Lady kills herself after rescue removes dog

I think its incredibly sad :( There are charities such as the Cinnamon trust that help old people by having volunteers come and and walk dogs and help with things like buying pet food etc. Also they can have dogs, cats, goats (anything!!!!) put into temporary foster care in an emergency hospitalisation with vists to hospices etc (hospice regs permitting) so the old person knows their pet hasn't ended up in a cage and still can have contact with their pet up to the end. I am a life member and it is a wonderful charity

This is one of my worst nightmares. If the lady was returned home then I would hope her dementia etc could not have been that bad (though with the state of the NHS these days who knows). Its easy to be critical but it must have been a very hard decision for the charity not to return the dog, and I am sure the poor women will be haunted by what happened.
 
Very sad indeed, but understsnd the rescue point of view if their was a welfare issue, I also wonder how old the dally was when they gave her it, it said she had it 6 years and she was 86, Im assuming the dog was not a pup or very young when given to an 80 year old esp a dally, unless she was/is alot older now.
 
mystiandsunny said:
Interesting reading the comments at the end, when the verdict was announced. All I'd say is, make sure your dog is your own bought and paid for when you become old, albeit with family ready to step in if needed.
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True, but the other side of it is, if something were to happen to me and my OH I'd WANT our dogs to go back to the rescue they came from. Neither of us have family that could take them.

It's very tricky. I feel so very sorry for that woman but a friend of mine is going through something similar with her own mother and the mother's aged dog and it's hell. Her Mum doesn't want to live without the dog but she's not up to caring for it as it now has problems of its own, so it falls to other family members who don't live close by and the dog is not really getting the care it needs or a sensible humane decision if that's the only real option . . .what do you do?
 
Reading between the lines (which we should, since this reeks of Daily Fail witch hunt) it seems to me the dog was taken when the lady was hospitalised. Upon her release she was suffering from mild dementia (according to the psychiatrist on the case). She therefore had her 'clear' moments and her confused moments. I suspect that during her clearer moments she was on the phone to the rescue, making sure her dog was OK, and telling them that she couldn't cope with having the dog back at this moment at time. All perfectly understandable given she was elderly and just released from hospital.

Unfortunately, as anybody who has dealt with people suffering with dementia will know, the sudden turns in thought can be quite abrupt. It would be tragically easy for such a lady to go from 'please look after my dog for a while' to 'you have stolen my dog and wont give him back'. Logic doesn't really need to come into it. Her death is not the fault of a rescue centre. She should have been receiving proper care and attention from health professionals.

I find it a little sick that blame should be turned from those who should have duty of care for the elderly lady to the rescue who took her dog for her whilst she was incapable of looking after it.

I do feel for the woman at the rescue on a personal level. I once pushed a button on my computer that lead to a 17 year old boy killing himself. I was at work. I was following legislation and guidance written by those above me. I did what I thought was best and, had I known the consequences, I would probably have run screaming from the building rather than press that little button. But it was such a routine thing I never gave it a second thought until there was an enquiry. I pressed that button on a daily basis because usually, it was the right thing to do and no harm came of it.

My heart goes out to the lady in question, and everybody involved be they NHS or dog rescuers. Because none of us can guess what another person will do. We have to act on what is in front of us. And speaking from experience some people are going to have a long stretch of sleepless nights ahead of them.

Sorry for the essay, something in the Daily Mail article must have been a bit close to the bone :o
 
So sorry to hear about your experience Pix :(

I don't think anyone goes into working for an animal charity for much else than a desire to help animals (and people). I also really feel for the lady concerned.

Tarrsteps please get your mum to contact the Cinnemon Trust if you haven't done so already: http://www.cinnamon.org.uk/ They are there to try and help people with dog walking etc and have volunteers all around the country. I have no family and my pets welfare is the biggest issue in my life. I WOULD NOT have them go to RSPCA or any of the main stream charities. Instead they will go to the Trust where hopefully they will be fostered into a family, and if not they will NOT live in a cage like an ordinary charity. They will have a proper environment with space, toys, furniture etc and human contact.
 
