Lame whilst on Bute - please may I have your thoughts

Ravenwood

Ravenwood

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My mare (16/17 yrs) has been getting a bit stiff over time and recently she was definitely lame in front. I got the vet out who was very doom and gloom. He diagnosed four very arthritic fetlocks, told me she wouldn't come sound and that most people realise when their horse has reached the end of its life, that turning out a horse retired even in a little bit of pain is a slow death sentence etc etc - I thought he was ready to shoot her there and then! :eek:

But I decided that before I drop her off at the hunt kennels, I would investigate a little further :cool: The next day he came out and took xrays of her fetlocks and down to the hoof.

The xrays showed that actually the joints weren't in bad nick at all for a horse of her age and workload and no ringbone/sidebone or navicular :D. But they did show that the ligaments, through wear and tear had caused bony growths to the exterior of the fetlock joints. He suspected that inflammation had caused the onset of lameness.

I should point out here that Lottery's front legs fall a little short in the "good conformation" department :o. Particularly her off fore you can very visibly see that the leg starts to twist in from the knee down but straightens up again at the fetlock - this obviously causes excess stress to the joint, coupled with the fact that she is a big boned hunter type mare and all our hacking/hunting is done over rough terrain (moorland).

I am not sure that you can see this very clearly from these pictures http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=402998&highlight=lottery probably the one of her grazing (with my daughter picking off her chestnuts :rolleyes:) shows what I am talking about.

Anyway - the vet put her on an intensive course of bute for two weeks to reduce the inflammation, told me to leave her for another 2 or 3 days, then ride and see what she is like.

Tomorrow is her last sachet of bute but yesterday when I watched her trotting off across the field (she is currently out 24/7) she was most definitely still lame :( and again today :( (Although when I turned her out into the big field with the lush grass and she galloped off bucking and farting there didn't look much wrong then! ;)

But on a serious note I am extremely worried - surely a horse who is still lame on bute can't be good :( If this doesn't work I don't know what steps to take next.

I absolutely adore this mare, she is perfect for me and she looks so fit and healthy at the moment but she hates being out of work and I really don't think she would cope with retirement (looking on the worst case scenario here).

So, I would be really interested on your thoughts on this - what would you do in this situation? What steps would you take next?

Good grief - what an essay!! If you managed to read all that you deserve a medal!! ;)
 
how much bute is she on? Juts try upping the dosage and see if she comes sounder. I have a mare who is lame on bute but her problem is foot balance, she's not lame as in pain but when not shod properly won't appear sound as really has one peg leg. Get her shoes right and she's sound as a pound. The best thing you can do for any lameness is rest, and if she has boney growths these need to be allowed time to settle, of course if they are rubbing or pressing on any essentials then I think its time you made your decision sooner rather than later.
 
Bumping you back up to the top because I want to hear people's thoughts on this too. I have a mare with arthritis in her fetlocks and am just about to start a course of bute.

Best of luck x
 
Sorry I really don't have much advice but just wanted to say I know what you're going through :( My boy is slightly lame (obviously lame in trot) on his left hind - he has had steroid injections into his hock but the joint is fused now that they can't do it anymore. I was advised to put on bute but he was no more sound with it than without :(

Personally, I feel that my boy is still very happy, he gallops about like a loony when he feels like it and as he is only 14 I am hoping that in time he may come sound but I think I am being optimistic :) I don't feel that still being lame even on bute means the end of his days - he probably will never be ridden again but while he still looks happy in his life I won't pts, although the minute he shows any signs of having enough I will reconsider obviously. I just see it as my job to keep him as comfortable as possible at the moment.

Put it this way - I am very lame but painkillers keep me comfortable (although not sound) and I certainly don't want to be shot just yet :D
 
I would try upping the dosage to see if she will come sound, implying it is pain related lameness. But if not could it be a mechanical lameness?
My veteran was mechanically lame for the final four(ish) years of his life. His knees had excess bone in them from arthritis which prevented them from bending correctly, making him move in a lame way. It was unlikely that he was in any pain (occasionally came of the bute when the ground was right) but just in case he was kept on 1/2-1bute a day. The bute also helped with any inflamation & allowed him to live out a happy retirement. He wasnt ridden during this time, but this was primarily as I went to uni & didnt have anyone to ride him & he was already in his 30s at that point anyway, im sure he would have loved to have been ridden, but soon adapted to his life looking after his mares!
Sorry to hear you having such a rough time with yours, its so frustrating when your not sure whats wrong :( Good luck getting to the bottom of it!
 
