoor and outdoor school with good surafces, excellent full livery, horsewalker and on-site hacking through woods so that I can safely walk him in hand up and down hills without venturing onto public land (in case he runs off and I have to catch him - he hasnt got anywhere to go!).

It adds almost an extra hour to my travel time but I have to put his needs first to give him the best chance of success.

I met a lady on my yard whose horse also had KS about 12 years ago - the injections apparently worked for him though and he is in full work at the age of 18. He also has a sacro iliac strain which she said was related. She just lunged him intensively for 3 months together with the injections and he is sound enough for the work she wants to do with him.

My scan is on Thursday which is 2 days time and I am quietly panicking. The results will be discussed on Friday as to whether they can operate of whether he should just be retired. There is no other option for mine I am afraid, so I dont really have to explore all the options as you do. Mine is also 7 years old, so I have to try my best for him as he is too young to retire (and I am not choosing the third option which I cannot even type let alone say out loud, despite being told to by my lovely ex-fellow liveries!)
 
good luck CB Anglo
my horse injured himself ( not k/s)- he's 8 and i agree you've got to do the best you can. i too am ignoring the third option!! at the momment all going well, fingers crossed
 
Good luck CB anglo and Holly P

Lass had her op 4weeks ago today i havent looked back yet i definately made the right decision.
The yard staff and liveries on my yard cant believe how well she looks.

We are up to half an hour walking a day in hand at the mo have got another couple of weeks walking then fingers crossed all going well i can start the lunging.

I must admit it is pretty intense and stressful but is well worth it if i get the final result i want.

Keep us posted
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My physio has told me not to get surgery. I dont think iv cried so much in my life last night! Im so confused, she says she has no muscle etc. and now its sacroiliac so vets have to come out for all that. people just dont seem to understand that once insurance runs out that its i have no money! she also said that KS horses are high maintenance and need physio all the time etc....also where my horse is so stressy she is putting muscle in wrong places and burning off all the weight and tensing up and wrecking her front legs. she says that my main goal atm is calming the horse down (!)

the vet suggested a bit ago of putting her on acp but im sorry im not drugging my horse i cant do that.

im so emotional! looked into retirement places (just so i know my options) and its so expensive thats just not an option...unless i befriend a millionaire and get them to buy me some land with stables and pay for a groom! and third option makes me cry even more so cant think about that! if only she was a calm horse!

sorry rambling on. i just want my horse back.
 
Right - first thing is that your physio is not helping you at all.

In these cases I trust the vet - not the physio. No offence to her, but she isnt the one dealing with the scans, the xrays and the surgery. She may see a lot of KS horses but mostly these will be the ones without the surgery.

Yes KS horses are high maintenance - but then most horses are! Before the KS was diagnosed, my boy was getting his saddle checked before every ride (by me) regular checks from the physio and chiro, massages etc etc. all of that is still going to be the same after the surgery. Yes, you wont be able to ride for a couple of months but you can use that time to lunge, do lots of in hand schooling, build up the right muscle so that when you do get on she will be even better.

Have you tried a calmer? The thing is, sometimes sacroiliac and KS go hand in hand because the horse has compensated for the KS hence straining the sacro region. Read my post above about the 18 year old at my yard. If you saw him galloping around with my horse with the SI then you would see there is nothing wrong with him. And she does everything on him - dr, sj and xc. so dont give up now. And you would be surprised how cheap grass livery is - if you need to. once you rough a horse off and they learn to live out and arent in work etc they are surprisingly easy and cheap to keep.

What did your vet say about surgery? And what did Willesley say?
 
Hey thanks

It gets so difficult with everyone telling you to do different things!

Bridie never seemed to respond to calmers....it all started getting really expensive....physio said something about a moody mare supplement to manage her hormones (she isnt a moody mare though and barely comes into season) she got stressed when new horses came onto the yard and were calling....she has now dug 2 massive holes in the matting from her weaving! looking into stable mirrors....

Literally just had a missed call from physio i know she was calling the vets today....

it just gets difficult because she is a stressy horse and its been 4 months now with no treatment just seems like wasted time! I just dont like the thought of her living out and i also cant commit the time to grass livery....im sure if it had to happen i could find help....

havent heard from vets or the surgery!

All my money goes on Brides so she is spoilt rotten and she is well cared for at the yard but it all costs money and noone seems to give me a good outlook!!

is the sacro treatment a steriod injection? any rest or is it a get on with your lunging jobby!
 
There are 2 schools of thought for SI. One is field rest and the other is lunging to build topline to support sacro ligament. I gave mine 6 weeks off for various reasons - one being an abscess. he will be lunged this week and next and then ridden out in walk to build up topline which melts away if he is not ridden 4 times a week.

which calmers have you used? you need to use one with the right ingredients, ie if it is magnesium based and she does not have a magnesium deficiency then it is no good. also what are you feeding her? If she isnt in work then she doesnt need the same amount of food.

to be honest, it sounds as though she would be better on grass - at least she would stop weaving? And if they are managed properly i.e. fed and rugged appropriately I think horses do much better being on grass. several people on here compete with horses on grass livery and i think you will find that the constant moving around keeps them very fit. if i had a choice, I would have both of mine on grass livery at a yard with good facilities with a stable for emergencies only.

