Lack of fitness over the BE 80 course (Pulborough)

[be positive]

I have just looked through the results from Pulborough and at the bottom end/elim. of the 80 there is a really wide variety of experience, from the first timers or riders on 4 yr olds to several riders that have been doing BE, with varying degrees of success,for 10 plus years.
I also found the results from Calmsden interesting, a horse I picked out as poorly prepared and ridden was at its forth event,having an E then 20 xc at 80 then 20 xc at 90 followed by 40 on sunday. Its best sj was 8 on sunday its worst sj 20 plus 6 time at an 80.
Its probably a little unfair to pick out one rider but they have been doing BE for more than 10 years so should by now have developed some idea of the required standard.
As for unaff. events the xc are usually ok. when run at BE venues although they are sometimes a mix of heights, and can be a bit more technical. but the sj courses are often very interesting especially the PC events where they can be built higher than BE and are often built by a helpful committee member.

 

[Firewell]

I suppose when you have a smaller class it is more accessible and more people will try it. BE80 is perfect for me and my horse as it is decent enough that he can 'see' it yet the course is flowing and good for baby's. I think the little bank and introduction to skinnys was perfect to lead the horse and rider to the next level.
The problem with some unaff courses around this area is that there is a massive difference between the 2ft6/2ft9 course and the 3ft course which is around the intro fences. There are questions in the 2ft6 course that's closest to me that I would never ask my horse on it's first ODE, flimsy fences with nasty skinnys and combinations that are replica of BE novice fences but smaller. It's because the same people do the same 2ft6 course year in year out and the organisers have to make it more challenging to stop the whole field going clear and there is no suitable option for the genuinely green horse and rider.
I say I haven't done XC before but I did do a lot in the PC, yes it was years ago but it teach me how to XC, I was on all the teams and we won the area champs individually and my mum rode at int level BE. I said to my mum while untacking J that I did not go at the XC speed I would have gone with my old horse, I know I did not, but J wanted to back off the last few strides before he jumped and rightly or wrongly I let him, I did what I felt was best on the day. We went clear and he's been clear every time we have done XC so I'm happy.
I wish I had seen other riders now to be able to comment more effectively. I know a lot were flying through the finish and not stopping or getting off their horse afterwards but hey. There were also a lot of horses having problems SJ.
There were more problems at this BE80 than when I went to Iping maybe people see it as a more accessible course as it is used a lot for RC and PC events.
I dont take any XC course with a pinch of salt, my mum nearly dying because her horse did a rotational fall taught me that. I can't wait untill my horse is experienced enough so I can cut the corner and kick on after the fence without patting him, he's going to be awesome!
Tbf when I looked back I couldn't believe the amount of people that didn't finish but my point is that you cannot tar everyone with the same brush as some people will have crap scores because it was just a bad day. Everyone has to start somewhere.
Also a big point, I didn't see any trainers while I was there. Not one in any of the warm ups, not that it mattered to me but I thought that was the point of keeping BE80 safe?

 

[Orangehorse]

I attended a clinic in the far off days when I was eventing, and the instructor kept yelling at everyone to keep their bum out of the saddle when galloping between fences. He wanted there to be 5 holes difference between dressage and cross country. It was a lesson I remembered and now I wince when I see someone slap into the saddle at every stride.

 

[kerilli]

I dont take any XC course with a pinch of salt, my mum nearly dying because her horse did a rotational fall taught me that. I can't wait untill my horse is experienced enough so I can cut the corner and kick on after the fence without patting him, he's going to be awesome!
Tbf when I looked back I couldn't believe the amount of people that didn't finish but my point is that you cannot tar everyone with the same brush as some people will have crap scores because it was just a bad day. Everyone has to start somewhere.
Also a big point, I didn't see any trainers while I was there. Not one in any of the warm ups, not that it mattered to me but I thought that was the point of keeping BE80 safe?

Hmmm, "everyone has to start somewhere"... but not at BE, surely?! seriously, it used to be something to aspire to, surely it still should be - nobody should be going to BE events, even at BE80, without having at least understood and practised basic XC riding. i totally understand about local and unaff events with dodgy courses and bizarre measuring, i've been put off them for life after being expected to jump a radiator at one poxy HT years ago (!), but there are LOADS of good xc courses for hire, loads of good trainers, there is NO excuse at all for turning up at an event with absolutely no clue of how to ride xc!
nobody's saying that some of them didn't just have 'a bad day', heaven knows we can all have those, they're saying they saw too many riders with NO idea of how to ride xc with their bum out of the saddle for starters, and/or finishing exhausted on visibly tired horses. after a sub-5 min xc...
was it a BE80(T) class (in which case Trainers should have been there)? however, i know that the take-up of places on the Trainers' course-walks etc has been risibly bad in the past, and hardly anyone has sought their advice, so maybe this initiative is being phased out?

