Lameness cause guesses...!

[FlyingCircus]

Pony in question is rising 14. He has been into the vets for a lameness investigation and they couldn't see lameness nor was it shown on their gait analysis other than the odd step.

However he is very short infront. He has seen a physio and they agree he doesn't seem to have a problem in the shoulder causing this. He's happy flexing his leg out from the shoulder and also bending the knee like in a flexion test.

Vet said he tested positive on fores with hoof testers. Thought potential lami caused by cushings, as pony is (was) otherwise very fit.

Bloods came back normal.

Over the weeks he has marginally improved on field rest. Even though he doesn't understand the "rest" part.

My vet has said next step could be to xray/ultrasound up the legs but hard to know if you've found the cause or a red herring when hes not starting from a positive nerve block.

The hoof seems a reasonable assumption but has xrayed with no resounding results. Its almost as if pony is walking on his tiptoes infront so therefore shortening the stride.

Any ideas ?‍?

 

[scats]

One of the soft tissue structures in the foot or going into the foot would be my guess. A tear in DDFT or collateral ligament perhaps.

 

[HobleytheTB]

Maybe MRI the feet? Collateral ligament strain?

 

[ycbm]

Has he been nerve blocked on one front foot?

 

[splashgirl45]

thats how my mare was walking, toe down first to avoid heel and it was ligament damage, the next stage was MRI and then medicate but as she had cushings and was in her 20's , i didnt do that and just rested her and never rode on hard rutty ground. she was absolutely fine on smooth hard surfaces like the road and fine when ground was soft, i only hacked so she didnt do any schooling or jumping..

 

[ester]

by bloods being normal do you mean for cushings too?

I'd want to block a foot before doing anything else.

 

[FlyingCircus]

Sorry, yes bloods have been tested for cushings and came back normal so no cushings present.

He hasn't been nerve blocked on one front hoof, no. I'm a little surprised vet hasnt suggested this as now you guys mention it, it makes perfect sense! I think we are both at the "regroup and refocus" stage after thinking it could be lami caused my cushings initially!

 

[ycbm]

I would stake some money on it that if they block one front, doesn't matter which, he will be lame on the other, and is actually bilaterally lame in front, from your description.
.

 

[FlyingCircus]

thats how my mare was walking, toe down first to avoid heel and it was ligament damage, the next stage was MRI and then medicate but as she had cushings and was in her 20's , i didnt do that and just rested her and never rode on hard rutty ground. she was absolutely fine on smooth hard surfaces like the road and fine when ground was soft, i only hacked so she didnt do any schooling or jumping..

He's still landing heel first, rather than toe or even flat.

As he's 14 I'm starting to question what rehab I'd reasonably do with him...I dont think a long stint of box rest would be fair on him for example.

 

[FlyingCircus]

I would stake some money on it that if they block one front, doesn't matter which, he will be lame on the other, and is actually bilaterally lame in front, from your description.
.

Would it be worth skipping the blocks and going for an MRI of both his front hooves? I very much suspect you're right and the fact is is bilateral is why he appears sound to someone who doesn't know him and isn't used to his paces.

He's insured, but still like to take the most logical approach! Although I would need to check my small print to see if MRIs are included as I think they can be quite costly?

 

[ester]

is he shod?
is he landing properly heel first or toe flipping?

There's so much soft tissue in the hoof that I wouldn't read much into xrays not showing anything interesting if he reacts to testers.

I'd suspect blocks would make the MRI more justifiable for the insurers, and cheap/quick/easy to do.

 

[splashgirl45]

14 isnt that old really , i knew mine had cushings and medication carried the risk of laminitis so thats why i didnt go that route. heel first with short strides could suggest laminitis, has he been tested for cushings?

 

[ycbm]

Would it be worth skipping the blocks and going for an MRI of both his front hooves? I very much suspect you're right and the fact is is bilateral is why he appears sound to someone who doesn't know him and isn't used to his paces.