Thanks natalia - she started off with 4 per day, then 2 per day and now down to 1 per day to finish off the fortnight.

I am very fortunate to have an excellent blacksmith who does a fantastic job on her feet (the vet even commented on this) so I can rule that out.

Previous to this lameness she has had most of the summer off anyway plus did very little hunting last season due to a change in my own personal circumstances.

I could up the bute and I am sure with enough of it the lameness would go but I don't think that is a long term solution - or would you up the bute for a couple more weeks and then see how she is?
 
Thanks for your replies - its so comforting just to chat about it really :)

Put it this way - I am very lame but painkillers keep me comfortable (although not sound) and I certainly don't want to be shot just yet
Click to expand...

LOL - thats what my 70+ yr old YO said ;)
 
I would up the bute dose and then maybe try something like the global herbs butex, we have used this and had good results. Any thing like cortaflex may also help her out, and often makes a real difference to older and stiffer horses. Maybe speak to your vet and see if she's insured if you could get a course of corta vet from them on the insurance? Anything is worth a try and I think as long as she's happy in herself and not dull or miserable then way not keep her in light work if thats what she likes doing albeit on a course of bute?
 
Thank you again - I really do appreciate everyone's replies.

I have just bought her some Naf Superflex and Codlivine (cod liver oil does wonders for my jointy labrador!)

She is not insured but seeing as she hasn't cost me a penny in vets fees over the last five years I am perfectly prepared to shell out and try anything for her.

I guess it will be a case of trying various things - but I have to say that I am totally gutted at the thought of her retiring or only being in very light work - poor mare :(
 
my lad has had some big problems this year, alot of people said to shoot him. we have had him in a small (ish) paddock most of they year and he's been on bute when he's looked obviously lame in walk, he's on vegetable oil and no bute stuff. he's come sound enough to ride and is loving his life again. i've also taken him barefoot because the shoes were obviously crippling him (noticeable difference within an hour of shoes coming off).
like your girl, my lad has hunted hard and is a big lad too.

are you able to restrict the paddock size and stop her 'hooning' around with her friends and up the bute for a week or 2 to see how she does?
 
Well JB has arthritis in one hind fetlock had the injections £600 for 3 came sound. But over the last year unable to get shoes on hind so decided to go barefoot. He's on two danilon every other day not really fully sound enough to do more than the odd plod around the village one or twice a month. He's basically retired now. He seems happy enough although he used to enjoy sport endurance and hacking. Vet came to check him for the continuation of the danilon and said up it if he needs it:( I haven't yet but may be doing shortly. He seems ok in himself time will tell. I feel awful now I've read what your vet said about a slow death sentence. My other horse was retired for 2 1/2 years before I had to make that decision (although to be honest the last 6 months he had lost any lust for life if you know what I mean):( Will talk on Saturday.
 
i used super-sound, kept my boy sound for 6 mths without bute. It costs about 26 euro for a bottle here in ireland, which will only last a week, as you start off on a high dose and then go back to a maintainence dose. so gets cheaper as it will last for about 3 weeks. It worked very well for me.
 
F - don't panic, I've just been gong through all this with Harley - diagnosed by physio as forming bone spavins in both hocks, vet said he was too old, must be arthritis, farrier also says bone spavins! Anyway, he had two bute a day for a week, then about a month on one a day, now down to half. Crucially, he also has Devils Claw Flex and Naf Superflex, but I think the thing that has made the most difference are his Bioflow magnetic boots. I was putting them on at night and off by day, but henryhorn said to leave them on for quite along time - so I did, over a week, alternated between front and hinds, and all the heat has gone from the hocks - now back to 36 hours on 12 hour off. Have done some cautious (on my part!) walking hacks, tiny bit of trot, but yesterday he had obviously had enough, and carted me at a hand gallop all the way along the byway, keen as hell, sound all the way, and much more importantly, still sound the next day and still no heat.