 

[barneyhunter]

Having evented a long time ago and managed to get my novice horse Advanced 3DE fit (old style 3DE) because I got completely over enthusiastic with making sure he was fit enough (and subsequently managed to get inside the time on the steeplechase and 40secs inside the time xc as I was carted)!! I also rode 3 others a day for fitness work and worked out in the gym (and I mean a serous workout) 5 days per week for at least 1.5hrs - I know how wrong you can get it (my joints are now knackered from over doing the gym)

Could BE give 80 and 90 riders a guide to fitness? Obviously based on a AVERAGE horse that they need to be able to do xxxx minutes cantering up hill or 3 times xxxx minutes with a 1 min trot recovery if interval training. They could add to this that a rider should be able to do all this in forward seat and be able to maintain a conversation at the same time? (I'm not suggesting they all join a gym)

This would fulfill the requirement for the classes to be "educational" as they are helping in the preparation rather than just on the day? It doesn't mea they will read it but it ma help.

 

[LaurenM]

I did a local hunter trials and sat upright most of the way round. I'm not heavy by any means but having had a back injury in April I am not physically able to hold certain positions for a few minutes. I also took the slow and steady approach for educational reasons although my mare must have thought I meant gallop..

 

[Starbucks]

How fit do horses need to be to get round a BE80 though? Think mine would be able to skip round one pretty much out of the field!!!

 

[avthechav]

Me and another H&H member had a BRILLIANT day jump judging at ALW unaff in the summer. This was not affiliated but we judged for the 90/ 100 and then 80.

I could not believe what I was seeing. The 100 was fairly uneventful...we saw Spottedcat looking VERY professional and in general the standard was high and what u would expect- but the 90 was something else!! 2/3 of people looked fab- what you would expect, but the remaining 1/3....

We saw lots of people sitting upright the whole way round;
A fair amount just charging madly at fences;
1 girl WALKED between fences;
3 seperate people rode entirely off the coures, missed out 2 fields and came out behind the newer bank complex missing out an entire section;
Several people had over 5 stops and control requested them to be stopped and they tried their hardest not to;
Very unfit horses (and ALW is a flat track);
One girl on a nice looking but big forward going horse, completely overbitted, never let horse move out of a very collected canter, horse ended up rearing before at least 4 fences. She was eventually stopped by the TD;
Some horses that never looked like they had seen a XC fence before!!!!

The 80 on the other hand was mainly people who looked in their comfort zone or on babies. What I dont understand is why people want to do things that are so far out of their comfort zone...apart from the danger factor it really can't be nice!! I understand the need for challenge but to be so far away from comfort zone just cannot be nice!!...rant over

 

[kerilli]

How fit do horses need to be to get round a BE80 though? Think mine would be able to skip round one pretty much out of the field!!!

Well, that's the trouble really. An athletic horse (a near tb say) would prob be fit enough if it was worked 6 or 7 days a week, hack or school, for up to an hour.
a really stuffy horse might need a bit more.
if the horse has been very fit in the past (e.g. ex-racehorse) then it wouldn't need any more at all, definitely... 'muscle memory' would do the rest.
it's REALLY hard to give guidelines that would encompass every horse and every rider though!
i'd say for riders you should definitely be able to do more than 5 mins in the two-point seat, with variations for 'setting up' for fences etc, without being at all out of puff. you need to be able to school a horse on the flat for an hour without being puffed out, or for 30 mins sj, using your legs etc, without them feeling like jelly!
btw, i jumped off at the end of a N course many moons ago on a v hot day and my knees gave way, and i landed on my bum. nearly died of shame. NEVER again...! i always get a bit overheated in my bp and have to strip off on the way back to the box, but i'm not knackered, just a bit overcooked! prob look like a tomato though...