He's insured, but still like to take the most logical approach! Although I would need to check my small print to see if MRIs are included as I think they can be quite costly?

I'm not sure the insurer would pay if you can't demonstrate lameness first and nothing shows up. You could be stuck with a very big bill!

 

[FlyingCircus]

is he shod?
is he landing properly heel first or toe flipping?

There's so much soft tissue in the hoof that I wouldn't read much into xrays not showing anything interesting if he reacts to testers.

I'd suspect blocks would make the MRI more justifiable for the insurers, and cheap/quick/easy to do.

Yes he's shod all round. He's landing properly heel first as opposed to toe flipping (to my slightly educated eye!)

You guys are probably right RE the blocks and justifying to the insurer.

Interestingly he came up lame trotting up for the physio. He tripped as if he had trodden on a stone then walked and trotted up lame on that hoof after. He was unsound like that for probably a week or so whilst he was rested (I thought it was a stone bruise) and then he seemed to improve but actually the "improvement" is that he is now short in both fronts.

Horses, who'd have them!

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I would stake some money on it that if they block one front, doesn't matter which, he will be lame on the other, and is actually bilaterally lame in front, from your description.
.

I would be thinking this as well I would nerve block before going in blindly with x rays and scans

 

[FlyingCircus]

14 isnt that old really , i knew mine had cushings and medication carried the risk of laminitis so thats why i didnt go that route. heel first with short strides could suggest laminitis, has he been tested for cushings?

He has and bloods came back negative for cushings.

It's not that old but he has had a hard life before I got him at 7. So I'd rather field rest him/retire him if he can be field sound. Maybe with a view to riding him later if he comes sound but that's not really my end goal if he turns out to be more badly broken than something a short box rest etc could resolve.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Yes he's shod all round. He's landing properly heel first as opposed to toe flipping (to my slightly educated eye!)

You guys are probably right RE the blocks and justifying to the insurer.

Interestingly he came up lame trotting up for the physio. He tripped as if he had trodden on a stone then walked and trotted up lame on that hoof after. He was unsound like that for probably a week or so whilst he was rested (I thought it was a stone bruise) and then he seemed to improve but actually the "improvement" is that he is now short in both fronts.

Horses, who'd have them!

My horse became lame in front worse on one foot they thought it was laminitis but after x rays he just had very thin soles, so it's not always something terrible that requires lots of rest and treatment.

What are feet like as in balance and how he is shod?

 

[ester]

I'm unconvinced shod should be landing heel first.

don't start catastrophising about box rest just yet

what was his sole depth on xray?

 

[FlyingCircus]

Don't have his xrays yet, so couldn't tell you re sole depth. Vet has said he is impressed with farriers shoeing as I did question it initially (he has rolled the toe considerably more than I am used to).

He has always been abit footy on sharp gravelly tracks and have been told by a number of farriers and just recently my vet that he has thin soles.

Would the thin soles not always have been an issue though? I'm not sure why he would have suddenly come up short if that were the case and if it were, what would next steps look like?

I've tried to take him barefoot in the past but he didn't stand up to it even with very slow (and boring...!!) conditioning of his feet across varying terrains and surfaces. I have a podiatrist who does my mare who I have debated asking him about my gelding but am a bit nervous his feet will try to disintegrate on me again! Vet suggested he may have HWSD, but said not worth testing as he's a gelding and can just manage him as if he does have it.

 

[FlyingCircus]

And isn't catastrophising at the smallest gait change a prerequisite of being a horse owner? ??

 

[ycbm]

I'm unconvinced shod should be landing heel first

I thought the same, he probably should be flat not heel first in shoes. Heel first in shoes might suggest toe pain, and we'd be back to laminitis again.

 

[FlyingCircus]

I guess next step is talk to vet about blocking one fore hoof and going from there?!

And going back to look at some slow mo videos of his hoof landings!