Just had a look at that link Hollycat - looks like an amazing organisation, I think I am going to donate.

Nothing more heartening than driving round sometimes and clocking a golden oldie and their beloved dog. Bumbling along together! Makes a lump come to my throat.
 
Exactly what Pix said. Sadly it sounds like the poor woman was abandonned by the people who were supposed to be looking after her, rather ironic that the dog was taken better care of than its owner.
 
it is a lovely charity Kitsure - please do donate :) No matter how small it will be very welcome. For my life membership I get 2 lovely newsletters a year with stories about the people and animals they have helped, details of the pets in the 2 farms and all of the people who have raised money for the Trust. Its really nice and personal and I challenge anyone not to have a tear in their eye after reading it. All of my estate (incuding my pets) go to them on my death.
 
A very sad story, but agree with Pix. When my mum was in the early stages of dementia she sometimes forgot to feed her dog. Luckily I visited every day and took over the feeding, but Mum used to go from not feeding Ushi at all to feeding her the most ridiculous things, she put flapjack and ham in a bowl for her once, sounds funny but it was heartbreaking. As Pix says, dementia can cause some real changes in personality, Mum had carers in and she sometimes was so rude to them, and then telling them how wonderful they were.
Some rescues state on their paperwork that they retain ownership of the dog at all times, this may have been the case here in which case the rescue were fully entitled to take him back. It does seem like better communication between all parties would have made a huge difference.
Re the Cinnamon Trust, I am sure they do a great job, but those of who remember the story of Saffi I posted, will remember that because her owner was under 65 (he was 64), when he suffered a massive stroke, Cinnamon Trust said they were unable to help.:(
 
It is very sad.

I have a mother in law who is starting to get worse and worse demetia - she is highly offended and quite aggressive if any of us mention it, and will not go to her doctor for help (she doesn't need help, she didn't forget - we never told her...etc) We have spoken to her doctor, but nothing can be done unless we get her to the doctors... So it is very difficult.

An ex boyfriend's grandfather got a dog from a rescue aged 77, which was three and a lovely dog (medium-large cross). He would have been much better with an older, smaller dog, but his pride made him get the type of dog he'd had as a younger man. His family hadn't the heart to interfere, despite them dealing with the rescue too. The old man quickly deteriorated, and couldn't get out or go far. The dog needed far more exercise than it got. He smoked like a chimney, so the dog was stuck in a smokey house for far too much time. I used to go and walk it every day that I was there. There was a field behind the house that it was let out in regularly. The dog was adored by the man, and treated like royalty, but it wasn't nice to see. The man died a year later (thankfully for the dog) and the dog went to a good family home that it deserved.

I find it hard to blame anyone in this story. Its just very sad all round, and very hard to say how it should have been handled - there are always other factors. Especially if the DM is reporting it.
 
This is the Daily Mail. Ergo, everything you read in it is, if not a lie, sure as hell not the truth.

Rescues are full up and down the country, why on earth would they be taking a dog back in if it wasn't totally necessary? This is a tragic case, but the full facts are very unlikely to be found in the above 'newspaper' (if you can call that bile-smothered, hate-filled rag a newspaper).
 
MurphysMinder said:
Re the Cinnamon Trust, I am sure they do a great job, but those of who remember the story of Saffi I posted, will remember that because her owner was under 65 (he was 64), when he suffered a massive stroke, Cinnamon Trust said they were unable to help.:(
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That is really, really sad to hear :( I know they have helped lots of terminally ill people, well under retirement age so I hope their policy has not changed. Everyone does make mistakes though - I have often been told one thing when another was the case, particularly if a charity has volunteers manning phoneline etc.
 