 

[star]

Pulborough was quite a long course. 5mins is a lot longer than some courses - BCA (ok 90 level) was only 3.5mins. Have to say pony and me were both a bit tired by the end of our 100 course (not so much that you would notice from the ground but I felt he wasn't pulling through the finish as usual). Ok, 100 is a bit faster than 80 but I still think it needs a fair bit of fitness to get up a reasonable gallop for 5mins and jump 20 odd fences. Guessing there are far fewer TB types at 80 level too and they're generally a lot harder to get and keep fit.

 

[avthechav]

i'd say for riders you should definitely be able to do more than 5 mins in the two-point seat, with variations for 'setting up' for fences etc, without being at all out of puff. you need to be able to school a horse on the flat for an hour without being puffed out, or for 30 mins sj, using your legs etc, without them feeling like jelly!...

^^^^^ this, think for a flatish/ shortish 80 or smaller probabally most horses that are ridden regularly can manage...however the problem comes when the riders cannot manage and start hindering instead!

 

[TarrSteps]

What I dont understand is why people want to do things that are so far out of their comfort zone...apart from the danger factor it really can't be nice!! I understand the need for challenge but to be so far away from comfort zone just cannot be nice!!...rant over

That's the bit I don't get. Do you think people EXPECT to feel that frightened/uncomfortable/in over their heads or do you think they don't know that they are? Or is the fear (or overcoming it, although that only works if you do . . .) the attraction? If people at the lowest level are expecting to feel endangered then that's a whole other educational issue.

I am genuinely curious, not looking to insult or doubt anyone. Okay, eventing is not the safest sport but it shouldn't feel like a gauntlet every time.

 

[star]

actualy what shocked me most about looking at the BE80 results from Pulborough is how many people were eliminated in the SJ. I mean, why on earth would you spend an absolute fortune entering a BE event if you cant get round an 80cm SJ course. And if you cant manage the SJ, how on earth would you expect to cope XC?

I woudn't want to walk a XC course and be so scared I wondered if I'd make it around alive but I am nervous before XC. I like to walk a course and wonder about a few fences, think out the best line etc. and feel it's a challenge technically but I wouldn't want to be wondering if I'd make it over something in one piece.

 

[avthechav]

That's the bit I don't get. Do you think people EXPECT to feel that frightened/uncomfortable/in over their heads or do you think they don't know that they are? Or is the fear (or overcoming it, although that only works if you do . . .) the attraction? If people at the lowest level are expecting to feel endangered then that's a whole other educational issue.

I am genuinely curious, not looking to insult or doubt anyone. Okay, eventing is not the safest sport but it shouldn't feel like a gauntlet every time.

I am on the boundary between BE90 and BE100 at the moment. 90 is starting to feel a bit of an anticlimax (although Calmsden 90 felt ACE at the weekend!!), I have done 2 unaff 100s having schooled a lot over 100 fences and a few novice fences. At no point did the 100s feel scary but I did feel that they were at the top end of my comfort zone...which was fab. I have now gone back to 90 for some consolidation and hopefully continue with progression next year.

I think that because BE used to start at Novice, some people really underestimate 80 and 90. Most horses/ people can jump a 3ft fence and so some think it follows that they can do a course....I was talking to someone who doesnt event but hunts and they called Intro the low of the low and wanted to know why I hadnt qualified for grassroots champs!!! (ive only managed one BE90 DC!!!) Because its the bottom level people think that everyone should be able to manage it...they forget that lots of people actually dont ever manage or want to manage a 3ft course of jumps! I personally found 90 a bit of a benchmark and took a long time at lower heights making sure that I was comfy.

....however I think that ur right and some people are blissfully unaware of how close to the edge they are, or they think that the feeling of terror is normal....

 

[Lolo]

actualy what shocked me most about looking at the BE80 results from Pulborough is how many people were eliminated in the SJ. I mean, why on earth would you spend an absolute fortune entering a BE event if you cant get round an 80cm SJ course. And if you cant manage the SJ, how on earth would you expect to cope XC?

I woudn't want to walk a XC course and be so scared I wondered if I'd make it around alive but I am nervous before XC. I like to walk a course and wonder about a few fences, think out the best line etc. and feel it's a challenge technically but I wouldn't want to be wondering if I'd make it over something in one piece.

Because you can have very bad days! Reg and Al collected a whopping 59 SJ penalties- one more pole away from compulsory retirement. Actually, they never really expected that many- it all went very very wrong and usually they are more than capable than going round in a nice enough way.