After the first fortnight, I couldn't really see much difference in Harley, but two months down the line he's the horse he was many years ago, happy, charging about the field, playing, and he's nicer to ride, as he moves levelly again, so I would say you need to wait a while before you panic, PM me if you need support hun (or if you want to swop her for a slightly wild spotty filly!) x
 
Riding High - thank you, she only gallops off when I turn them out into the big field every evening - the grass is still very long and lush in there so I then put them in the grazed down field during the day. She had her shoes taken off the previous summer when she went to stud (didn't take) and poor thing could hardly put one foot infront of the other - even after two months!

Flowerlady - thanks - looking forward to Saturday :) Sorry to hear about JB though - its so sad to watch them get old :(

Fitzaurd - thanks for that recommendation. Do you mind if I ask what happened after the 6 months? Did it not continue to work or were other factors involved?
 
Thanks STR - fantastic news about Harley - he is such a lovely horse :) But you can keep Ellie :p

Glad to hear you use Superflex (seeing as you are in the know what with your profession ;) )

I will look into those boots - hadn't thought of that.

Fingers crossed eh that she does come sound eventually.
 
As you know, Holz has been lame too - is now back in work, although we haven't trotted yet...

She had ups and downs in her recovery, and had bute for the first few weeks, which was a pain to get down her neck. She now has Superflex (has been on it nearly a year now, and does not feel 18 at all) at 3 scoops a day, which is 1 1/2 the pony dose, as she is very hard on herself in the way she moves. Alongside that she has Devils Claw, which I double dosed for the times she got worse. It was ment to be a temporary measure, but I'm not sure I dare take her off it now....

Silly as it sounds, I also never let her get cold, damp or shivery which I am CERTAIN helps keep her feeling young. She also wears her stable bandages every night from around November onwards.
 
CM - did you ever get to the bottom of what was making Holly lame? I know the thermograph showed a hot spot in her hoof but was it ever diagnosed?

Yay - another one having good results from Superflex - lets hope it works for Lottery too :)

I used Devil's Claw No Bute on my jointy lab but it didn't make any difference to him at all - cod liver oil has given the best results but just bought him some doggy version superflex too ;)
 
I haven't read the replies so I may be repeating others.
I had a 24 yr old mare who had always had pigeon toes since we got her aged 4, despite the best efforts of our remedial farrier. She developed arthritic-type lameness - this is several years ago and no-one actually thought to investigate the exact cause. She certainly made things worse by jumping over an electric fence to get to her friend. She was on bute which got so that it made no difference to her even on an increased dose. In desperation days before she would have been pts I rang the local Bioflow agent and got some magnetic boots delivered that evening. She wore them for 24 hrs, she was in overnight and out all day. The next evening (she had worn them for about 24 hrs by then) this mare who had been hobbling on all four legs TROTTED in. She wore the boots for 12 hrs per day, usually overnight, for the next 3 months and was field sound, keeping up with the herd. Unfortunately we then lost her to a stroke but I don't think that had anything to do with the magnets.
 
Even if you trust your vet don't rush.
Friends horse was totally written off but she refused to give up. Cortaflex did a wonderful job and further investigation turned out that she was lame not due to pain but she too had 'funny' legs-not great confirmation-and over the years had developed her own 'gait' to compensate.
A horse in pain will let you know its not happy when you look into it eyes.
Everything crossed for you.
x
 
Pearlsasinger - thanks for that - just a couple of posts up from you, Spot the Risk has also recommended magnetic boots so I will definitely have a look at those :)

Woopsiid - thank you, she has all the time in the world with me, I am in no rush.

Its lovely to hear of so many stories that have ended well :)
 
Re the boots - I researched into which were best, and the over riding opinion was Bioflow - I had an old pair of the wraps which have to be bandaged in place, but bought a pair of the brushing boots to make life easier.

No Bute - if you have to go down a devils claw route again, the New Zealand Herbals Devils Claw Flex (look on the Equus Health website) is a much stronger tincture - 2:1 instead of the more common 5:1.
 
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