In this case I would be listening to vet really, if you have a good vet. I think the injections rarely work for KS and in your case I thought you had already had them hence why you wanted the surgery? also, I suppose you have stopped riding her now, so I bet she will be even worse. After I stopped riding mine he was so stiff in the field - he actually hops with his back legs in canter now because his back is so stiff. I have just ordered the equilibrium massage pad to see if this will help him loosen up a bit and he also has a magnetic rug which has helped him no end. he is also on superflex (and has been since he was 5) which I think helps with general stiffness as he is holding himself awkwardly now.

the problem with working them through it is that they have to be kept in constant work - god help them if they have an abscess or are lame as they become very stiff and the topline deteriorates very quickly.

You have to think positively - I just bought mine a lovely jeffies hunting breastplate!
 
hi i know what your going through it took a while before my boy got his op done and it was done at willesley in january, were still not on boaed as we have had other issues with him but we are now getting there slowly. my horse was a stress head i had him on steady up but didnt seem to calm him down much so i tried him on naf magic and that has worked great he is a different horse and since having his op,
it is haerd work and its cost me a fortuneto get people to help me out and nearly given up on him twice as he has a mental issue with things on his back because of the pain he used to be in.
his muscle tone isnt great along his back ib=ve only had a physio out twice to him he is building up more on one side than the other but she said she has noticed some difference in him from her first visit which is good, and her price is reasonable she is great, dont let your physio put you of go with your vet they are the ones that know best.
its not an easy road but really worth it, and it is frightening to think that all this work has got to be kept up all his life now, unless i dont get back oon board and then it will be retirement for my lad i couldnt even think of the third option at all.
any way i wish you all the best and listen to your horse aswell if you can i did and we have never looked back and keep people up dated on here as they are all great for support ive had loads of Bethb and dbradley they have been great
sending you lots of vibes
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Seriously, would take your Physio's words with a pinch of salt, she clearly knowns NOTHING about KS ! God people like this make me SO cross!!

a.Your horses behaviour is 100% due to the pain of the KS.
b. Sarcrolliliac strain/pain is 100% caused by KS it is not the other way round, contrary to other people's opinions.
( think about it- if a horse is holding and bracing its back because it is in pain it really is going to be causing severe muscle pain in other areas, espec the saccroliliac area!)
c.The horses that have had KS surgery do not, in general need constant physio or whatever to keep them on the road. Once the back has been built up to being nice and strong, and muscular, then the horse can hold its own muscles and it should not be getting afflicted with any scenarios that require constant physio treatment for the rest of its life.
My physio said that my KS horse was absolutely perfect and better than normal horses in terms of how good his muscles were- before I sold him he had gone a year and a half without needing any physio! This was a horse that had been needing physio treatment every few weeks before his KS op!!

d. The fact that your horse is so badly behaved and skittish, and not any better with calmers is typical KS. So many horses that have had the KS op have complete changes in personality right after the operation- from nervous/erratic to being calm , happy and normal!

So I would forget what your physio is saying,she probably only has experienced of horses that have had the wrong type of KS operation and then gone on to have the wrong rehab programs so its all gone tits up for them. Get referred to Willesley asap!
 
Thanks guys, she hasnt even seen what she is like on the lunge! She left me a message saying she had called my vets and explained her findings and what she thought and the head vet will call me today or tomorrow...(my vet is on hols!) she should have had her file and xrays sent to Willesley already.....

she apparently had extremely poor muscle (what do they expect she has been worked for 4months and only a bit before then as i felt something wasnt right!)

all tooooo much stress! will talk to the vets but my physio now scares me!
 
I think Bridie has always been a bit stressy (hence the weaving) which is what is concerning Holly_P. I was suggesting a calmer just so that she was better being stabled, and also to revisit what she is being fed as obviously if she is being fed competition mix or something that might contribute to excess energy and possibly more stress.

My boy has been the same personality wise in the stable and to handle etc. He loves being a pet, and loves being indoors and out - as long as he has food and attention. I havent ridden him in a while but I am sure if I showed him his saddle he would freak.

I really think you should go with the vet on this one and when it comes to the rehab get a good physio who is going to keep you positive - there is no point having negative people around when you are already stressed and fragile. You need people to work together with you and your horse and to keep you motivated because it isnt going to be easy so you need to have the best enviroment. This is the reason I sacked the first 2 vets and the first chiro - useless people who hadnt a clue but were willing to do numerous lameness work ups without actually concluding anything. I wasted 3 months with them which I will never get back otherwise I would be 3 months further down the road now.