I struggle with my fitness- I'm overweight and although I'm slowly trying to lose, it's not ideal. However, I can manage to ride round a 5 minute XC course without sitting in the saddle and my horse was a... testing!... ride XC which makes me wonder how unfit these people actually are?

 

[Starbucks]

Well, that's the trouble really. An athletic horse (a near tb say) would prob be fit enough if it was worked 6 or 7 days a week, hack or school, for up to an hour.
a really stuffy horse might need a bit more.
if the horse has been very fit in the past (e.g. ex-racehorse) then it wouldn't need any more at all, definitely... 'muscle memory' would do the rest.
it's REALLY hard to give guidelines that would encompass every horse and every rider though!
i'd say for riders you should definitely be able to do more than 5 mins in the two-point seat, with variations for 'setting up' for fences etc, without being at all out of puff. you need to be able to school a horse on the flat for an hour without being puffed out, or for 30 mins sj, using your legs etc, without them feeling like jelly!
btw, i jumped off at the end of a N course many moons ago on a v hot day and my knees gave way, and i landed on my bum. nearly died of shame. NEVER again...! i always get a bit overheated in my bp and have to strip off on the way back to the box, but i'm not knackered, just a bit overcooked! prob look like a tomato though...

Tomato, I so sympathise!! I don't seem to sweat through my body during exercise, just my head and face! Attractive! Badger is pretty far from being a TB but is hunting fit every winter and they never seem to totally lose that I guess.

As for myself, if Badger is in a strong mood, which he was in a HT round a TC course last week, I am mega puffed by the end!!! I did a PN once at Aske and he was totally off on one and I just had to let him go over the last few fences (uphill) because I couldn't hold him any more!

 

[TarrSteps]

I TOTALLY understand nerves and even some physical fear. I know people who've ridden at the Olympics who still feel ill before xc so I have no illusions about the rest of us. But it would be interesting to hear from someone who did struggle considerably at any of the events mentioned (not someone who just had a bad day) and find out if they knew they were struggling. I wonder if they read about people like Pippa feeling nervous and think it's the same thing. You'd have to work a bit to kill yourself or permanently damage your horse at BE90 (although it can be done) but it's a much more realistic concern at 4*.

I think a lot of it does have to do with the smaller fences, but not just how people see them, how the horses react, too. The vast majority of horses can jump 3'ish well enough so are well within their comfort zone to jump lower than that with room to help out if the rider needs it. Most horses will not loose their confidence too easily below this point. But above it, a lot of horses know they're starting to get to the end of "easy" (obviously that's not the case for all and I suspect some of the real purlers later come from scopier horses finally meeting their limits) and are more likely to stop or develop some other, obvious and unavoidable issue. So there's a sort of built in break in the proceedings when the horses start to get scared and the riders, even unknowingly, start to feel that, as well.

 

[kerilli]

i don't get that either, at all. never will. WHY do something that totally scares the crap out of you? for the thrill, the relief of having done it, like going on a rollercoaster? not very fair on the horse then... or, so you can boast about it to your mates?
i know someone who is terrified of riding and needs someone to cajole and bully her into doing absolutely everything... makes no sense. why bother? why not just avoid something that terrifies you, and do things you enjoy, are relaxed about, are going to be good at (for the horse's sake!)
Sinead Halpin wrote a really good article about nerves/fear, saying that they are there to make you raise your game... maybe people do think it's normal to be terrified of going xc. i'm sure it's not. it's not an adrenalin trip for everyone either...
just to add... nerves, yes. i've been very nervous before going xc, but that's because i know the consequences for my horse if i miss horrifically at a big fence. i know of 1 4* rider who is green (and worse) before xc. but terrified before going round a small course is a different matter imho.

 

[star]

Because you can have very bad days! Reg and Al collected a whopping 59 SJ penalties- one more pole away from compulsory retirement. Actually, they never really expected that many- it all went very very wrong and usually they are more than capable than going round in a nice enough way.

obviously there's always going to be someone who has a bad day at all levels - when ou look at results there's always a few cricket scores in the SJ and perhaps the odd eliminated but we're talking a third of the class eliminated in the SJing at Pulborough. To me that's an awful lot.

 

[avthechav]

Because you can have very bad days! Reg and Al collected a whopping 59 SJ penalties- one more pole away from compulsory retirement. Actually, they never really expected that many- it all went very very wrong and usually they are more than capable than going round in a nice enough way.