Funnily MM The Cinnomen trust do get in most cases the estate of the person who's dog is left behind as Im lead to believe, i/e owner signs house/money at the time of seeking their support/help over, we have had a few dealing with them, both animals and family of "the deceased", but the others where not good dealings (but im not going into that) they obs do some good work too.

Sorry to read that pix, sounds like it haunts you some, but as you describe, you where indeed following instruction, you where to know no better, we all could have done something similar without even knowing.
 
Hollycat said:
Tarrsteps please get your mum to contact the Cinnemon Trust if you haven't done so already: http://www.cinnamon.org.uk/ They are there to try and help people with dog walking etc and have volunteers all around the country. I have no family and my pets welfare is the biggest issue in my life. I WOULD NOT have them go to RSPCA or any of the main stream charities. Instead they will go to the Trust where hopefully they will be fostered into a family, and if not they will NOT live in a cage like an ordinary charity. They will have a proper environment with space, toys, furniture etc and human contact.
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Not my Mum, but thank-you, I'll pass that on. Unfortunately my friend's mother lives in a very rural part of Ireland, while my friend lives in the UK so the logistics are daunting, to say the least.

I am hoping that keeping the link to the rescue I got our dogs from actively avoids them ending up somewhere like the RSPCA (they do good work, no offence to anyone) as I'd much rather someone professional stepped in who knows the dogs and is actively invested in rehoming them. Quite a few dogs have come back into their care over the years when owners couldn't have them any more and been fostered/rehomed. I'd much rather that than my dogs ending up with a big, impersonal, already stretched to the limit charity.

And all my sympathy, Pix. Any job with that sort of responsibility is a job we desperately NEED people to do.
 
Booboos said:
Exactly what Pix said. Sadly it sounds like the poor woman was abandonned by the people who were supposed to be looking after her, rather ironic that the dog was taken better care of than its owner.
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Exactly this, at least with rescue animals because they are only ever adopted out it is easier to get them out of a potential welfare problem than an owned animal who may have to end up suffering before anything can happen..... I feel very sorry for all concerned here but the rescue centre cannot be held responsible for putting the welfare of an animal first, the social services/NHS or whoever should have been doing the same for the lady.
 
CAYLA said:
Funnily MM The Cinnomen trust do get in most cases the estate of the person who's dog is left behind as Im lead to believe, i/e owner signs house/money at the time of seeking their support/help over,.......
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"IF" that's true, and I can't emphasise the "If" enough, then that would trouble me, a great deal. Tell me that I've misunderstood you, please.

Alec.
 
CAYLA said:
Funnily MM The Cinnomen trust do get in most cases the estate of the person who's dog is left behind as Im lead to believe, i/e owner signs house/money at the time of seeking their support/help over, we have had a few dealing with them, both animals and family of "the deceased", but the others where not good dealings (but im not going into that) they obs do some good work too.

If this is true how can they be a registered charity?? Surely by doing this, they are charging for services? Personally I've had no involvement with them at all so don't know much about them.
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CAYLA said:
Funnily MM The Cinnomen trust do get in most cases the estate of the person who's dog is left behind as Im lead to believe, i/e owner signs house/money at the time of seeking their support/help over, we have had a few dealing with them, both animals and family of "the deceased", but the others where not good dealings (but im not going into that) they obs do some good work too.

Sorry to read that pix, sounds like it haunts you some, but as you describe, you where indeed following instruction, you where to know no better, we all could have done something similar without even knowing.
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It is interesting that you make such a claim when the Cinnnamon Trust have not had the bad publicity relating to wills that the RSPCA have had. I have sent a copy of the page with your comment to the Cinnamon Trust and no doubt they will be along shortly to either refute your claim or ask you to withdraw it.
 
Sooooo....you can bash the RSPCA on here all the time (not arguing, I'm not a big fan either) but you're threatening to legal Cayla because of something she hasn't actually said or gone into detail on?
Is someone not allowed to have 'not good' dealings with a charity unless it is the RSPCA?
 