Be more assertive and ring the vet and ask him what Willesley have said, otherwise ring Willesley yourself. Dont wait for the physio to call you! Dont waste any more time.
 
right im getting motivated! seen a missed call on my phone from unknown number....must be the vet...will check when i fnish work!

iv only had her 2 years and have a feeling she hasnt been right the whole time....where she has dropped off so much weight we are trying desperately to put it on....she is on 1/2scoop of C+C with 1 Alfa A oil am/pm and lunch is 1 scoop pony nuts 1 scoop Afla A oil.....she is much better on C+C.....

right i need positive people around (you guys are fantastic and make me feel so much better!) this is a fantastic support group.

will let you know what vet says!

xxxx
 
I wouldnt worry too much about weight at the moment. She is probably stressing it off. Does she have access to good grazing and forage - I would be increasing this at the moment. Yes, she will have no muscle tone but as long as she is fit and healthy enough for the op that is what you need. You build up all the muscle etc after the op and you start from scratch so can build up evenly on both sides.

I would have her on a high fibre low starch/sugar diet with as much grass/forage as possible and then a balancer or something like linseed which will help with condition. I also have mine on fenugreek which is good for promoting muscle development.

dont waste time on people who arent going to help you and dont be afraid of anyone. Ask the stupid questions and I personally think the sign of a good vet is one that isnt annoyed when I ring randomly and ask stupid questions and he has to repeat the same thing over and over again to me. It is easy when I talk about other people's horses but when it comes to my own I am in complete meltdown and the shock and fear usually means that I forget to ask all the right questions.

What's that old saying - if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem. Sorry to sound cheesy but you need motivation to get this sorted. Ask you vet about the possible SI problem (mine with KS is very tense in the SI region not least because he got cast) as I said above the way they compensate for the KS pain can lead to SI problems which is what happened to mine hence the shortness in the near side hind.
 
Holly p i totally agree with the above you need to ignore the physio go with what your vet is telling you and also yourself you know your horse better than anyone.

It is hard people gave me many different views before i made the decision and i looked at all the options before going for the op.

The money insurance part is also a stressful time i was up against a bit of a dead line thats why i pushed through for the or so far nfu have been great.

Lass was very eratic, stressy nervous behaviour before the op, i couldnt keep the weight on her now its the complete opersite she is on a diet as my vet thinks she is porky i am only feeding her a handful of nuts and chaff day and hay.
I really think this is due to the pain from the ks that is now not there she seems so much happier in herself.

All i can say is keep perserving and chase your vet and ask lots of questions.
 
Hi everyone!

I spoke to the head vet (covering for my vet whos on hols) he is lovely and has made me feel better in that he is more inclined to go with the other vets decision to go forward for the op. As the injections wore off so quickly he feels its unlikely to improve if we carry on. he is a bit thrown by what the physio has said about sacroiliac and also that she hasnt even seen her lunged!

he is up for the op but we have decided we just need to make sure that we dont over look sacroiliac now before we go ahead. im calling him tomorrow to sort out him coming out this week....he was at home and didnt have his diary (it was after 8pm!)

Now im feeling like my yard arent supporting me, im not allowed to move to a bigger stable (mine is the smallest on the yard!) simply because she would be the first horse people would see coming onto the yard and because she weaves she doesnt want that! and also said if it was her she wouldnt do the surgery and i think its because she doesnt want to help with the rehab.

ARGH!
 
Been there. moved my boys to a top livery yard last week. it is 10 miles further away but they have top of the range facilities, large stables, top care. it is hard enough without people trying to make it harder for you.

i think you only get this chance to get it right. if i were you i would be looking for somewhere that is going to help you. my yard is going to be walking him in hand 3 times a day etc and i will be up walking him out on weekends etc im something different to look at.

new vet sounds good-dont be afraid to ask questionsunds good - dont be afraid to ask questionsim something different to look at.

vet sounds good - dont be afraid to ask loads of questioim something more interesting to look at.

 
CB Anglo have you watched the happening? the end of your message made me think of the movie!! haha

There are not many good yards in my area im at one with fab facilities (if your riding!) there just isnt anything else around!! im feeling a bit trapped in that respect. love the people but they just dont seem to want to help out (not that horsey)
 
sorry - something happened to my computer last night.

I would consider a yard where she is going to get the best care. I moved my horses to the next county to ensure this. If the stable really is too small (my old was tiny) and the turnout provisions rubbish (mine were horrendous - basically a mud bath) then you need to think about the bigger picture. It will be ages until you are able to ride her, so I would move somewhere for rehab and then when she is back to being ridden move back onto your current yard if that is what you want.
 
operation a go! vet agreed with other vet...physio not right (she was trying to claim that sacroiliac injury was primary and KS was a coincidence! vet confirmed not so....but that obviously with her non existant topline her sacroiliac joint had more strain the usual) so he is sorting out talking to the surgeon!

oh and mum fancied the vet so il try and hook that up
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