I struggle with my fitness- I'm overweight and although I'm slowly trying to lose, it's not ideal. However, I can manage to ride round a 5 minute XC course without sitting in the saddle and my horse was a... testing!... ride XC which makes me wonder how unfit these people actually are?

Totally agree with this. You defo can have a bad day- me and Av have shockers SJ, she has dangly toes and when it goes wrong and we both get tense they just keep falling, however she has never had dangly toes over XC fences and her XC has been pretty awesome so far..(shouldnt speak too soon, still got one event left and its bound to go wrong now ive said that ).

I think what is shocking is when people are obviously not having fun and consistently have issues time after time, (unlike Al and Reg!)...why do these people not spend their time and money running round smaller courses untill they are feeling happy? I guess the only thing may be lack of facilities...in Gloucestershire we are completely spoilt with a massive range of courses and competitions of all sizes. (Me and Av made our eventing debut over a mini event PC 2ft course - which was lucky coz she ws nuts!! ).

 

[Starbucks]

obviously there's always going to be someone who has a bad day at all levels - when ou look at results there's always a few cricket scores in the SJ and perhaps the odd eliminated but we're talking a third of the class eliminated in the SJing at Pulborough. To me that's an awful lot.

That's quite bad really. I can see why the test of the XC might be too much, but everyone can practice 80cm SJ! BE SJ tracks are particularly simple at lower levels too.

 

[LEC]

I think its very easy to be a preacher about this. I have been there as a rider with no back up and a bit clueless but luckily came from a hunting background. My horse has always been fit enough but I was clueless doing novice. I watch my videos now in horror. All I wanted to do was go up the levels. Unfortunately sometimes the best way to learn is through failure.

It would be interesting to talk to those who have had a disaster doing the BE80 and finding out more about them and what they are going to do now having had a shocker. Its very difficult to judge until you have walked in there shoes.

 

[TarrSteps]

why do these people not spend their time and money running round smaller courses untill they are feeling happy?

Or do some training? I know it's expensive but surely even the cheapest entry fee would buy at least one xc lesson or clinic? And anyway, what is safety worth?

I think it's a bit different if you come from a hunting or PC background or have "horsey" parents. You may not know about eventing per se, but you'll at least know what it feels like to hit the ground at speed. And you'll be used to being dressed down by more experienced horsemen. Many of the same rules apply.

I do also know it's very easy to preach and, as I said earlier, instructors are often faced with "soft soaping" their advice a little so that people continue to at least be open to asking for help. And yes, mistakes have to be made to learn. But mistakes xc can be very, very unfortunate. I don't think it's wrong to discuss these things, even if only so that one person says, "Hmm, I wonder if I'M that person who frightened people watching?" It does seem you're not publicly allowed to tell people they're frightening anymore so maybe this is a job for the internet, now?

 

[star]

I haven't found it that easy to find good XC instruction. I have my regular dressage trainers, there are loads and loads of local clinics with various SJing instructors and lots of clear round up to 3ft3 so plenty of opportunity to practice. XC wise is not so easy though. I've been to a few clinics with different riders but not really felt I've come away having learnt an awful lot about how to ride a XC course. I have hunted a lot but you dont really get accuracy questions out hunting and generally the horse takes you forwards so you dont really need to ride the fence as much. I do feel like I've got round my BE season with a lot of help from a good horse and still dont feel I know enough about how to ride a course and think maybe jumped a step too far with the 100 at Pulborough on Sunday so will be back to 90 until I'm happier with how I'm riding. I can see how those at the bottom of the ladder might be lacking instruction and knowledge and all it takes is some nerves to kick in and the whole thing could go to pot without a very honest horse to take you round.

 

[avthechav]

Maybe it really is just horses for courses (excuse the pun!!)....I personally couldnt and wouldnt compete if I was genuinely terrified...it wouldnt be worth it coz for me the fun has to outweigh the terror, (and boy do I feel terror mostly before the SJ!)...maybe some people get off on that feeling of terror and that is why they do it, or maybe it doesnt affect them in the same way?...or maybe like Lec says this is what inspires some people to improve and gain experience?

The other thing for me is that I am a tight arse and I couldnt afford to pay BE fees if the chances of me having a good day werent higher than the chances of me having a bad day....bad days can, will and do happen but I want to reduce the chances of these days as they are not so much fun!!

 

[LEC]

But how do you know what good training is? It comes back to the issue i see at RC time and time again. A a good number of our RC members only have group lessons and see different instructors all the time so how will they ever get consistent training?