CaveCanem said:
Sooooo....you can bash the RSPCA on here all the time (not arguing, I'm not a big fan either) but you're threatening to legal Cayla because of something she hasn't actually said or gone into detail on?
Is someone not allowed to have 'not good' dealings with a charity unless it is the RSPCA?
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No threats whatsoever. The RSPCA have plenty monitoring here and will know what is said almost as it appears. Remember their threats of legal action against German Shepherd rescue for the use of their acronym? If anyone said anything that wans't absolutely true about the RSPCA they would have a libel letter in the next post.

The Cinnamon Trust are most unlikely to be monitoring this site and what was said is likely to cause people to avoid involving them with vulnerable people and their animals, so they must have a right of reply. What is wrong with that?
 
competitiondiva said:
CAYLA said:
Funnily MM The Cinnomen trust do get in most cases the estate of the person who's dog is left behind as Im lead to believe, i/e owner signs house/money at the time of seeking their support/help over, we have had a few dealing with them, both animals and family of "the deceased", but the others where not good dealings (but im not going into that) they obs do some good work too.

If this is true how can they be a registered charity?? Surely by doing this, they are charging for services? Personally I've had no involvement with them at all so don't know much about them.
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Every time a rehoming organisation asks for a minimum donation they are charging a selling price or charging for a service. That is why there so many think they should be required to have a pet shop licence.
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WTF, is going on here then, Fenris?, please yourself what you do, I disclosed no formal details here at all, I simply said "we have had bad dealings" and the information was given to us via the family members involved, so it the CT wanted a word with me, I would simply contact the familys involved and get them to repeat what they told us and what we where involved in.
One of he dealing was actually via a vet! we where involved as a canine rescue by request of a family and vet!

Did you read or understand the "im lead to believe" or did you read "I have evidence"?:rolleyes:
If you know the aims and the running of the charity mentioned, please do share.
Will you be suing MM too:confused:
 
The coroner is quoted as saying that the woman from the dog rescue had to bare an awful lot of responsibility for the old lady's death. I'm guessing that as he had access to medical and social reports, he probably knows a little more about the circumstances than anyone on this forum.
 
Fenris said:
It is interesting that you make such a claim when the Cinnnamon Trust have not had the bad publicity relating to wills that the RSPCA have had. I have sent a copy of the page with your comment to the Cinnamon Trust and no doubt they will be along shortly to either refute your claim or ask you to withdraw it.
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What are they going to ask me to withdraw exactly "what I am led to believe" or that we have had bad dealing" ?

That is like me saying to someone who says "Im lead to believe you refuse to rehome dogs to people who are over 80",(me) "well we don't so withdraw your comment" :D instead of saying well, "no! we have and NEVER refused to rehome to people over 80".
OR like me saying to someone who said they had a bad dealing with us "to withdraw" the comment, instead of saying, "oh right, what was the bad dealing"?

This is a strange thread.
As CC said there are full on RSPCA bashings going on and FULL DETAILS given out, not a "Im LED TO BELIEVE" :D and as far as Im aware there was only 1 signifigant inheritance thing going on with them, was there not?
Freedom of speech and all that, I cannot force people to not believe what your are led to believe;)
 
competitiondiva said:
CAYLA said:
Funnily MM The Cinnomen trust do get in most cases the estate of the person who's dog is left behind as Im lead to believe, i/e owner signs house/money at the time of seeking their support/help over, we have had a few dealing with them, both animals and family of "the deceased", but the others where not good dealings (but im not going into that) they obs do some good work too.

If this is true how can they be a registered charity?? Surely by doing this, they are charging for services? Personally I've had no involvement with them at all so don't know much about them.
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Im not sure CD, thats why I said im "lead to belive" Im not sure if people can offer to give an inheritance and it can be accepted b4 they die/pass and thats how the RSPCA had one left thats there was a big story about.
I am however a charity can say "why don't you look after goats for along time to come and leave an inheritance after you're gone to our "goat herding" charity for example:D
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