For what it's worth, I'm treating him as if he has lami at the moment. He's on a big cushioned bed up to the door with low sugar forage. He doesn't seem to be a classic candidate, but just incase!

 

[ILuvCowparsely]

Pony in question is rising 14. He has been into the vets for a lameness investigation and they couldn't see lameness nor was it shown on their gait analysis other than the odd step.

However he is very short infront. He has seen a physio and they agree he doesn't seem to have a problem in the shoulder causing this. He's happy flexing his leg out from the shoulder and also bending the knee like in a flexion test.

Vet said he tested positive on fores with hoof testers. Thought potential lami caused by cushings, as pony is (was) otherwise very fit.

Bloods came back normal.

Over the weeks he has marginally improved on field rest. Even though he doesn't understand the "rest" part.

My vet has said next step could be to xray/ultrasound up the legs but hard to know if you've found the cause or a red herring when hes not starting from a positive nerve block.

The hoof seems a reasonable assumption but has xrayed with no resounding results. Its almost as if pony is walking on his tiptoes infront so therefore shortening the stride.

Any ideas ?‍?

Like others I would go for MRI scan



My mare was lame and her pelvis going out more than normal , which started our examinations and long journey nerve blocks etc and found Mild navicular. Referred to RVC which proved it including collateral ligament damage, + she had acute laminitis, grazing restricted and she was rested in the field but then field accident ended up as Check ligament. Now currently on her 5th month box rest, now sound on lunge and walk and trot, next scan 2 weeks and move on.
I would def go further, as the lameness needs investigating more.

Also with all this wet weather, like my pony going lame, turned out her soles were soft so use hoof hardener

 

[brighteyes]

Sub-clinical laminitis?

 

[Lurfy]

another for sub clinical laminits

 

[MuffettMischief]

I would stake some money on it that if they block one front, doesn't matter which, he will be lame on the other, and is actually bilaterally lame in front, from your description.
.

this is exactly what has just happened to one of ours. I knew he didn’t feel right, my vet trusted my ability to know my own horse and referred me into Local big hospital. the vets all looked at me like I was mad at the hospital as he was totally ‘sound’ in his work up until the nerve blocks. He was bilaterally lame and after an MRI, showed strain of collateral ligaments in both feet.

 

[Red-1]

Are there any crevices at all in the frog? Even small crevices can hide infection inside.

In this country, people, including farriers and vets, are just so used to seeing frogs with crevices that they don't flag them as a possible issue.

The weather has been wet then dry, and that would be an easy fix.

 

[SEL]

I'm another with a horse that looked only a tiny bit lame on a circle but was actually bilaterally lame in front. I couldn't afford the MRI but x ray showed mild navicular damage so I'll assume soft tissue damage. Never shod.

She slipped her muzzle the other day and was definitely more tender on concrete so don't rule out sub clinical lami with this odd weather we're having. She's negative EMS & cushings by blood test although I'm going to ask for the more sensitive cushings test because I'm not convinced.

If you can MRI under insurance I'd go for it

 

[ShowJumperBeckii]

Mine went randomly lame early January with rest improved but vet wasn’t sure as would be sound then lame in the same visit.. full work up found nothing so off for mri which foundserve pedal bone bruising on right and navicular bruising to left which has then caused inflammation to the collateral ligaments, now on rest and rehab which is 10 sessions cat 4 laser with tildren and spider shoes! And inject coffins in 12 weeks (after diagnosis)
Must add! The first nerve block at the yard didn’t fully block the foot and we had no heat no swelling so was at a lost than it may be the foot as well as something else! I’m not insured yet without the mri we wouldn’t of know! So def worth it if possible

 

[asmp]

It sounds similar to mine - hard to see lameness but I knew something wasn’t right. Short choppy trot. Had his hooves x-rayed and it turned out he had calcified side bones. Farrier said he wasn’t surprised because of the shape of his hooves.

ETA - mine isn’t insured and the x-rays weren’t too expensive