 

[JFTDWS]

I struggle with my fitness- I'm overweight and although I'm slowly trying to lose, it's not ideal. However, I can manage to ride round a 5 minute XC course without sitting in the saddle and my horse was a... testing!... ride XC which makes me wonder how unfit these people actually are?

I'm neither overweight nor horribly unfit, but I couldn't ride around an xc course for 5 minutes in a forward seat over varied terrain without sitting down / possibly dying - because my horse isn't fit enough, isn't forward enough and because I don't practice riding in a forward seat for those sorts of time, or have hills to work on (flat as a pancake round here). I'm not under any delusions that either myself or my horse could handle a BE course of any height - I'm just making the (slightly irrelevant) point that they're not necessarily lardy coach potatoes, just extremely naive and ill-prepared...

 

[TarrSteps]

I'm a bit with avthechav - when I competed a lot I wanted to win, or at least be in the hunt if it all went according to plan. Being cheap can be very motivating!

I do see the problem re instruction but what I'm curious about is what's the answer here? Is there one? When so many people don't ride with other people who compete, where do they learn how to do the day to day? Surely at least for adults, it has to be some of their responsibility to seek that information out?

 

[star]

I'm a bit with avthechav - when I competed a lot I wanted to win, or at least be in the hunt if it all went according to plan. Being cheap can be very motivating!

I do see the problem re instruction but what I'm curious about is what's the answer here? Is there one? When so many people don't ride with other people who compete, where do they learn how to do the day to day? Surely at least for adults, it has to be some of their responsibility to seek that information out?

definitely! I nearly had a major crash in the XC warmup at our 1st event of the season (T/down unaffiliated) because someone was jumping the practice jump the wrong way. She didn't apologise so I went up to her to make sure she realised what she had done wrong as it was so dangerous and she had no idea. Her excuse was it was her first event. Well, it was mine too but I dont think that's any excuse for not knowing the basic, safety rules. How on earth do you get yourself to a ODE without knowing about the flags!

No-one else on my yard competes let alone events so I'm a bit self-taught but before I went out competing I went as a groom for someone and went spectating a lot, I then read the BE handbooks cover to cover as well as being a regular reader of anything relevant on here. I do wonder why you would want to spend a fortune going to an event you are completely not prepared for.

 

[Morganlafaye]

It's hard to be objective about these sorts of threads - everyone brings their own baggage with them, and those of us at the lower levels can't help but feel like the comments are directed at them, even when they're clearly not.

As someone who started competing at BE80/90 for the first time in the past year:

1. I won't touch unaffiliated now, unless it's run by the same people who run the affiliated events at the exact same courses. That way, you know what you're getting - no jumping 2ft 3, then a Novice combination, then a tin bath and a radiator!!

2. I'm still very much learning about riding XC. I expect others at this level are just the same. I had no idea about speed/times when I first started and I've never been taught, not even at clinics run by BE trainers. I'm working it out as I go along, and I've just started to get inside the times now. I took the view better start a little slower and then speed up once we are more confident than go faster than was safe.

3. Years of fast hacking on Arabs has taught me how to stay out of the saddle, but on less forward horses, it can be harder to stay there. I wonder if some people sat heavily because that's the only way they know how to use their legs? There are all shapes and sizes at BE80, and not all of the horses are speed demons.

4. Before my first BE80, I went to several clinics with an accredited trainer - I found it very helpful. BE should encourage people to do more of this at the lower levels. Yes, people have a responsibility to make sure they are prepared and know all the rules, but BE could help a bit! I had to search their site for the name of a trainer, then contact her directly to find out if she was doing any clinics. She was, but not for several months.

Why not run clinics specifically for BE80/90 riders (newbies and riders bringing on new/young horses) and advertise them on the BE site?

5. Horse and rider fitness is important even at the lower levels and BE could do a LOT more to promote fitness in both. I lost nearly 3 stone before I began eventing, I can now run 5 miles quite happily (or gallop for 5 minutes out of the saddle), and my horse, although not super-fit, is fit enough to be galloping happily through the finish of a 5 minute course inside the time. Our time penalties are my fault, due to my inexperience, not because we're not fit enough.

But I got no help/advice from BE to get me to this point.

People turn to BE because they know what they are getting, and the safety standards are higher. But there's a trade off. To encourage those standards, I think BE could do more to train and advise riders at these levels. I know I'd appreciate it!